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rodeo LH
#2166257 10/14/13 05:35 PM
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introduced here at 30:10

http://youtu.be/3CGOSToQWv0

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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166267 10/14/13 06:04 PM
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Who came up with the nickname "rodeo"?

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166279 10/14/13 06:32 PM
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yawrs trullie

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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166280 10/14/13 06:32 PM
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Hey, again I'm going to be a critic here. I skimmed through the first 25 minutes of this, and I saw nothing at all on how to develop improvised lines, I only saw some demonstrations of what chord voicings to use in the LH. But this is incongruous, because what you teach in this video is substantially simpler than what you actually do in the video, particularly with the right hand ... So, a bit confused as to who the target audience is supposed to be? The title says "Advanced Jazz" lesson. Okay, the playing is advanced, but the lesson is fairly simple, so ...?

I think what you should actually do, is break down the right hand, the improvised lines and show people how to construct those lines. I believe you'll find a substantially bigger, and more appreciative, audience if you do. Just my two cents. Keep on rockin'.

Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/14/13 06:38 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2166290 10/14/13 06:57 PM
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Listen, *deleted* I don't want to hear your opinions of my *deleted* that you skim through the first few minutes of. At least have to decency to watch the whole *deleted* thing before you unload.

The ablilty to add these types of stylistic elements to one's playing can only be done by advanced players, hence the advanced rating. This particular video is not about teaching the RH line, I do that in part on my Ustream Charlie Parker master class, TOWARDS THE END.

Dave Frank

Last edited by BB Player; 10/15/13 08:23 AM. Reason: Profanity deleted
Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166549 10/15/13 07:35 AM
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DFrank - Nice guy. If you post something on a public forum, you can, and probably will, get all kinds of comments.

If you're not able to deal with that, don't post.

Your comments are not appropriate here by the way.

Last edited by Roger Ransom; 10/15/13 08:21 AM.

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Re: rodeo LH
Roger Ransom #2166567 10/15/13 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Roger Ransom
If you post something on a public forum, you can, and probably will, get all kinds of comments.

If you're not able to deal with that, don't post.


Choosing the right to reply doesn't imply over-sensitivity.

Quote

Your comments are not appropriate here by the way.


- they perhaps don't fit forum guidelines but I found them to be 100% appropriate.

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166577 10/15/13 08:54 AM
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If I knew how to post a Smilie face eating popcorn, which infers I am enjoying where this tread is going, i would post it now. smile


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166664 10/15/13 12:08 PM
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Quote

This particular video is not about teaching the RH line, I do that in part on my Ustream Charlie Parker master class, TOWARDS THE END.

Dave Frank


Is this the only place you teach the RH line, or are there other videos or materials where you do this?

Honestly, after having watched a few of your videos, my opinion is that you are long on playing, but short on teaching. You've already demonstrated you can play, yeah? Everyone knows that, they can hear it. But playing and teaching are two different things.

So many guys think that they've been gigging for a long time so they know how to instruct others. But, almost nobody knows how to teach jazz. That's a fact. What I'd really like to see you do, is break down your right hand improvised lines into the elements that make it up. That truly would be worthwhile. Are you up for that challenge?

By the way, I don't mind the profanity. But I was hoping for a back-and-forth discussion rather than an obvious dismissal of my comments. Oh well.

I'll check out your Ustream Charlie Parker master class, and I will comment honestly about it. If it does what you say, I'll be sure to talk about it. But if it doesn't, I won't sugar coat my comments.


Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2166684 10/15/13 01:13 PM
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Re: rodeo LH
RinTin #2166699 10/15/13 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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+1
This is getting good. I've had many great teachers but it appears most teachers sometimes hold back some of the most important elements. For example, I learned from many places about the importance of using guide tones lines. OK, maybe I'm stupid but it wasn't until I bought Bert Ligon, connecting chords with linear harmony that the whole idea made sense and gave me a way to create an order in my head of how to choose a 3rd or a 7th, etc.

I'm not here to add to two experienced educators, but I feel like I could be a much different player if I could of had better teachers when I was a young boy.

I'd say I learned more in last 3 years using some books, but mostly bits from different YouTube videos.


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166708 10/15/13 02:37 PM
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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with Michael Martinez' critique of Dave Frank's teaching. Dave Frank is not only a great player, but one of the finest teachers of this style of piano improvisation. It is true that the videos start from the point of a performance video, but why not? Musicians learn through imitation. Why not imitate one of the best. Dave has a monster LH. Look at it. Watch how his hand movements are meticulously placed. Notice how connected physically he is. You can see that his brain is connected to his LH. This is part of the learning in this lesson. Just because a lesson isn't specifically spoon fed, doesn't mean it isn't taught.

Lastly, everyone learns at their own pace and in their own way. I suggest that you watch the video to the end. Take notes. Practice. Then after you have done so, you will have the right to make comments about a lesson from a well informed and dedicated teacher of piano. Practice then speak!

Re: rodeo LH
Randy Klein #2166713 10/15/13 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Klein
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with Michael Martinez' critique of Dave Frank's teaching. Dave Frank is not only a great player, but one of the finest teachers of this style of piano improvisation.


+1

I get a lot out of Dave's videos tutorial-wise. And it's also just good to see how it's all done.


Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2166775 10/15/13 05:05 PM
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The left comping video is my favorite of the Frank series. I have seen it twice. I like the way it presents the different concepts.


Re: rodeo LH
Info2011 #2166911 10/15/13 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Info2011
Originally Posted by Randy Klein
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree strongly with Michael Martinez' critique of Dave Frank's teaching. Dave Frank is not only a great player, but one of the finest teachers of this style of piano improvisation.


+1

I get a lot out of Dave's videos tutorial-wise. And it's also just good to see how it's all done.

I think MM was critiquing the wrong video. I think he thought the video was called "15 ways to improve your improvised lines.

Maybe Dave's video should of been called "15 left hand concepts for solo piano," but like any video from an accomplished player such as Dave, we must be grateful that they're sharing their knowledge at all.


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167144 10/16/13 10:36 AM
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73,497 hits to date plus all positives, speaks for itself.


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Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167196 10/16/13 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy Klein
It is true that the videos start from the point of a performance video, but why not? Musicians learn through imitation.

Well, then why even watch a video? Just pick up some albums and rewind them over and over at slow speed.
If you feel that you have learned to improvise from listening to his videos, then I would be curious to hear the result. Can you record a short video?
Quote

Then after you have done so, you will have the right to make comments about a lesson from a well informed and dedicated teacher of piano.

My assessment is of his videos (from an instructional standpoint) is right on the mark as it stands.
Originally Posted by 36251
I've had many great teachers but it appears most teachers sometimes hold back some of the most important elements.

Yes. They do this for two reasons:
1. so their paying students will keep coming back
2. because they don't want to reveal "secrets" that took them years to develop. Another way to put this is that the trick itself may be simple and readily explained, but nobody explained it to them, so why should they bother explaining it to anybody else.
Quote

I'm not here to add to two experienced educators, but I feel like I could be a much different player if I could of had better teachers when I was a young boy.

Amen. Your experience is not isolated, unfortunately.
Originally Posted by 36251

like any video from an accomplished player such as Dave, we must be grateful that they're sharing their knowledge at all.

Wow. I completely disagree. If the teaching isn't good, then there's no point. Have you actually learned anything from those videos? If so, I would like to hear it. And I mean hear it, as in: you record yourself improvising on concepts you've learned.
Originally Posted by Farmerjones
73,497 hits to date plus all positives, speaks for itself.

Actually, no. It doesn't. I would bet 99.99% of those "positives" are solely reactions to the quality of the performance, not the learning process.

You guys need to separate your awe of the performance from what you are able to learn and take away from the videos. I'm not critiquing his performance, I'm critiquing his instructional ability. The main characteristic of his videos, is his RH improvised lines. This is what gives his performances their jazz sound. And this is the thing that he does not teach. Instead, he gives some simplistic hints and tips on rhythm and basslines.
I would challenge anybody on this forum who believes they have learned something substantial or important from these videos, to demonstrate it with their own youtube vid.

Last edited by Michael Martinez; 10/16/13 12:53 PM.
Re: rodeo LH
Michael Martinez #2167219 10/16/13 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

Actually, no. It doesn't. I would bet 99.99% of those "positives" are solely reactions to the quality of the performance, not the learning process.


Actually, yes.
You're "betting" not actually reading the comments. Many actually learned from the video. Advanced aspects can be taught by example.

Everybody and their dog, teaches piano over the internet. Sometimes I feel like im actually the only one that does not. But one thing I do know is perception. When one coffee company started to knock another coffee company's product in their advertising campaign, they found sales of coffee went down for both companies. I personally, don't let my opinion pick my pocket.



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Re: rodeo LH
Farmerjones #2167222 10/16/13 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Farmerjones
Many actually learned from the video.

I would like to hear this demonstrated.
Quote

Advanced aspects can be taught by example.

He doesn't teach advanced stuff. If he actually taught what he plays, then this would be a different conversation.
Quote

Everybody and their dog, teaches piano over the internet.

And, most of them teach it very poorly.
Quote

When one coffee company started to knock another coffee company's product in their advertising campaign, they found sales of coffee went down for both companies. I personally, don't let my opinion pick my pocket.

Not exactly sure what you're saying. Are you suggesting that one's opinions should not be expressed?

Re: rodeo LH
Dfrankjazz #2167228 10/16/13 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Martinez

I would challenge anybody on this forum who believes they have learned something substantial or important from these videos, to demonstrate it with their own youtube vid.


Then for the sake of balance let’s issue the same challenge to anyone who happens to have watched your recent videos. Let any one of them upload something to YT showing how they’re coping with your ‘method’.

While we’re at it, how about you showing what you can do with the standard ‘There will never be another you’. You purport to be an educator so it’s fair to ask what sort of results one can expect from your method; it goes without saying, you would be its finest exemplar, the proof of the pudding.

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