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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167232 10/16/13 01:46 PM
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Michael -

Clearly, you're passionate about the teaching aspect of jazz, so I'm sure you have a good sense of how to teach this stuff yourself.

Would love it if you could post some video tutorial(s). I feel I've benefited so far from things like Dave's and 7notemode's tutorials, but there's no doubt that I can use all the help I can get.

Thx.

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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167233 10/16/13 01:48 PM
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The bass line video is one of the most useful jazz piano lesson on the web.
To say that Dave is a great player is an understatement, so say that he is weak as a teacher is ignorance, jealousy or both. Dave is one of the best teachers you'll ever run into. I've had many.

I've worked off of the bass line video and the 15 elements for hours. I can play a bass line on just about any tune. If someone asked me "Can you show me how to play a bass line". I'd say yes, go watch DF video and get grinding. There's simply no way I would lay it better.
Show me a video with solo piano techniques split the way that the 15 elements are described.

I was at Aebersold this year and many knew DF or knew of him. Dan Hearle commented how he's run into so many of his students and that they were great. Dan's a super nice guy btw.
If you happen to walk along the streets of NY alongside DF, you will run into people that stop and say, "Hey you're the guy from the youtube video. I love your stuff man".

Michael, let it slide man. Do your own bass line video, or whatever video. Let people love it and move on. You're not gonna get much love around here bashing. There's plenty of business for everyone. So just be cool.


Re: rodeo LH
Info2011 #2167235 10/16/13 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Info2011
Michael -

Clearly, you're passionate about the teaching aspect of jazz, so I'm sure you have a good sense of how to teach this stuff yourself.

Would love it if you could post some video tutorial(s). I feel I've benefited so far from things like Dave's and 7notemode's tutorials, but there's no doubt that I can use all the help I can get.

Thx.


7notemode (tom) is another super nice dude who hangs around here sometimes. An awesome pianist who makes wonderful videos. I often recommend his videos alongside Dave's.

Those 2 should give me a cut on the crazy dough they're making via youtube...

Re: rodeo LH
knotty #2167251 10/16/13 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by knotty
Originally Posted by Info2011
Michael -

Clearly, you're passionate about the teaching aspect of jazz, so I'm sure you have a good sense of how to teach this stuff yourself.

Would love it if you could post some video tutorial(s). I feel I've benefited so far from things like Dave's and 7notemode's tutorials, but there's no doubt that I can use all the help I can get.

Thx.


7notemode (tom) is another super nice dude who hangs around here sometimes. An awesome pianist who makes wonderful videos. I often recommend his videos alongside Dave's.

Those 2 should give me a cut on the crazy dough they're making via youtube...
both are great players but videos are not the "nuts and bolts" videos I really learn from. Not that I shouldn't transcribe them but I choose to transcribe the historical greats like Sonny Clark, Herbie, Red Garland, Tommy Flanagan, Barry Harris, etc.

I appreciate anyone who has figured it out to share their skill in any way.


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Re: rodeo LH
dire tonic #2167269 10/16/13 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Info2011
Michael -
Would love it if you could post some video tutorial(s).

Certainly. The only video I've done so far teaching how to improvise on a particular tune, is not jazz, it's the Aha tune Take on Me: Take on Me

I welcome you (and others) to watch it, and upload your improvisations based on it. Unlike Mr. Frank's videos, I don't beat around the bush with nonsense like "Let the Spirit Guide you to the right notes." I laughed my @ss off when I heard that.

Originally Posted by dire tonic

While we’re at it, how about you showing what you can do with the standard ‘There will never be another you’.


Certainly. I will do.

Likewise, how many of you guys are actually going to improvise something for us and post it here? Or are you all talk, and no action?

Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/16/13 03:06 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
knotty #2167282 10/16/13 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by knotty
The bass line video is one of the most useful jazz piano lesson on the web.


I don't think I've seen this one. I'll check it out.

Quote
Michael, let it slide man. Do your own bass line video, or whatever video. Let people love it and move on.


That's cool, man. I appreciate that

Quote

You're not gonna get much love around here bashing.

Mmmmm, don't mistake criticism for bashing.
Quote

There's plenty of business for everyone.

Teaching music is a labor of love for me. It's not my livelihood.

Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/16/13 03:08 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167438 10/16/13 09:50 PM
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Michael Martinez- I see exactly where you're coming from. For the last few months I've pointed out the "forum spamming" Dave Frank does on this site.
(Oh look! An improvisation video! How cool!... Oh wait. It's Dave Frank again.)

Is he a highly respected player? It seems so.
Can he play piano? Sure.
Is there anything you can do about it? Simply put: No.

I've read your comments throughout this whole thread, and I completely agree with what you're saying.
Sadly, because we don't have 1,000+ posts on here, we don't have respective opinions like some others, so we eventually are unheard.

This is actually why I've stopped visiting the forums as much as I'd like to... It all comes down to post count.
... And then you have these guys like Dave Frank making up random names to techniques that are basically very similar to others (Rodeo = Alberti Bass much? maybe with one exception?... I rest my case.)

So I'll be the 1% here and fully support your opinion Michael. You did validly prove your point by quoting others.
I'm just glad I'm not the only one here who thinks Dave Frank's Posts are essentially self promotion and egotistical!


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167718 10/17/13 01:01 PM
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Rolling shoulders -

I know there's a lot of people who feel the same way, but who are too timid to say anything. They feel like they don't have the right to critique someone who is an experienced performer. But the fact is, you have every right to criticize their teaching if you aren't learning anything from them. Dave Frank's videos do smack more of showcasing his talents rather than helping people learn to play jazz.


Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/17/13 01:03 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2167809 10/17/13 04:55 PM
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I've seen some of the DF videos and frankly (get it), have learned much from them. I'll be sure and check out the mentioned videos in this thread.

Anyone can criticize and most fools do!!

Last edited by RodScod.com; 10/17/13 05:10 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167848 10/17/13 06:30 PM
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I keep thinking that if a video is free then it's up to us to decide if we want to watch it. It can be called anything and do nothing to advance whatever it's about. Once we decide to watch it, maybe the whole thing, maybe just 10 seconds then we critiquing it. The only real thing then to do is either like it, in which case you might tell people about it OR think it s*cks and just move on to next one. There's no reason to let anyone know if you hate it unless you know person and want to [censored] on him. I guess there's also the chance you think it's stupid or funny and you want to become a comedian and share it with a cute one-liner.

Now if someone is trying to sell a DVD and promotes a video to advertise then I think it's important that people review it and be truthful.

I do wish that people selling their wares would do it in a specific place. I'm not a fan of reading a thread and finding out it's an info-mercial.

I think both main parties made mistakes in this. DF could of explained the technique without the link. I understand it made it easy, but it can be implied, by some, as promotion. The explanation approach, IMO, would of promoted, but in a more subtle way. MM didn't have to bring it in the gutter, but I do agree with some of points he made.

This thread also brings to light the risk that heavy weights can get themselves into by exposing their identity.


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167852 10/17/13 06:35 PM
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I don't get all the Frank Hate - I am sure Dave will cheerfully refund your money - oh wait the videos are free.

Check out the end of his Charlie Parker video: there is a great summary of the jazz elements and an analysis the Koko solo - it is one of the best summaries of the things that make up the language: scales, chromatics, chord tones, approach tones, arpeggios. It's right at the end of the video. Highly recommended.

As a wise man once said about the Barry Harris video:

Any video by anyone on any subject is a "your mileage may vary kind of thing."

Amen and may the spirit continue to guide us to the right notes.

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2168194 10/18/13 03:11 PM
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A lot of hot talk in this thread, but what it comes down to is there's only two people who have recorded themselves playing for everyone to hear: myself and the OP.

Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2168370 10/19/13 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Martinez
A lot of hot talk in this thread, but what it comes down to is there's only two people who have recorded themselves playing for everyone to hear: myself and the OP.


You’re confused and generating most of the heat.

Dfrank did what he routinely does, posting a video for public consumption so that viewers can take from it what they will. You piped up protesting that he was “short on teaching”. By implication, one can only assume that you claim yourself to be strong in the area that you accuse Dfrank of being weak, namely teaching. The proof of your teaching skills would surely be that one of your willing students shows us what he can do using your methods to learn to improvise. It is for them, your willing students (please don't count me amongst them!), to pipe up at this point so as to demonstrate just how effective your methods are.

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2168667 10/19/13 07:19 PM
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Here's Michael Martinez playing "Misty":

http://www.michael--martinez.com/music/Original%20Music/me/Misty.mp3

I rate this performance as mediocre.
The timing is not very good and the style reminds of a mundane pop pianist at a department store. The playing doesn't present a jazz rhythmic or jazz harmonic sensibility.

Re: rodeo LH
RinTin #2168774 10/20/13 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rintincop

Here's Michael Martinez playing "Misty":

http://www.michael--martinez.com/music/Original%20Music/me/Misty.mp3

I rate this performance as mediocre.
The timing is not very good and the style reminds of a mundane pop pianist at a department store. The playing doesn't present a jazz rhythmic or jazz harmonic sensibility.


It reminds me of the adage-

those who can, do;
those who can't, teach;
those who can't teach, teach others to teach.

(or, that last line, "..., teach gym" - Woody Allen)

If the English prof is filling in for the absent Chemistry prof, he need only be a page ahead of his pupils, so there's no reason why MM shouldn't be able to help those with less knowledge than himself but maybe the title 'educator' is a bit of a stretch.

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2168848 10/20/13 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rintincop

Here's Michael Martinez playing "Misty":
...
I rate this performance as mediocre.


If this is medicore, I imagine your own playing is rookie.

You guys are goofy. You talk about music like you know it, but I bet there's not one of you who can improvise or play by ear competently.

Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/20/13 09:06 AM.
Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2168883 10/20/13 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Martinez
Originally Posted by rintincop

Here's Michael Martinez playing "Misty":
...
I rate this performance as mediocre.


If this is medicore, I imagine your own playing is rookie.

You guys are goofy. You talk about music like you know it, but I bet there's not one of you who can improvise or play by ear competently.


Oh, right.

Re: rodeo LH
RinTin #2168944 10/20/13 12:44 PM
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While I enjoyed listening to Michael's rendition of "Misty", I also understand why he sought jazz improvisation advice from Dave Frank's master classes. As someone already mentioned, Dave's Charlie Parker master-class is an excellent resource for right hand improvisation. In addition, Dave shares much more advice in his 20 or so other online jazz piano master classes. Perhaps one should study at least a few of these classes before criticizing the scope of Dave's knowledge sharing. I am not aware of any other series of master classes that can compare in terms of the shear magnitude of Dave Frank's online knowledge sharing efforts. I myself have studied at least a dozen of Dave's classes, and am now in my fifth year of private jazz piano lessons with him. In my 20+ years of formal/private training, I have never met a more dedicated educator (in any field). IMO, Dave Frank is the "Bill Evans" of online jazz piano education. I would love to hear from one of Michael's students. Thanks, Chris


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Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2168955 10/20/13 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Martinez
[quote=rintincop]


If this is medicore, I imagine your own playing is rookie.

You guys are goofy. You talk about music like you know it, but I bet there's not one of you who can improvise or play by ear competently.


Don't be so quick to speak. Come to the Jazz advanced thread and listen to some of the players. I would post the links to my videos but I prefer to remain anonymous.

I seem to recall Michael that you were quite dismissive of Keith Jarrett as a "jazz" player. Perhaps your ears aren't attuned to recognizing his greatness.

For all the talk you write about on your website about harmony, counterpoint and jazz I heard none of that on any of your song clips. http://www.michael--martinez.com/music/Original%20Music/index.html

Frankly, do you even play jazz? I heard no sense of timing, syncopation, harmonic depth.... You were using root position block chords on Arthur's Theme. your Misty was.... no altered dominant voicings, all plain vanilla. weird trills added in the melody for no reason. I mean if you are going for the cocktail lounge gig it might pass. Have you even played in a proper jazz band before?

Sad to say I learned nothing reading your site, except cheap shills to buy your "jazz" books.


Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2168957 10/20/13 01:14 PM
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Man I sure learned "alot" on your Ear training 101 video!!


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