Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Possible Yamaha CP4 in the future?

I wanted to say that CP5 NW-Stage is more thumpy than RD-700NX, but my Roland sits on carpet and the CP5 on a hard floor, so I can't say that. Anyone know if GC San Jose has CP4 on display yet? I'll have to swing by and check some time. Modesto GC only stocks entry level DPs.

CP4 = SW piano killer? I don't have a sample of the CP4 yet, but I'd be surprised if the loops don't all inappropriately quiver together during the pedal sympathetic resonance test (chord held with pedal up), as almost all Yamaha DPs (and others) do. Say what you will about SN, but it doesn't misbehave this way, as neither do fully sampled SW pianos.

We all like to dream I suppose, but this is pretty wild speculation given the fact that we all know the CP4 isn't exactly a revolutionary product in the sound department. I'm not following it all that closely, but it seems to be a repackaged amalgam of stuff Yamaha has previously released. If so, then you get excited about it in proportion to how well that package fits your portability / keyboard feel / sound set / purchase price needs, and not because it does something fundamentally new.

I wonder how much blowback (i.e. recirculation of planted information) plays into it all?

1. Marketing touts a feature,
2. which trains the consumer to want it,
3. so the well-trained consumer demands it.
4. Every other blue moon marketing sort of listens to consumers, and so tells the engineers to include the feature in more products.

But grading is a feature that costs almost nothing to include, so I wonder how much they really even think about it being perceived as a negative by some customers.


One could easily drill out the weights on PHAIII to remove the grading, but it would take an afternoon. The grading isn't all that pronounced anyway, but if I played it all the time I'd probably do it.

As usual from one extreme to the other..... I love him

No, its even worse than I predicted. More and more people are coming in here with a budget of *much* less than a $1000. They probably don't even have a dedicated computer up to the job of software pianos and certainly won't buy one.

Lets face it, advanced but much too heavy and expensive stage pianos like the CP1, V-Piano, MP10, RD700nx are obsolete. I predict the CP4 is the successor to the CP1. And its 50% less in price than the CP1. It is staking ground in the $2K space. Cripes, they're still asking $2800 for a MP10 around here. Forget it, Kawai...

My es7 still looks, sound and feels amazing and I got it with the stand and pedal unit for £1136 or $1822 it will definitely satisfy me for a long time to come.

Yamaha is well overpriced here in the UK wooden keys or not

I was at GC again, mostly because they are having a Columbus Day special 15% off most everything. The sales guy said he would apply the discount to the CP4 and sell for $1,869.15 - in stock and ready to go.

(PLEASE Kawai, hurry with releasing new MP series! This kind of temptation is killing me.)

That's a great price - can you get me one too?

James
x

I'll gladly get you one if you get me a MP7. Deal?

++1 ...same here. I'm still waiting , but the clock is ticking and patience is running out...; many interesting deals have come and gone in the meantime and some large sales are coming up soon due to 'anniversaries' at some dealers and shops. New CP4 and what else will be on the table will go for much less than normal. Meanwhile there's no single tangible clue (teaser / pics of parts / release indication ?) of 'what' and 'when' regarding new Kawai gear. With the VPC1 Kawai started running the teaser website a while before fully introducing the board. Doing so for new MP's would hold off some people (like me) giving into the attempt of buying another brand , before we can compare it to the Kawai offerings.

Right on JFP! Even a teaser campaign like the VPC1 would be great at this point.

The MP10 is much better than the CP4 in terms of replicating the acoustic piano experience; it also does a god job as a controller; however, the CP4 is much lighter, so it's probably more practical for gigging. Just imagine how much better the MP11 will be. Honestly, I'd wait for ever for the new MP line (teaser or no teaser). For God's sake, I've been waiting for quite a while for a Kawai hybrid (real action), and as far as I know, they haven't even started developing the thing. I'm patient, Kawai; I'll wait for every NAMM like a child waits by the Christmas tree. Sooner or later my toy will be standing by the tree.

If you need to buy a stage piano today, there are plenty of great options available from Roland, Yamaha, Kawai, Korg, Casio, Nord, etc. - take your pick. If the currently available boards are not suitable or unappealing (for whatever reason), by all means, hold onto your money and wait to see what the future holds.

However, I don't understand this notion that manufacturers should rush-out new products simply because a handful of folks online are growing impatient. New instruments are in development, of course, however they will become available when they're finished. Just because Yamaha have recently launched the new CP4 and CP40, it does not necessarily mean that Roland, Kawai, and other stage piano manufactures must suddenly bring their production and sales schedules forward.

Also, JFP, I was under the impression that your next DP would be a more traditional console-type form factor, after the VPC1+stand+computer+speakers setup proved unsuitable for the living room. If this is indeed the case, may I ask why you're waiting so expectantly for an MP announcement?



Which perhaps suggests that the new Kawai gear you're interested in is some way off.



According to my records, I uploaded the first VPC1 teaser on the 9th January - two weeks before the product was announced at NAMM. I know you're an impatient chap, but a fortnight can hardly be considered 'a while'.



Again, if you need to buy a stage piano today, there are plenty of great options available from all of the main manufacturers. If you're not in such a great hurry, it may be worthwhile waiting to see what new models are announced in the future.

Cheers,
James
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PIcking up from what KJ just said, on another forum, someone was just complaining about a product being announced long before they were ready to ship, saying that it seemed like just a scheme to try to stop people from buying competitive products for who knows how long while they waited to finish theirs!

The only companies that can even think about getting away with that are companies for whom the product in question is in a new category for them, i.e. it doesn't compete with their existing models. If Yamaha had announced the CP4/40 six months before they could ship it, one thing that would have done would have been to put a "damper" on six months worth of potential CP1/5/50 sales. What would an announcement of a hypothetical 6+ month out VPC2 do to current VPC1 sales? It makes no sense to tease about such a thing. That's ostensibly how Osborne computer went out of business... they announced a new computer model, everyone stopped buying the old one, and Osborne then didn't last long enough to ever come out with the new model.

Like KJ said, if you need something now, pick the best for you of what's available now. If you can wait, there will always be something better coming... and when that ships, there will always still be something still newer on the horizon from someone else. But you can comfort yourself by knowing that, whatever new thing comes out that everyone was waiting for, once it actually ships, there will be people posting here to complain about everything that's wrong with it. ;-)

My back is still sore from the weekend - CP4 can't get here fast enough.

There is an even better strategy for some: Buy a discounted instrument that was/is top of the range in the class you are interested in but is just being phased out when you buy. I.e. buy a CP5 now which in so many ways is a fine if not excellent instrument, and is proven to be so for quite a while.

That will save you a lot of money and will definitely rule out buyer's remorse on the grounds that something new is announced a minute after you buy, for the simple reason it was announced just before you buy....

Hi James,

You're absolutely right on the 180 degree turns I may show !

Console style piano was indeed in the picture , but along the way I decided I am not a cabinet style DP enthousiast after all, however much my partner would like to see a classy upright in our house instead of a stage with external gear. I always had either 88 key workstations and/or stage pianos with or without second tier (or third) and that suits me well, especially since chances are big I'll take it out on the road again.

After trying so many boards, the keybed of the high-end KAWAI's remain my top favorite. That's why I am so curious what the new stages will bring in updated features and perhaps some small weight reductions. We're just little, unsatisfyable boys who keep impatiently asking how many nights of sleep our birthday is still away. Every hour ...twice ;-)

As for the rushing to market of new products; why not if a new hot-selling competing product lures away potential customers that would otherwise be interested in buying a new board from your company ? Every CP, RD-NX, or Nord buyer is one person who doesn't buy a Kawai product at that moment, but might have if a new and competing product was around. I would certainly step on the pedal and try to speed up development and production in that case. In the meantime lowering the price of the current line a bit to take some sales back from the competition and clear out stock before the new products appear.

It's a dynamic marked: if someone comes out with a threatening product you should counter that as soon as possible with an equally good, or better product in the same price range and/ or make current products more competitive by lowering the price to a level in that it doesn't have to directly compete with that new product and poses a cheaper but good alternative. Or don't sell and keep on sitting on a pile of stock. Whatever is preferred ...

New models don't appear by magic. Most companies are probably always working on development, I don't think they typically work leisurely or do nothing until they see what someone else does. And if they actually do have to scrap some of their work and change their plans based on competition, it probably means that new product will come out even later rather than sooner.


Cutting the price is something that can be done much more quickly! But also can only do so much good, because at some point, it becomes self-defeating to cut price to the point of being insufficiently profitable.

The other option you didn't mention is to emphasize whatever advantages your model still has, because no competitor is going to beat it in every way from A to Z.

Ok, my last post on this subject - its is a CP4 threat after all ; so to prove my point -

The CP4 is just out and features :

- excellent keybed with triple sensor
- great AP sound, based on three very different sample sets for varying styles
- great EP sound
- easy user interface
- some master keyboard functions
- audio in
- internal power supply
- enough I/O and pedal inputs
- useful and large pallet of additional sounds
- 17.5 kg
- relatively small footprint / overall size
- price € 1999

MP10 has been on the market for a while:

- excellent keybed without triple sensor
- great AP sound , but based on same , or pretty similar sample set. Nothing wrong with that , but presets have the same basic character, so less obvious variation for styles.
- great EP sound
- easy user interface
- some master keyboard functions
- audio in
- internal power supply
- enough I/O and pedal inputs
- quite small and limited additional pallet of sounds
- 31.8 kg !!
- large footprint / overall size
- price € 2000 ~ € 2200

To be honest I don't see many reasons why one would pick the MP10 over the CP4 as a stage piano. The MP10 is an excellent and classy board, but it is so much more bulky and heavier than the Yammie AND misses the third sensor that's becoming sort of standard these days for keybeds AND is relatively 'old' compared to the freshly introduced Yamaha. So considering the price , it's already a tough choice for people who just put it fixed in the studio, but a no-brainer for giggers who will greatly value the weight difference. Unless the MP10 was so much cheaper, it would be interesting to put up with the extra weight and live with it (or hire roadies for the price difference ;-) Same goes for RD700NX etc. They've been around and something new enters offering roughly the same but with less weight and for less money. How many are you still going to sell without lowering the price point. Look at what Yammie is doing to the CP5 prices - really way below CP4 to keep sales going.

Ok back on topic : CP4 talk

Point taken, but remember that the CP4 keybed and MP10 keybed are not the same. Even if you may rate both as excellent, some people may find one far superior to the other and be willing to pay for the difference.

If we are taking votes, though, put me down for wanting the MP10 to be cheaper or replaced with a newer and better model.