Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Comment on my technique? And testing slow motion recording

My cell phone has a slow motion video recording option so I did a quick recording. Any issues with my technique? I've mostly self re-taught as an adult so I bet there'll be some issues.

1/4 speed, playing kind of at my maximum tempo

There was no audio recorded, but I'm sure you guys can figure out what I'm playing :P

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_r4kisDzXg
[/video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_r4kisDzXg

And here's a normal speed video at around the limit of my tempo (same real-time tempo as slowmo video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=razBgyYRQEA

Excuse the lack of musicality and mistakes, I'm mostly looking for comments on technique. Is my arm height, wrist motions, finger straightness, etc. OK?

Don't forget to re-order those checks!

LOL!

First, of all, how can you separate technique from musicality? Isn't technique the means by which you can be more musical? So playing a piece of music without musicality means you are 'technically' lacking. In other words, you need to learn techniques on how to play this musically.

Also, do you feel any fatigue in the arms wrists or hands when you play this? Or any tingling sensations? Usually it's those things that prompts someone to ask about their technique, because when those things exist there is something wrong that prevents them from playing musically and with freedom.

I would like you to watch these videos, watch closely at the pianists' hands, and then ask yourself this same question again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpZr_cbYbXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdCObCqE7ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRPEiCfU7kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pye9RgJ9_NY

I definitely see some tension. Your middle knuckle is very high, and bent at a right angle at least part of the time, and your ring and pinky fingers are often straight. At the slow speeds, it looks like there is very little individual motion helping you strike your ring finger, and that could be leading to some issues if you try to push through this tempo.

What would be more interesting to see would be a video of you trying to push through the tempos, to a point where you fail, because then the technique issues will be very apparent.

These two examples are really interesting in that there is a huge difference in the amount of movement between Ashkenazy and Ohlsson. Can someone comment on that (a significant amount of rotation from Ohlsson)? It's not that there is none from Ashkenazy but it's not very noticable.

I'm not sure that there is. Video quality, angle of recording, and distance from the hands likely interfere with our perception of movement. They certainly make very similar movements, but I think the degree to which they move is more difficult to ascertain with any certainty.

If you look closely, you can see the similar movements they are making, and you can also see that their fingers are striking the keys in similar places. Differences in degree of movement probably would have more to do with the anatomy of their playing mechanism than discrepancies of technique.

1) I mainly said that because the tempo I recorded was pretty fast for me so there's some mistakes and dynamics aren't great. It'll take more practice for me to work up the tempo, but I'm interested in knowing if there's anything terribly wrong with my technique before I keep practicing this.

2) Yes, it is tiring to practice this, especially on heavier actions like the Kawai MP-10 I have or my grand. After 20-30 minutes of playing my pinky muscle area is fatigued and so is my forearm. But I think it's OK since there's no tingling and it's not painful. It seems like it's just training the muscles, especially since it's fast and the notes need to be played forte.

One can have technical problems but possess great musicality. And one can have great technique but be lacking in musicality(a common criticism of many of today's pianists, although not one I agree with).

Thus, although the goal of great technique should be to be able to do whatever one wants at the piano(hopefully something highly musical), I think the two can be separated and studied separately.

Probably true. I've also been playing this so it grabbed my attention.

I didn't watch your video, but know this etude very well. If there is fatigue (and you say there is), then your technique isn't yet strong enough to play it at the tempo you're using. I can't stress the importance of slowwwwww (and I mean extremely slow) practice with this etude. The fatigue doesn't come from the speed of your tempo, but from the fact that you've not yet trained yourself for the acrobatics this piece requires. Speed will come (and you'll find it will come surprisingly easy once you've got all the notes under your fingers completely at a slow tempo). Once you're able to get through it at a slow tempo error free move the tempo up gradually day by day. If errors crop up consistently then you go back to slow practice. Practice without the pedal as well, which really forces you to work slowly and precisely. Once everything is solidly there and you're at tempo there won't be any fatigue and the arpeggios will roll off like water. Believe it, or not, it will feel "easy".

Fatigue is the precursor to tingling or pain. This is your body telling you that you are tense. Please take this down to a tempo where you don't have any fatigue, no matter how slow that is. There is no shame in slow practice, even the best pianists need to do it. Playing with fatigue however, will result in long-term issues.

This is also a big indicator that your technique needs help. I see a lot of added movement in the fingers that are unnecessary. Take a look at the videos Derulux posted and compare with yours. Work on keeping the fingers that aren't pressing a key relaxed as you play this SUPER slow. Gradually work up to tempo over a period of weeks while maintaining the relaxation you feel at slower tempi.

But the problem is that the OP cannot be musical because his technique is preventing him, and that was the purpose for my question.

I think you might be playing with some tension.

I don't like the sound of the fatigue you are describing. I'd suggest stopping or slowing down at the very first feeling of fatigue. As you no doubt know, this is NOT at all the same as bench presses at the gym where old gym rats have the adage, "no pain no gain."

A few things about your body mechanics to consider (although from a fixed angle and limited view I'm not certain about any of these): your left wrist looks tight and arched, arms might be too low in relation to the keyboard (try raising the bench), RH hand and wrist look tense. Also monitor tension at your neck and shoulders (which are out of the video of course).

Actually, I think the problem is that the OP cannot simply play the notes at anywhere tempo yet, and I think that's his concern. He's far from the point of trying to get the piece at a high musical level even though he may realize it's unmusical.

Fatigue usually comes from prolonged muscle usage. I feel piano playing is a lot more of quick muscular bursts than continual force. I can see why your pinky muscles would be tired. If you look at your pinky finger, it is constantly held up and the last joint is actually hyperextending. I can't even do that, but if I try, it automatically makes the rest of my hand stiff as well.

It doesn't come from prolonged muscle usage. It comes, because those muscles aren't trained yet. One with solid technique won't feel any fatigue, whatsoever, when playing this etude.

I find this to be so true. The old adage "no pain, no gain" doesn't apply in piano, and "pain" extends to the precursors to it such as fatigue, tingling (at or away from piano), numbness, achiness, etc.

If anyone feels these sensations, please, listen to your body. It's telling you that you are not playing this right. It happens to use all, but the difference is some of us will recognize it for what it is and work it out of our playing, and others will ignore and risk injury.

So you're saying that someone with the right technique but hasn't been using the right hand pinky as heavily as it is used in this etude, can start learning it, practice it for hours at a time at high tempo, and not feel any fatigue? i.e. there's no training of the muscles to get stronger in preparation for playing this without fatigue?

Yes, my arm did look a little low in the video. But if I raise my bench then I feel like my back might be slouching more, since I don't need to sit up straight.