Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
137 registered members (Almaviva, amad23, Bambers, augustm, AZNpiano, barbaram, 39 invisible), 2,002 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2161056 - 10/03/13 04:22 AM Renner action on antique upright  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
Kiwisda Offline
Junior Member
Kiwisda  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
Hi. Ever since selling my 1888 Lipp upright (made in Germany; company founded in 1831)) some years ago I've been in mourning. I've now latched onto an identical piano (it might be, perhaps, one year younger). These pianos are about 150cm high (some 60"), with a terrific bass and mellow treble. I have two questions, however, regarding upright actions, and I hope someone can help me with these.
(1) Going backwards chronologically, when would you say upright actions had really not "arrived"? That is, they were noticeable inferior to subsequent action designs. I have been able to find very little on this on the internet.
(2) Can Renner actions be made for an old piano like this? I know Renner make them for many current piano makers, but I wonder if you can simply get them for an 1888 model.
I know Lipps are not well known in the States. But they are certainly well known (and extremely highly regarded) by tuners in Britain and her former colonies: that's why I'm submitting this post in the technicians forum.
Thanks everyone.

(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#2161073 - 10/03/13 06:03 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,460
Chris Leslie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Chris Leslie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,460
Canberra, ACT, Australia
Old Lipps are fairly common in my area. They are highly regarded and I put them in the same class as old Ronish, Feurich and Gors and Kallman. From about the time of your piano they seemed to be transitioning from having very long bass strings strung at a very diagonal angle, to those having more conventional stringing.
Nobody would make new actions for these pianos. If your is worn out then the best thing is to try to find a technician who will recondition the action as far as appropriate - and then, only if the rest of the piano is worthy. It may have some unconventional design. An old-piano-freindly tuner should be able to advise you.
I have come across a more modern Lipp from about the 1960s. Sadly, it was no patch on the older pianos.


Chris Leslie ARPT
Piano technician
http://www.chrisleslie.com.au
#2161074 - 10/03/13 06:05 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Hello I am not sure the actions for so tall pianos are yet produced. May be some are availeable from stock.

I believe the maximum size was 1.40 m

Now more standard actions can be modified with long wooden dowels that goes in a cylindrical hole in the keys, with a flat head screw to regulate the play.

It happens that old actions where made in first grade material, but all felts, leathers, cloths, centers, springs etc are pieces that do not age correctly and this is very expensive to change anything.

Modern actions are also intended for more massive hammers and they are a little more massive themselves.

design wise, some of them where yet "modern" in 1880, but many where not positioned correctly, use far than ideal dimensions and ratios. I believe vertical actions begin to be more consistent and viable around 1920.






Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#2161485 - 10/04/13 12:05 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Supply Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Supply  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,919
Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by Kiwisda
](1) Going backwards chronologically, when would you say upright actions had really not "arrived"? That is, they were noticeable inferior to subsequent action designs. I have been able to find very little on this on the internet.
It is not specifically a matter of date. There are piano actions from the late 1880s which lack nothing in terms of repetition, control and responsiveness, when functioning as designed.

Quote
(2) Can Renner actions be made for an old piano like this? I know Renner make them for many current piano makers, but I wonder if you can simply get them for an 1888 model.
Almost any old piano can be fitted with a new modern action. Simply? Not necessarily - it can be quite involved and costly. Renner makes only two basic actions for uprights. The larger one is fitted into all pianos larger than about 120 cm. The only variable on the larger style is the height of the wippen heel. For tall pianos, abstracts are required, and they would have been in place originally.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2161501 - 10/04/13 12:36 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,407
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,407
Oakland
Some very old vertical actions are as advanced as anything you can get now.

If I were dealing with your piano, I would make the original action work as well as possible. Chances are I could get it to work as well as any replacement.


Semipro Tech
#2161570 - 10/04/13 04:52 AM Re: Renner action on antique upright [Re: Kiwisda]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Piano and action makers where aware of pressure on bearings, direction of forces, conjugate profiles etc, but this was investigated really and more optimal solutions find since 1900 and more.

That interesting to read that Grotrian Steinweg was yet looking for less constrain on the whippen bearings in 1905, something they still do today.

The tall version of Renner actions , with abstracts, where intended for a certrain maximum distance between keybed and strike point.

Chances are that a 150cm tall piano is off limits.



Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Next General Recital 29 DAYS 11.14.2017
by piano_primo_1. 10/17/17 03:31 PM
Bela Bartok Mikrokosmos excercises
by GHN. 10/17/17 02:19 PM
NOTATION
by MICHAEL122. 10/17/17 01:20 PM
NOTATION
by MICHAEL122. 10/17/17 01:17 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,346
Posts2,665,257
Members88,982
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0