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Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2165882 10/14/13 01:38 AM
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I am grateful for Casio, really. Where I live not only everything is overpriced (partly because of taxes) but also the average household income is lower than Europe and US. When I set out to buy a dp, I tried a few cheap/older generation dps in some local music shops and actions were all light & plasticky. I was not able to describe this at the time because I never played an acoustic or a dp with good action but you can still feel something is not quite right. Just I was about to buy one of those I saw some guy selling PX series on a website (ebay-like local site), there were lots of praise on the internet so I said what the heck and ordered it on impulse. Probably one of the best decisions of my life! I could not believe the difference in the feel of keys when it arrived, heavy, responsive and full feeling, also with a texture on top.

Now when I go to local stores I can make a better comparison and its action is miles ahead of dps in its price range. Of course other brands also have as good and better actions but they simply are not available where I live or they are overpriced as heck..(There are some good Yamahas but they are almost 3x the price!)

If I had bought one those other dps I would definitely enjoy playing/practicing less and in the long run I think that's very important. So thanks Casio, and thanks internet seller guy whom I suspect smuggled the dps into the country without tariff, lol. (The PX series is now available in many stores but the price is almost 1.5x what I paid. Downside: I do not have local guarantee so I hope I do not have any maintenance problems)

Sorry for slight off topic..

Last edited by sydnal; 10/14/13 01:39 AM.

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Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2165888 10/14/13 02:14 AM
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Regarding the claim that the Casio action is just as good or better than the Kawai , Roland PHA-III or Yamaha's GH3/ NW is nonsense. It's a good keybed for the price range and especially considering the very low weight. Period.

The more expensive boards of KAWAI, Roland and Yamaha are still better, but cost more money and require more heavy lifting in case of stage piano's; it's a trade off everyone has to make for his/her own. I personally decided to hand back the new Casio and go back to Kawai, because of the keys (among other things), but I don't have to move it around - otherwise I would have thought twice cause the PX5 is really (!) good at only 11kg. I never played a yamaha GHS keybed , so I wonder how the MOXF8 will be key-wise and if it poses any competition for the PX5...

Last edited by JFP; 10/14/13 02:16 AM.
Re: Casio px key action
JFP #2165953 10/14/13 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Regarding the claim that the Casio action is just as good or better than the Kawai , Roland PHA-III or Yamaha's GH3/ NW is nonsense. It's a good keybed for the price range and especially considering the very low weight. Period.



Hi JFP,

That is why I qualified my subjective assertion that the Casio PX-X50 action was "as good" as DPs costing twice as much. I also was careful to note that it was just my humble opinion.

I believe the Roland (PHA-3) and Yamaha (GH3 or NW) actions are only featured on models greater than 2.5 times the cost of the Casio.

The Kawai RM3 action on the MP10 doesn't cut it for me, as it only has a two sensor key design. The Kawai models featuring the RM3 Grand II action (3 sensors) are more than 2.5 times the cost of the Casio.

I fully expect and respect that others may disagree with my opinion.

Last edited by Tritium; 10/14/13 08:10 AM.
Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166063 10/14/13 12:13 PM
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The funny thing is that for every doubling of price of DPs (100% raise) the quality increases by only a few percent. It's almost a logarithmic scale, if the quality was plotted as a function of the price.

This discussion also proves to me how important the action is. More important than the sound, as you can usually turn to software piano to improve that aspect of your piano circumstances.

The action of higher end Rolands and Yamahas has been mentioned, and if the PX pianos are even considered as rivals to pianos costing three times as much, it is a victory for Casio.

Finally I must mention that there is a digital piano selling at three or four times the price of PX-750/850/5S, with a worse touch than that of the PX-series. I'm referring to the Nord Piano 1 and 2. The action of them is very light, which is unbelievable for pianos in that price category. Though the Nord Piano 1 and 2 are amazing instruments, apart from the action.


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Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166107 10/14/13 01:05 PM
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Its odd why this Tritium fellow beats around the bush. In his characterization of 'action', a $500 Casio trisensor slab is as good in every way as a 3 sensor $1900 Kawai ES7 since in both cases it is assumed that software pianos will be used.

His take on 'action' is much like his polyphony...simply a number on a specs sheet. Nothing more.

Re: Casio px key action
StarvingLion #2166237 10/14/13 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Its odd why this Tritium fellow beats around the bush. In his characterization of 'action', a $500 Casio trisensor slab is as good in every way as a 3 sensor $1900 Kawai ES7 since in both cases it is assumed that software pianos will be used.

His take on 'action' is much like his polyphony...simply a number on a specs sheet. Nothing more.


Hey Troll, you are obviously not very good at basic math.

Last time I checked, $1900/$500 = 3.8

Which is well beyond the scope of my comparison.

Like I said earlier, why don't you slime your way back to your lair. Nobody wants you on here...and frankly, it is amazing you haven't been banned.

EDIT: On second thought, forget I even responded to you. I shouldn't have been sucked in to your "bait". My bad. You have previously admitted you are a complete novice and beginner at piano (as everyone here already knows). While there is nothing wrong with that at all (I applaud all new piano practitioners)...your commentary on DP piano actions has no basis in real experience. Even worse, you have no way to make bona fide assessment between what constitutes a good DP action, and how that compares to a true acoustic Grand action.

Besides, don't you have some appointment to sling your ridiculous mud
at the V-Piano...although, lately it now seems you have set your target on the Kawai VPC-1.

Give me a friggin' break.

Last edited by Tritium; 10/14/13 05:14 PM.
Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166244 10/14/13 05:08 PM
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@StarvingLion - we understand your frustration, but you are somewhat preaching to the choir around here. Complaining to us isn't going to make DP manufs change their strategies. I don't know what to suggest, but going violently off-topic to personally vent in every thread doesn't improve the situation. We are a forum of end-users, not policy-swaying liaisons to the big corps.

Re: Casio px key action
xorbe #2166261 10/14/13 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xorbe
@StarvingLion - we understand your frustration, but you are somewhat preaching to the choir around here. Complaining to us isn't going to make DP manufs change their strategies. I don't know what to suggest, but going violently off-topic to personally vent in every thread doesn't improve the situation. We are a forum of end-users, not policy-swaying liaisons to the big corps.


Xorbe...you are familiar with SL's post history, yes??

You seem a very reasonable member. Exactly, in what sense is SL "preaching to the choir", and can you list me any concrete recommendation the Troll has made for the betterment the industry?

Unfortunately for SL, he caught me with an unusual amount of time on my hands, today. Here are some recent gems from this Troll. This reading would be entertaining, if it wasn't so pathetic. SL fails even at being a marginally intelligent and creative Troll. And in case it isn't obvious, notice how almost every post is a contradiction of an earlier position:

Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Originally Posted by JFP
zZzZZzzzzzzzZzzz.......


Memo to Kawai

Drop the price on the MP10 by 50% and fire all the marketing clowns already. Shaving materials is for suckers.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
The only reason to get an expensive digital is for *real* wooden keys. The other stuff doesn't matter. Literally every person who has bought a FP-80 or ES7 is disabling the onboard sound generator for software pianos. Nobody can agree on what is a 'proper' action and nobody can agree on how much thumping is good or bad.

Thats it, wooden keys.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion


George, I wouldn't get the overpriced ES7. The overlooked feature that really matters on a digital is whether the keys thump hard (excessive noise caused by hard bottoming out of the keys).

The thumping is extremely annoying to the point that it will drive you away from the instrument. Even some $2000 digitals have terrible thumping.

You shouldn't have to pay a huge premium (eg. ES7) for something so basic.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion


Apparently, the VPC1 has fizzled. Nobody cares anymore about the VPC1. Software pianos are a fad.

Its either the P-105/155 or the Roland V-Piano (stage version only). The stuff inbetween is not worth the bother.

Admit it already.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
The only people who care about the V are the Chopin nutcases ("gotta have a grand") and the Frank Zappa types.

Even a serious pop song writer/artist wouldn't touch the thing. Why? Because if you have either good relative pitch or perfect pitch, the artifacts will mess your mind up. Thats why I said its no more good than a 1000 casio.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion


The suspense is nearly killing me. Please hurry, Kawai can't delay the VPC1 forever in order to dump overpriced ES7's on the NA market.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion


I'm sure he won't even buy the $20 000 V-grand. You can put 10 different advanced classical pianists in a room full of every different make of weighted digital piano and none of them will agree on anything except that the digital piano is only good for headphone practice.

So why spend $7000 when you can spend $600.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion


I am sad to inform you that the VPC1 has instantly obsoleted your RD-700nx. Its like the old IBM Personal Computer versus Minicomputer debate. People couldn't see the obvious back then either.

But the situation for Roland is not completely hopeless. Roland can let the V-Piano monster out of its cage and wreak havoc on the VPC1+samplers possibly devouring them in one fell swoop.

I just don't think they have the guts to do it.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
"just a piano that sounds nice and plays like a real piano"

If thats your criteria then you may as well not lie to yourself that you can get that with $1000 US.

You have to shell out $3K US in either digital or acoustic to get something that sounds nice and plays like a real piano.

My advice is to wait 15 months. Prices of digital pianos are going to drop like a rock because of inflation and hardware piano panic due to VPC1.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Nothing makes any sense. The V-Piano should be pulverizing the acoutic cheap upright market into tiny bits and pieces. In reality, the V-Piano is a massive flop. The VPC1 fans really want the V-Piano even if they refuse to admit it and will end up paying the same price in the long run. I expect a mass exodus away from hardware pianos to physical modeling software to commence immediately to chase the mythical V-Piano.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
VPC1 + Pianoteq

Its the V-piano without the obsolescence and unfixable modeling errors of the V-piano. And it has a better keyboard. Forget about samples. They have never worked, and never will.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Biased against DP's? I just bought a DP only because I had to. And I got the best bang for the buck.

But the facts speak for themselves. People are happy to spend >$3K on VCP1 + high performance laptop + software engine + high performance headphones...etc

But these same people won't finance a V-Piano for $6K, the greatest digital piano on earth.


Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Local dealer wants to sell me a brand new Kohler & Campbell 42" acoustic console Piano for $2700 CDN, free bench, free delivery, free tuning, 0% down $70/month...Middle Pedal Quiet Play, ...piano seemed good.

The problem is whether I'm cut out for classical piano and i don't want to end up with a >$1000 pet rock if i'm not. Even though I know the action on the Yamaha Np-11 digital is hopeless, is it at least possible to determine whether a person is capable of moving beyond the beginner level? I don't mind a lengthy reorientation period on the new acoustic but is that $160 digital simply unplayable for Bach?


Originally Posted by StarvingLion

I'm just starting out in piano (classical) and am looking at the P-155 and the difference in price in my area ($1000 for P-155, $1900 for ES7) is substantial.


Last edited by Tritium; 10/14/13 08:00 PM.
Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166403 10/14/13 11:42 PM
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There is no $1300 stage piano that even exists to compare to the $500 Casio trisensor. So you're saying the $500 casio is better than the $1000 P-155. I think your buddy experts here won't back you up on that either.

Re: Casio px key action
StarvingLion #2166429 10/15/13 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
There is no $1300 stage piano that even exists to compare to the $500 Casio trisensor. The $1000 P-155 has a better sound engine, speakers, and overall playing experience than the $500 casio. It feels and sounds like an actual upright acoustic. The lack of a 3rd sensor makes no difference whatsoever.


Typical...you completely ignore the subject at hand, and the recent commentary. Your statement that there isn't a $1300 "stage piano" to directly compare to Casio...this is relevant, how?

What, is this state of affairs somehow Casio's fault ??

Also, I have no idea why you have suddenly specified and focused upon a "stage piano" (slab style). I am not clear as to how that is germane to this discussion...especially since my original post concerned the Casio PX-850, and how (in my opinion) it's action was as good as DPs costing twice as much.

Of course, as you are an admitted beginner, I fully expect you have no appreciation for the difference between a two and three-sensor key system. In any event, I suspect that reproducing the action of an acoustic Upright was not exactly the goal Yamaha was shooting for, with their P-155.

Furthermore, the fact that I am even bothering to reply to you, at all, speaks to the degree of inebriation I currently find myself in. It is a holiday, and the Patriots and Red Sox both had miraculous wins last night.

P.S. -- The Yamaha P-155 is a fine digital piano. I tried one before ultimately deciding on the Casio PX-850. I preferred the PX-850 for many reasons, the most important being quality of action, keyboard responsiveness, piano tones, as well as sound/speaker quality. My humble opinion, of course.

Last edited by Tritium; 10/15/13 01:53 AM.
Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166473 10/15/13 02:17 AM
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When I came across the Privia PX 110 in the UK, I stopped bought it and never looked back since then. It's been ten years and this beast has made its money 50x times... (ok... not so much, but).

The action to me feels better than anything else I've tried my hands on (digital and reasonably priced. I'm not about to compare a 400$ instrument (cause this is how much I got it: 200 GBP) with a 7000$ one)...

HOWEVER, when a friend of mine, under my guidance bought the PX330, the feeling was different... Less satisfactory than I found my PX 110 to be. And the same applies to the PX 350 that I tried in Frankfurt in 2013... :-/ so not sure what's going on.

Regardless the Privia series is a solid series, selling quite well, doing great and very very reasonably priced!

Re: Casio px key action
Tritium #2166490 10/15/13 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tritium
Originally Posted by StarvingLion
There is no $1300 stage piano that even exists to compare to the $500 Casio trisensor. The $1000 P-155 has a better sound engine, speakers, and overall playing experience than the $500 casio. It feels and sounds like an actual upright acoustic. The lack of a 3rd sensor makes no difference whatsoever.


Typical...you completely ignore the subject at hand, and the recent commentary. Your statement that there isn't a $1300 "stage piano" to directly compare to Casio...this is relevant, how?

What, is this state of affairs somehow Casio's fault ??

Also, I have no idea why you have suddenly specified and focused upon a "stage piano" (slab style). I am not clear as to how that is germane to this discussion...especially since my original post concerned the Casio PX-850, and how (in my opinion) it's action was as good as DPs costing twice as much.

Of course, as you are an admitted beginner, I fully expect you have no appreciation for the difference between a two and three-sensor key system. In any event, I suspect that reproducing the action of an acoustic Upright was not exactly the goal Yamaha was shooting for, with their P-155.

Furthermore, the fact that I am even bothering to reply to you, at all, speaks to the degree of inebriation I currently find myself in. It is a holiday, and the Patriots and Red Sox both had miraculous wins last night.

P.S. -- The Yamaha P-155 is a fine digital piano. I tried one before ultimately deciding on the Casio PX-850. I preferred the PX-850 for many reasons, the most important being quality of action, keyboard responsiveness, piano tones, as well as sound/speaker quality. My humble opinion, of course.


I could choose a different piano such as the MP10. You have made it plainly obvious that the Px-850 console is better for classical music than the MP10 because of a 3rd sensor and other crap like grand piano lid simulation, Multi-
Dimensional Morphing AiR Sound ...

Sorry, but even a novice such as myself understands that digitals only sound acceptable through high quality headphones. Consoles are for vanity and serve no functional purpose.

Spread the word to the rest of the useless technology crusaders. "Rejoice, The $1000 Casio is better than the $2500 MP10" ...the engineer has spoken.

Re: Casio px key action
StarvingLion #2166502 10/15/13 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Consoles are for vanity and serve no functional purpose.


Ask your wife/girlfriend what she prefers in living room - console or stage piano...

Last edited by jarosujo; 10/15/13 04:41 AM.

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Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166503 10/15/13 04:42 AM
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@Tritium, it certainly doesn't hurt either that PX-850 is rather new, while P-155 is from 2009.


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Re: Casio px key action
StarvingLion #2166517 10/15/13 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Spread the word to the rest of the useless technology crusaders. "Rejoice, The $1000 Casio is better than the $2500 MP10" ...the engineer has spoken.


perhaps a $2500 DP is just overpriced and the Casio one is right on the money.

I know Roland's are. smile


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Re: Casio px key action
jazzyclassical #2166625 10/15/13 10:16 AM
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"Furthermore, the fact that I am even bothering to reply to you, at all, speaks to the degree of inebriation I currently find myself in. It is a holiday, and the Patriots and Red Sox both had miraculous wins last night."

Well said! or as they used to say in England; "Bottoms up"


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Casio px key action
peterws #2166754 10/15/13 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws


Well said! or as they used to say in England; "Bottoms up"


And Cheers to you, and all my brothers (and sisters) in the U.K. thumb

Last edited by Tritium; 10/15/13 04:11 PM.
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