Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
82 registered members (Apoptosis, Almaviva, Bambers, Bill Bremmer RPT, Agent88, anamnesis, 16 invisible), 1,721 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2166042 - 10/14/13 11:31 AM Upright vs Grand?  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
findingnemo2010 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
findingnemo2010  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
I've never really played a grand I don't think. I own a digital and practice on an upright at lessons but my question is this. Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2166050 - 10/14/13 11:56 AM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,163
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,163
Boynton Beach, FL
The action of an upright is always different than that of a grand. In an upright, the strings are vertical and the hammers have to hit the strings from a different position, like when you are knocking on a door. In a grand, the strings are horizontal and the hammers lie underneath the strings and move up (toward the ceiling) to strike from below.

The action in a grand is much more efficient and accurate (for more technical details, you may want to post on the Piano Forum). Also, you can have longer strings on the grand, and the longer, the better quality sound you get - all other things being equal (well-regulated, in good working order, etc.).

As far as which is easier to play, that depends entirely on the instrument. Some makers tend to have heavier actions while others are lighter. I've played on some uprights with heavy action and some with very light actions, same goes for grands.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2166057 - 10/14/13 12:04 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,741
Whizbang Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Whizbang  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,741
Grands feel different from uprights, generally speaking. But there's more variation between pianos of the same class than between pianos of different classes.

The average grand action feels a little heavier than the average upright action. It's easier to control your dynamics on a grand and you can play repeated notes faster.


Whizbang [Linked Image]
amateur ragtime pianist
https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeschala
#2166109 - 10/14/13 01:07 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright. A new upright is still far better than any digital including the most expensive stuff to a beginner.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2166154 - 10/14/13 02:20 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
findingnemo2010 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
findingnemo2010  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
I just wanted to add I feel real let down lately that my playing is limited to my digital and that I am not learning on a real acoustic. I feel like it's taking away the value of it.


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
#2166167 - 10/14/13 02:51 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
Don't be. You can be very productive practicing on a digital even though they all sound very fake. A lot of progress could be made on a digital. If it is a digital or nothing at all, it is still possible to make a lot of progress on a digital.
To re-enforce proper technique, you need to practice at the digital as if it was an acoustic piano. It's helpful to have someone show you exactly how to practice, the techniques required to make different kinds of sounds, and if possible play at least once or twice a week on a real piano, like lessons.

Just because you have an acoustic doesn't automatically translate into better skills. My teacher has many students learning on a Yamaha P85. You would be surprised how much could be done with that lowly device given proper instruction and weekly re-enforced on a teacher's grand piano. Ideally you should have a good practice piano and a good teacher, but if you could only have one or the other, I'd choose the teacher over the acoustic. Obviously, this is addressing the learning aspect, not the enjoyment and inspirational aspect of piano.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
#2166169 - 10/14/13 02:57 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
findingnemo2010 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
findingnemo2010  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
Originally Posted by 4evrBeginR
Don't be. You can be very productive practicing on a digital even though they all sound very fake. A lot of progress could be made on a digital. If it is a digital or nothing at all, it is still possible to make a lot of progress on a digital.
To re-enforce proper technique, you need to practice at the digital as if it was an acoustic piano. It's helpful to have someone show you exactly how to practice, the techniques required to make different kinds of sounds, and if possible play at least once or twice a week on a real piano, like lessons.

Just because you have an acoustic doesn't automatically translate into better skills. My teacher has many students learning on a Yamaha P85. You would be surprised how much could be done with that lowly device given proper instruction and weekly re-enforced on a teacher's grand piano. Ideally you should have a good practice piano and a good teacher, but if you could only have one or the other, I'd choose the teacher over the acoustic. Obviously, this is addressing the learning aspect, not the enjoyment and inspirational aspect of piano.

Cool. Thanks


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
#2166388 - 10/14/13 11:06 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,180
outo Offline
3000 Post Club Member
outo  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,180
Finland
Originally Posted by 4evrBeginR
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright.


But it is still a fact that the piano you practice on can affect your progress, no matter what level you are on. I have wasted a lot of time trying to learn what my teacher teachers (on a good grand) while practicing with my (new) upright. The action and keys are just too difficult for me to play in many ways causing a lot of tension. I have tried numerous grands and uprights and found them all much more comfortable to play.

#2166446 - 10/15/13 12:53 AM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 190
Jessiebear Offline
Full Member
Jessiebear  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 190
New Zealand
I was recently able to play on a 1 year old grand and it was so strange compared to my upright. I found it VERY hard to press enough sound out of the keys, they were a lot more stiff and 'hard' than I'm used to. Once I got the hang of it it was ok, but wow what an eyeopener to how different pianos can be! The lady's other piano, an upright, had a vastly different sound to it than mine (in tune but 'different'), and the keys were easier to press so I overdid it until I moderated my playing.

I think it's really important to have experience of different types and brands of pianos, there is so much variety just in uprights, let alone between DP and acoustic.


Last edited by Jessiebear; 10/15/13 12:54 AM. Reason: scphelling

Inspired by Einaudi and Tiersen.
#2166532 - 10/15/13 06:40 AM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: outo]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,163
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,163
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by 4evrBeginR
At a very high level, the grand piano action has many advantages over the upright, but for a beginner, the differences is a bit over blown on these forums. I find playing trills and mordents a bit more effort on an upright. The action is a little less responsive (comparing brand new to brand new). Otherwise, you should have no issues getting pretty far with your studies on an upright.


But it is still a fact that the piano you practice on can affect your progress, no matter what level you are on. I have wasted a lot of time trying to learn what my teacher teachers (on a good grand) while practicing with my (new) upright. The action and keys are just too difficult for me to play in many ways causing a lot of tension. I have tried numerous grands and uprights and found them all much more comfortable to play.
I, too, do not submit to the idea that it's OK for a beginner to be on a less than ideal instrument just because they aren't playing demanding music.

1) Playing on a beautiful, responsive instrument is inspiring at any level
2) You do not want your instrument to limit your growth. If it is not capable of things, you will not do them because you simply will not know it was possible
3) Pianos aren't cheap. If you can afford a grand, but get a digital first because you think a beginner doesn't need a grand, and then you upgrade to an acoustic upright, and then finally to a grand, you've purchased 3 pianos when you could have just purchased one. If one isn't sure they want to buy a piano, renting a piano for 6 months and then buying (usually the rental payments go towards the purchase of a piano) is a good option.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2167763 - 10/17/13 02:49 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,870
wouter79 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
wouter79  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,870
>Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?

Yes. To me uprights feel heavier on average, and grands lighter.

Technically they are probably the same as there is a more or less standardized key weight. But I guess that the action is better balanced on a grand.



[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2167878 - 10/17/13 08:27 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: wouter79]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 120
IreneAdler Offline
Full Member
IreneAdler  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 120
Washington
I can not speak to the keys on all uprights, but my Schimmel upright doesn't have heavier keys compared to playing my teacher's grand. In fact I think sometime my teacher's piano has slightly heavier keys, but this could be just from the fact I only get a chance to play the piano once a week.

#2167930 - 10/17/13 11:35 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: IreneAdler]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,180
outo Offline
3000 Post Club Member
outo  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,180
Finland
I have found all grands much easier to play than uprights, regardless of the key weight. My hands just seem to "fit" better. I think it has something to do with the key length and my hand shape and the way I sit.

There's also a psychological dimension to this: I have noticed that if the action of the piano is not responsive enough I have a tendency to try to compensate with too much force which creates tension and the keys start feeling heavier than what they actually are.

#2167976 - 10/18/13 03:00 AM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: wouter79]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,574
peterws Offline
6000 Post Club Member
peterws  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,574
Northern England.
Originally Posted by wouter79
>Is the feel or action very different between an upright and a grand or is it similar? Does it take more to press the keys down on a grand or is it easier?

Yes. To me uprights feel heavier on average, and grands lighter.

Technically they are probably the same as there is a more or less standardized key weight. But I guess that the action is better balanced on a grand.



It`s maybe worth noting (maybe not) that the action on cheap digitals is lighter than on expensive ones. So they would be more amenable to practice on if you want to replicate a grand.

The silence is deafening . . . . grin


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
#2168149 - 10/18/13 01:30 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: peterws]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
We often focus on weight, but actually, this is not the most critical difference for me. Once there is a down force of 50 g or so, the most important difference between any DP and a grand / upright piano is the way the sound comes out depending on the motion of the down stroke. There is a huge difference between acoustics and digitals, and also within acoustics, a difference between grand and upright. Weight is not the issue, a little more, a little less is not a big deal. It's this down stroke motion to sound element that is the most important aspect that separate digitals from acoustics.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
#2169124 - 10/20/13 07:54 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 201
Rusty Fortysome Offline
Full Member
Rusty Fortysome  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 201
USA
I've worked on dozens of uprights, repairing them, playing, etc. I've also played dozens of grands from Steinway to Bechstein to Baldwin to Yamaha and Kawaii and etc. I own a DP and other electric pianos and I also own an old grand.

Most uprights are either on par with the action of a grand or far-far easier to play. They always tend to have an ease to the weight on the keys. Grands always seem to need some work, compared to the uprights.

However, I always find myself able to get a better range of emotion on a grand. When I play grands, assuming they aren't hellishly difficult, I can really go from soft to pounding and develop a better range of expressivity. The easy keys of uprights limit that ability. Or so I have experienced. Nothing wrong with uprights, but I enjoy grands more.


Currently working on/memorizing...
"It's You" from Robotech
"He's A Pirate"
"Crazy Bone Rag"
"What The World Needs Now"
#2169173 - 10/20/13 09:33 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
findingnemo2010 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
findingnemo2010  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,588
I've never really played a grand. I question if I'd even be able to depress the keys. I'm sure its nothing like the action on my Yamaha arias 141 digital. Or is it?


music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain
#2169512 - 10/21/13 12:30 PM Re: Upright vs Grand? [Re: findingnemo2010]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 61
Forstergirl Offline
Full Member
Forstergirl  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 61
Ontario
Originally Posted by findingnemo2010
I've never really played a grand. I question if I'd even be able to depress the keys. I'm sure its nothing like the action on my Yamaha arias 141 digital. Or is it?


I have a fairly good digital, weighted keys, etc. I played it for a few months and then got a grand. Now, on the rare occasion when I try to use the digital, some notes will sound twice, in fast succession. It's startling. My assumption is that my fingers, through perhaps excess weight on the keys, i.e. sticking to the keys (a favourite annoying habit) I am triggering the key to play twice. Anybody else have this experience?

Forstergirl


Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Experience with Redbird, Concertpianos, and “Maestro”?
by Duke of Dunning. 11/21/17 06:26 PM
Fujan tuning lever lost
by Toni Goldener. 11/21/17 03:16 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,875
Posts2,673,384
Members89,168
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0