 |
Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
|
|
|
|
72 members (bcalvanese, amc252, akse0435, 20/20 Vision, benkeys, apianostudent, Bellyman, AlkansBookcase, 14 invisible),
2,076
guests, and
317
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
1000 Post Club Member
|
OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588 |
I've never really played a grand I don't think. I own a digital and practice on an upright at lessons but my question is this. Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?
music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391 |
The action of an upright is always different than that of a grand. In an upright, the strings are vertical and the hammers have to hit the strings from a different position, like when you are knocking on a door. In a grand, the strings are horizontal and the hammers lie underneath the strings and move up (toward the ceiling) to strike from below.
The action in a grand is much more efficient and accurate (for more technical details, you may want to post on the Piano Forum). Also, you can have longer strings on the grand, and the longer, the better quality sound you get - all other things being equal (well-regulated, in good working order, etc.).
As far as which is easier to play, that depends entirely on the instrument. Some makers tend to have heavier actions while others are lighter. I've played on some uprights with heavy action and some with very light actions, same goes for grands.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,115
2000 Post Club Member
|
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,115 |
Grands feel different from uprights, generally speaking. But there's more variation between pianos of the same class than between pianos of different classes.
The average grand action feels a little heavier than the average upright action. It's easier to control your dynamics on a grand and you can play repeated notes faster.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607 |
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright. A new upright is still far better than any digital including the most expensive stuff to a beginner.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588 |
I just wanted to add I feel real let down lately that my playing is limited to my digital and that I am not learning on a real acoustic. I feel like it's taking away the value of it.
music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607 |
Don't be. You can be very productive practicing on a digital even though they all sound very fake. A lot of progress could be made on a digital. If it is a digital or nothing at all, it is still possible to make a lot of progress on a digital.
To re-enforce proper technique, you need to practice at the digital as if it was an acoustic piano. It's helpful to have someone show you exactly how to practice, the techniques required to make different kinds of sounds, and if possible play at least once or twice a week on a real piano, like lessons.
Just because you have an acoustic doesn't automatically translate into better skills. My teacher has many students learning on a Yamaha P85. You would be surprised how much could be done with that lowly device given proper instruction and weekly re-enforced on a teacher's grand piano. Ideally you should have a good practice piano and a good teacher, but if you could only have one or the other, I'd choose the teacher over the acoustic. Obviously, this is addressing the learning aspect, not the enjoyment and inspirational aspect of piano.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588 |
Don't be. You can be very productive practicing on a digital even though they all sound very fake. A lot of progress could be made on a digital. If it is a digital or nothing at all, it is still possible to make a lot of progress on a digital.
To re-enforce proper technique, you need to practice at the digital as if it was an acoustic piano. It's helpful to have someone show you exactly how to practice, the techniques required to make different kinds of sounds, and if possible play at least once or twice a week on a real piano, like lessons.
Just because you have an acoustic doesn't automatically translate into better skills. My teacher has many students learning on a Yamaha P85. You would be surprised how much could be done with that lowly device given proper instruction and weekly re-enforced on a teacher's grand piano. Ideally you should have a good practice piano and a good teacher, but if you could only have one or the other, I'd choose the teacher over the acoustic. Obviously, this is addressing the learning aspect, not the enjoyment and inspirational aspect of piano. Cool. Thanks
music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
4000 Post Club Member
|
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765 |
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright. But it is still a fact that the piano you practice on can affect your progress, no matter what level you are on. I have wasted a lot of time trying to learn what my teacher teachers (on a good grand) while practicing with my (new) upright. The action and keys are just too difficult for me to play in many ways causing a lot of tension. I have tried numerous grands and uprights and found them all much more comfortable to play.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 190
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 190 |
I was recently able to play on a 1 year old grand and it was so strange compared to my upright. I found it VERY hard to press enough sound out of the keys, they were a lot more stiff and 'hard' than I'm used to. Once I got the hang of it it was ok, but wow what an eyeopener to how different pianos can be! The lady's other piano, an upright, had a vastly different sound to it than mine (in tune but 'different'), and the keys were easier to press so I overdid it until I moderated my playing.
I think it's really important to have experience of different types and brands of pianos, there is so much variety just in uprights, let alone between DP and acoustic.
Last edited by Jessiebear; 10/15/13 01:54 AM. Reason: scphelling
Inspired by Einaudi and Tiersen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391 |
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright. But it is still a fact that the piano you practice on can affect your progress, no matter what level you are on. I have wasted a lot of time trying to learn what my teacher teachers (on a good grand) while practicing with my (new) upright. The action and keys are just too difficult for me to play in many ways causing a lot of tension. I have tried numerous grands and uprights and found them all much more comfortable to play. I, too, do not submit to the idea that it's OK for a beginner to be on a less than ideal instrument just because they aren't playing demanding music. 1) Playing on a beautiful, responsive instrument is inspiring at any level 2) You do not want your instrument to limit your growth. If it is not capable of things, you will not do them because you simply will not know it was possible 3) Pianos aren't cheap. If you can afford a grand, but get a digital first because you think a beginner doesn't need a grand, and then you upgrade to an acoustic upright, and then finally to a grand, you've purchased 3 pianos when you could have just purchased one. If one isn't sure they want to buy a piano, renting a piano for 6 months and then buying (usually the rental payments go towards the purchase of a piano) is a good option.
private piano/voice teacher FT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870
5000 Post Club Member
|
|
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,870 |
>Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?
Yes. To me uprights feel heavier on average, and grands lighter.
Technically they are probably the same as there is a more or less standardized key weight. But I guess that the action is better balanced on a grand.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 120
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 120 |
I can not speak to the keys on all uprights, but my Schimmel upright doesn't have heavier keys compared to playing my teacher's grand. In fact I think sometime my teacher's piano has slightly heavier keys, but this could be just from the fact I only get a chance to play the piano once a week.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
4000 Post Club Member
|
|
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765 |
I have found all grands much easier to play than uprights, regardless of the key weight. My hands just seem to "fit" better. I think it has something to do with the key length and my hand shape and the way I sit.
There's also a psychological dimension to this: I have noticed that if the action of the piano is not responsive enough I have a tendency to try to compensate with too much force which creates tension and the keys start feeling heavier than what they actually are.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
|
|
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 10,512 |
>Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?
Yes. To me uprights feel heavier on average, and grands lighter.
Technically they are probably the same as there is a more or less standardized key weight. But I guess that the action is better balanced on a grand.
It`s maybe worth noting (maybe not) that the action on cheap digitals is lighter than on expensive ones. So they would be more amenable to practice on if you want to replicate a grand. The silence is deafening . . . . 
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Joplinbadgetiny.jpg) "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607 |
We often focus on weight, but actually, this is not the most critical difference for me. Once there is a down force of 50 g or so, the most important difference between any DP and a grand / upright piano is the way the sound comes out depending on the motion of the down stroke. There is a huge difference between acoustics and digitals, and also within acoustics, a difference between grand and upright. Weight is not the issue, a little more, a little less is not a big deal. It's this down stroke motion to sound element that is the most important aspect that separate digitals from acoustics.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 201
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 201 |
I've worked on dozens of uprights, repairing them, playing, etc. I've also played dozens of grands from Steinway to Bechstein to Baldwin to Yamaha and Kawaii and etc. I own a DP and other electric pianos and I also own an old grand.
Most uprights are either on par with the action of a grand or far-far easier to play. They always tend to have an ease to the weight on the keys. Grands always seem to need some work, compared to the uprights.
However, I always find myself able to get a better range of emotion on a grand. When I play grands, assuming they aren't hellishly difficult, I can really go from soft to pounding and develop a better range of expressivity. The easy keys of uprights limit that ability. Or so I have experienced. Nothing wrong with uprights, but I enjoy grands more.
Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"What The World Needs Now"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
1000 Post Club Member
|
|
OP
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588 |
I've never really played a grand. I question if I'd even be able to depress the keys. I'm sure its nothing like the action on my Yamaha arias 141 digital. Or is it?
music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 61
Full Member
|
|
Full Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 61 |
I've never really played a grand. I question if I'd even be able to depress the keys. I'm sure its nothing like the action on my Yamaha arias 141 digital. Or is it? I have a fairly good digital, weighted keys, etc. I played it for a few months and then got a grand. Now, on the rare occasion when I try to use the digital, some notes will sound twice, in fast succession. It's startling. My assumption is that my fingers, through perhaps excess weight on the keys, i.e. sticking to the keys (a favourite annoying habit) I am triggering the key to play twice. Anybody else have this experience? Forstergirl
|
|
|
|
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,273
Members111,634
| |
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/RedDotMedalSmall.jpg)
