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Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540637
05/17/16 11:58 AM
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Fer De Armas Offline
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I agree with you Daniel, Roland FP30 key action altough i feel a bit flabby and wobble compared with my MP7, it is really an excellent in touch and finger to sound connection due to the third sensor and the additional key sensing scanner for the SN piano sound. Is very sad the detune piano sound problem. Cheers.

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Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Lester Burnham] #2540645
05/17/16 12:14 PM
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mischeli Offline
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"What innovative things have Yamaha been doing in the sub 1k digital piano sector in recent years?"

Why to do this?
It's a machine for all times...

-This is just an indicator of the quality of Yamaha-Px

-The sample is a sample and digital piano is digital piano. For the price below 1000 usd details are not important, but final overall sound is important. Whether it actually works or not. Before the new generation of expensive "digital" stage pianos, Yamaha-p was a-class (with 3X higher price). p-Serie has always been able to compete with a-class. And its mechanical quality and the sound quality has not changed much in the last 15 years...

I like to use the latest VST pianos but I can always fully express myself on a Yamaha p-x, with "mid-level" sample quality...and i'll always be able to.

Last edited by mischeli; 05/17/16 12:32 PM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: JoeT] #2540652
05/17/16 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
Roland didn't really sample a new piano for an entry-level DP, or did they?

The final pitch of a sample is always determined by the firmware, regardless of the sample source. So it can be fixed by a firmware update. And should be if there is an issue.


If really is a problem and it can be fixed by a firmware update, I hope they do it.

So far I can't test it so I can't confirm the problem is true or false. That's why I didn't yet include it on the list. My list is out of date.


Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540662
05/17/16 01:12 PM
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Fer De Armas Offline
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Daniel, please excuse me, are you tried the Roland FP30?...

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Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540670
05/17/16 01:32 PM
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Daniel,

Just one person out of the (presumably) many thousands of FP-30 owners has noticed this 'out of tune' nonsense.

Not one person on here has mentioned it, and if you search as hard as you like, the only mention you will find is on that site. Consider that the operator of that site sells digital pianos but doesn't have a Roland account and read into that whatever you like.

I think you need to use your own judgement rather than reading too much into a comment by one not entirely unbiased reviewer.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540677
05/17/16 02:10 PM
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Last edited by mischeli; 05/17/16 02:11 PM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Fer De Armas] #2540687
05/17/16 02:55 PM
05/17/16 02:55 PM
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Lester Burnham Offline
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Daniel, please excuse me, are you tried the Roland FP30?...

Have you, Fer?

Because you seem happy to wade in with an opinion on it, so I really hope you have some experience with it.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2540688
05/17/16 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mischeli
"What innovative things have Yamaha been doing in the sub 1k digital piano sector in recent years?"

Why to do this?
It's a machine for all times...

-This is just an indicator of the quality of Yamaha-Px

-The sample is a sample and digital piano is digital piano. For the price below 1000 usd details are not important, but final overall sound is important. Whether it actually works or not. Before the new generation of expensive "digital" stage pianos, Yamaha-p was a-class (with 3X higher price). p-Serie has always been able to compete with a-class. And its mechanical quality and the sound quality has not changed much in the last 15 years...

I like to use the latest VST pianos but I can always fully express myself on a Yamaha p-x, with "mid-level" sample quality...and i'll always be able to.

You didn't actually answer the question, so I'll repeat it: compared with sub 1k models from Casio, Kawai and Roland, what innovations have Yamaha made in their sub 1k digital pianos, in the last 2 or 3 years?

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540692
05/17/16 03:18 PM
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mischeli Offline
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why????? smile why compare????????????????


There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2540696
05/17/16 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mischeli
why????? smile why compare????????????????

Did you actually read the subject of this thread?

It's all one long thread about comparisons of sub 1k digital pianos...

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Lester Burnham] #2540701
05/17/16 03:56 PM
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There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2540709
05/17/16 04:21 PM
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I'm pretty sure the pianoreport list hasn't been updated. Their Kawai ES100 review almost received a perfect score, higher than all the top 10 listed pianos.

Also, based on the Amazon list, you must think the Williams DP's are amazing, ranking even higher than the Yamaha's. Best Selling (quantity sold) doesn't tell you the best quality piano, which I think this thread is about. In relation to that, Amazon is a direct reseller of Yamaha, but other brands are not, only through 3rd party resellers, like the ES100 or FP-30, therefore, less people will buy it because it's not Amazon Prime or direct from Amazon. Those pianos probably aren't even bought on Amazon, so they aren't tracked on this list. I'm not saying Yamaha's are bad at all though, just saying your judgement using these links are flawed.

Last edited by J L; 05/17/16 04:23 PM.
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Lester Burnham] #2540740
05/17/16 05:52 PM
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Yes I did... My impressions about key action are based on a comparison against my beloved Kawai MP7 if you can read some previous messages... of course it was not a fair comparison because RHII is a much better key action than Roland PHA-IV; but for the price Roland FP30 is an excellent choice with a very decent key action. Cheers!.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Fer De Armas] #2540773
05/17/16 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
Yes I did... My impressions about key action are based on a comparison against my beloved Kawai MP7 if you can read some previous messages...


Well your previous message to this thread from March, implied that you hadn't played it then, as you appeared to be soliciting people who had played it, to declare their opinions, no doubt in order for you to regurgitate.

Had you actually played the FP-30 when you wrote that in March? Or are you claiming you've played it since?

And bearing in mind, the only claim of the tuning issue is from a different website, are you claiming when you played the FP-30 you also encountered this tuning issue? Or are you basing this problem purely on that one review.

Because some things don't add up in all this, Fer, and you come across as far from credible or believable.

Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
of course it was not a fair comparison because RHII is a much better key action than Roland PHA-IV; but for the price Roland FP30 is an excellent choice with a very decent key action. Cheers!.


"very decent key action"? You've changed your tune in the space of only a couple of posts, why only earlier today you said this:-

"i spoke only for the key action, IMHO is wobble and flabby"

Fer, what you write often seems to bend with the wind and what OTHER people write on the matter.

I'm far from sure I believe you've actually played an FP-30, because either way, your opinion on the matter seems decidedly fluid, and heavily influenced by what others are saying.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: yellojello] #2540781
05/17/16 07:22 PM
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Maybe Kawai ES100 has better keys but Yamaha p-serie has better piano and other sounds.
Kawai el.pianos and other instruments sound ridiculously compared to Yamaha.
Yamaha all sounds are pro.

Last edited by mischeli; 05/17/16 07:24 PM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2540786
05/17/16 07:33 PM
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Lester Burnham Offline
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Originally Posted by mischeli
Maybe Kawai ES100 has better keys but Yamaha p-serie has better piano and other sounds.
Kawai el.pianos and other instruments sound ridiculously compared to Yamaha.
Yamaha all sounds are pro.

OK, so you're a Yamaha fanboi, just like Fer is a Kawai fanboi.

Just what the forum needs...

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540792
05/17/16 07:47 PM
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I'll tell you a secret. It's possible by Yamaha to do simple correction to get a much better sound on outputs. to 50% better. I did this and my sound is wide and more "open" and clear. .)

Last edited by mischeli; 05/17/16 07:49 PM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540842
05/17/16 10:22 PM
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So which piano is this range is the most silent when playing. Like when it's off it'll still make a clacking kind of sound when being pressed.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2540904
05/18/16 06:50 AM
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Fer De Armas Offline
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Hi, IMHO follow this order: 1) Kawai, 2) Roland, 3) Yamaha, 4) Casio. Cheers!.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2540905
05/18/16 06:54 AM
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JoeT Offline
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Originally Posted by mischeli
I'll tell you a secret. It's possible by Yamaha to do simple correction to get a much better sound on outputs. to 50% better. I did this and my sound is wide and more "open" and clear. .)

So why is this "correction" not pre-installed on Yamaha digitals?


Kawai ES100 | Pianoteq 6 | Ivory II American Concert D | Steinberg UR22 | Sennheiser HD595
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: JoeT] #2540910
05/18/16 07:38 AM
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mischeli Offline
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I also asked my reparier this. Yamaha doesn't want to do this on purpose, he said.

Last edited by mischeli; 05/18/16 07:40 AM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: mischeli] #2541096
05/18/16 04:43 PM
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Marko in Boston Offline
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Originally Posted by mischeli
I'll tell you a secret. It's possible by Yamaha to do simple correction to get a much better sound on outputs. to 50% better. I did this and my sound is wide and more "open" and clear. .)


This came up on Youtube a few years ago:

"Getting digital audio from the CP33 was extremely hard & pushed the limit of the available parts, but it's definitely worth it. The sound from the digital intermediate is amazing.

The CP33 outputs very hissy analog, but internally uses 24 bit 44.1khz. The internal signal is not adjusted based on volume, so the amplifier stage takes an extremely faint signal from the DAC for all volume levels.

The digital intermediate contains the entire decay of each note all the way down to 0, with no hissing & barely any quantization noise. There is only a very slight hissing when the envelope is still loud enough to amplify the hissing of the original microphone. The digital output contains harmonics from the original CF-III not audible in the analog output.

It's a shame so many electronic instruments over the last 40 years were professionally recorded from their horrible analog outputs when a pristine digital intermediate was always available, inside the wiring. There was never an easy way to get at the digital intermediate."




KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2541112
05/18/16 05:42 PM
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I am a beginner with zero experience, wanting something good to learn on. I typically research a lot in my other hobbies, and there are much more plentiful amount of resources, reviews, and forums (especially forums with much more users). When looking for a DP, there is not much to read on the internet. It's especially more difficult when I have no idea about pianos, what to listen for, and what to feel for. This pianoworld forum seems to be the largest and most current, thus me ending up here. Just like any other forum, I see fanboys and bias, but everyone is always open to their own opinion. Most users usually see through the lines I assume. Similarly, there just aren't that many DP reviews online, although I find the youtube videos pretty helpful.

Before going to a physical store, I narrowed down my selection to Yamaha P115, Casio PX360, Kawai ES100, and Roland FP30. I even thought about going up to the $2000 mark for Kawai ES8 or Roland RP401R.

I contacted azpianonews (I did find his reviews pretty informative, and not too biased), but later noticed that he was a dealer by his response and reading more into the site. He recommended the Kawai or Casio, which his prices were competitive. But overall, I was planning on buying from a safer online source/store, or at a local dealer.

The first store I went to was Guitar Center, which had the Yamaha and Casio. I played a little bit, but no salesman came up to me while I waited, so I left. Next, I went to a Roland dealer. He didn't have the FP30, but had RP-401R and F-130R packages at online competitive prices. He gave me a great demo on it, going into detail just like the youtube videos. It sounded great, and that's why I contemplated the RP401R, which he says it's his best selling package. Although at the beginning, he did say all the pianos under that price point were toys and would hinder my learning experience. Last, I went to a Kawai dealer, and again, didn't have the ES100, but had the CN25 and CN35. She also gave a quick demo, but a very short one, not as detailed, and didn't play as nice as the other person. Both Roland and Kawai sounded and felt great, but the Roland demo was much better. Probably not fair also was that fact the the Roland store space is much smaller than the larger Kawai space, so the sound was an uneven match. So as a first time buyer, the sales person had a huge influence on my decision towards Roland.

So I ended up ordering the FP30 online, and it is coming by the end of the week!

In the end, especially with virgin ears and hands, I'm sure any choice would have been great. I'm just excited to start learning on something other than an iPad virtual keyboard.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: yellojello] #2541167
05/18/16 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by yellojello
. . .

So I ended up ordering the FP30 online, and it is coming by the end of the week!

In the end, especially with virgin ears and hands, I'm sure any choice would have been great. I'm just excited to start learning on something other than an iPad virtual keyboard.


You did reasonable research, and you were willing to spend enough money to avoid "toys". Any one of your original candidates would have been OK. The FP-30 should do just fine.

Have fun -- you'll be at the "Adult Beginners" forum, next.



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Marko in Boston] #2541173
05/18/16 09:00 PM
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mischeli Offline
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something like that or not...

I'm inspired to share this with you, guys:



Keep in mind that sampling rate was 16 bit / 44,1 kHz here!

Last edited by mischeli; 05/19/16 05:08 AM.

There is no science. There is only misery, striving and sacrifice to reach your personal goal. -Eli Mine
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2541256
05/19/16 05:55 AM
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JoeT Offline
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What's the point? That single layer sample will never sound like real piano.


Kawai ES100 | Pianoteq 6 | Ivory II American Concert D | Steinberg UR22 | Sennheiser HD595
Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Lester Burnham] #2541275
05/19/16 07:37 AM
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Fer De Armas Offline
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So, we need a Roland and Casio fan boys urgent to complete the team...!.

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Fer De Armas] #2541287
05/19/16 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Fer De Armas
So, we need a Roland and Casio fan boys urgent to complete the team...!.

There is, of course, another alternative...

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Daniel Richter] #2542042
05/21/16 05:06 PM
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Hello everybody. I’m joining this conversation a little late. Is this thread just relegated to the <$1000 price range? There are many other factors that can weigh into why one digital piano would be recommended over another such as recording software, professional or amateur usage, accessing other instrumental sounds etc.

If below $1000 is desired then the Yamaha DGX650WH is my recommendation. If going slightly over the $1000 mark is ok then KORG SV188BK or the Roland RD-300NX would be my recommendations.

I hope that helps. Let me know if anyone wants more information.

Best regards :-)

Re: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$ [Re: Dragon Piano] #2546790
06/06/16 07:59 AM
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Apparently the dgx isn't as good as the es100 or fp30 at being a realistic piano, but it does have more sounds and rhythms.
Do you have any experience of the 2 I mentioned?

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