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Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 #2163002
10/07/13 12:37 PM
10/07/13 12:37 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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To the current owners of Kawai CA65/CA95/CS7/CS10 who practice using headphones, what are your settings to achieve best sound quality?

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Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163003
10/07/13 12:43 PM
10/07/13 12:43 PM
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Emiliano Offline
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I'll tell you in a week, I get my CS7 delivered this coming saturday...yaaaay smile

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163057
10/07/13 03:35 PM
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Psychonaut Offline
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For under $100, I think these are outstanding:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATH-M40FS-Professional-Precision-Headphones/dp/B0002D03ZW

But if I had the $$$, I'd probably upgrade to the ATH-M50.


Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163068
10/07/13 04:18 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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Psychonaut - What I meant to say was the settings in the menu of the piano itself.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163080
10/07/13 04:56 PM
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mabraman Offline
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I don´t own any of those DPs, but as a Kawai user, and supposing that the sound signature is the same (and the final sound similar):

-Mellow Grand 1 with a bright voicing, the best sound to my ears.
-When I first played it, I had some low-end cans which rise the middle frequencies, and the sound was unbearable. I had to set the mid-bass and highs down to -2db.
-Now, with better headphones which rise the bass a bit, and lower the high tones a bit, too, I get a more pleasant tone, though some brilliance and amplitude has been lost in the way (hence the bright voicing). Here, reverb makes sense.
-Another thing to tweak is the string resonance (default values are better, or at least healthier, than higher ones to my ears, but just through headphones).
-Noise effects off.
-Volume about 1/3.
-Some more bass makes the sound fatter.

I've come to think that what makes the sound realistic on speakers, is too much (to me) on headphones. Besides, there's some electronic trace in the sound that's more obvious when using cans.

May I ask why are you asking for some help on this matter?

Sorry in advance if I made too obvious comments.


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163107
10/07/13 05:42 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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mabraman - As much as I loved to own a CS7/CS10 (in fact, I placed an order for a CS10 which I canceled later), I had to settle for a CA65 due to heavy back order status for the CS line in the US at this time. I upgraded from a much cheaper Casio AP-620 and use the DP mainly to practice at night using my Sony MDR-V6 headphones. To my ears, using the same headphone, the sound coming out from the CA65 is far inferior to the Casio in spite of the fact that the CA65 is a much higher quality, and more expensive, DP. I tried both "reverb" on and off on many Piano settings but the sound still seems very mono, electronic, and artificial. The sound through headphones on the Casio is crystal clear and lively with a stereo sense. I'm hoping to learn from other Kawai owners about what settings to use to improve the sound quality via the headphone ports.

Last edited by Delphian2001; 10/07/13 06:14 PM.
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163116
10/07/13 06:03 PM
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Emiliano Offline
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Delphian, sounds like you're not satisfied with the sound quality of your CA65...

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163119
10/07/13 06:13 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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Only the sound coming out from the headphones. The system speakers sound great and powerful, no complaints there.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163186
10/07/13 10:09 PM
10/07/13 10:09 PM
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semo Offline
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Delphian2001, have you tried another pair of headphones? Some headphones "color" the sound coming out from the DP.

For me, I usually choose Concert Grand, no reverb, other settings set to default, volume at 1/3 on the slider when I am using headphones. With speaker/soundboard, I usually set the volume to 2/3. The lows sound deeper when using the speakers/soundboard. With the headphones, the sound is pretty crisp and bright across the range consistently. In short, the speaker/soundboard sounds more realistic, but the sound coming out from the headphones is also very nice.

hth.


CA95, Sennheiser HD598
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163205
10/07/13 10:51 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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semo - the Sony MDR-V6 headphones are recording studio standard and most professional recording studios use these headphones for monitoring because of their natural and uncolored nature. The fact that these when paired with the Casio produced great sound proves they are great. I don't see why these cannot be used with the CA65 and give good results.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163213
10/07/13 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Delphian2001
Psychonaut - What I meant to say was the settings in the menu of the piano itself.


My bad... I should pay better attention.


Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163233
10/08/13 12:38 AM
10/08/13 12:38 AM
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Slovakia
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Originally Posted by Delphian2001
semo - the Sony MDR-V6 headphones are recording studio standard and most professional recording studios use these headphones for monitoring because of their natural and uncolored nature. The fact that these when paired with the Casio produced great sound proves they are great. I don't see why these cannot be used with the CA65 and give good results.


Still try another headphones - I have 4 different headphones and I checked them with different piano sound sources (on-board/Pianoteq/Galaxy D). Result is that I would use different headphones for each source to achieve best sound to my ears. For example I liked AKG for on-board but Koss for Pianoteq...


Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163241
10/08/13 01:05 AM
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helloworld1 Offline
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Senneiheiser 650D is the best. You do not any upgrade later on.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163289
10/08/13 05:50 AM
10/08/13 05:50 AM
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Jean-Luc Offline
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Originally Posted by Delphian2001
To the current owners of Kawai CA65/CA95/CS7/CS10 who practice using headphones, what are your settings to achieve best sound quality?


It will depend on your cans. I used my CA-65 with 3 different headphones (all 3 Sennheiser) and strangely enough, I have to set the "phone volume" setting of the CA-65 to "high" for only one of them, and I say "strangely enough" because it is the cheapest of the three headphones and the one with the lowest impedance (HD-590, impedance 60 ohm). The two other headphones (HD-650 and HD-800, both with and impedance of 300 ohms work both perfectly with the "phone volume" set to normal.

As for the sound quality of the CA65 with a headphone, I find it very good but of course, it varies depending on the headphones used and it sound a lot better with the tow higher end ones (both the HD650 and the HD800 sound really nice on the CA65, and the power output of the CA65, even set to "normal" is far enough to drive them comfortably).


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163295
10/08/13 06:05 AM
10/08/13 06:05 AM
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JFP Offline
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I have a Sennheiser HD 250 II Reference with 300 ohm. I was always amazed at how well these high impedance headphones worked wit the Kawai DP's I had. Other brands had way to little output to drive this set. With almost all audio interfaces (for software piano's) the story wasn't much different. Only an old EMU and a Presonus would do the trick.

I hope they keep the headphone amp and design the same with upcoming Kawai's because the headphone amp was really good IMHO and had the right impedance / drivers for professional headphone sets.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163425
10/08/13 11:51 AM
10/08/13 11:51 AM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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Jean-Luc/JFP - So in your experience with your Kawai, generally the cans with higher impedance produce better sound to your ears?

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163428
10/08/13 11:58 AM
10/08/13 11:58 AM
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Jean-Luc Offline
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Originally Posted by Delphian2001
Jean-Luc/JFP - So in your experience with your Kawai, generally the cans with higher impedance produce better sound to your ears?


I would need to have tried more headphones to be able to answer this question. I tested 3 headphones, one with a lowish impedance, two, with a rather high one. It is true that the two with higher impedance sound better but it's not necessarily tied to their impedance: the HD650 costs roughly 350€ and the HD800 costs 1000€ so it's expected that both produce a better sound than the HD590 which was a 120€ headphone set.
This being said, with a few exception, most high-end headphones have a rather highish impedance.

To put it differently, I have a rather good DAT + Headphone Amp combo (that I don't need to use for the Kawai) - Violectric DAC V800 + Violectric HPA V200 and if I connect the 3 headphones to this combo, here too the HD800 will sound by a very large margin (even a lot larger than connected to the pinao), followed by the HD650, and the HD590 will be far behind. So, the 3 headphones, independently of their impedance are already vastly different in performance.

Last edited by Jean-Luc; 10/08/13 12:03 PM.

- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163432
10/08/13 12:04 PM
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Delphian2001 Offline OP
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Jean-Luc - You have very good points, thanks.

Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163443
10/08/13 12:25 PM
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The sensitivity of the headphones overrides the impedance when it comes to the volume you hear, and probably also whether there is a need for headphones amp.

If the volume control has to be turned high up to get adequate sound through the headphones, the sound will suffer. From my experience, if the headphones don't give enough volume with an iPod, they will require an amp to use with Yamaha DPs. If the sensitivity is over 110 SPL/V, they will be adequate to use with all DPs.

But all headphones impart their own coloration to the sound, so it is also a matter of taste as to what sort of tone you like from your DP.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Best settings for headphones on CA65/95, CS7/10 [Re: Delphian2001] #2163589
10/08/13 06:30 PM
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I recall, from another thread here in the forums, that impedance has nothing to do with sound quality, as Jean Luc and Bennevis pointed before. For my DP, Kawai suggests 50-100 ohms headphones, which is what its amp can drive best.
It's interesting what the OP mentioned in the first post: the sound of Casios was better to him. I had the same experience some months ago, no matter which cans I was testing. They all sounded better. I don´t mean the DP did sound better, it was just better through headphones, clearer and less ringy.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that string and damper resonances are by default higher in the Kawais. So lowering these parameters should do the job.
What do you think?


Learning piano from scratch since September, 2012.
Kawai ES7.Kawai K-200
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