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VPC1 DPorn #2160247
09/30/13 11:20 PM
09/30/13 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
J
joflah Offline OP
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joflah  Offline OP
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Some pictures of the innards of the VPC1, which I have stripped down to install into a cabinet built for a Casio PX-120.

[Linked Image]

This link is to a PDF file with more pictures and some text, (so as not to overload the forum):
www.joflaherty.org/VPC1/VPC1_to_cabinet.pdf
The PDF file shows the mechanism of the "notch" artifact, and how to defeat it. It appears to act only on keypress, not release, so I don't know why it's called "letoff". Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

This link is to some higher resolution pictures of some internal views:
www.joflaherty.org/VPC1/images/thumbs.html



Jack
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Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160249
09/30/13 11:40 PM
09/30/13 11:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,540
US
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gvfarns Offline
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So awesome. Thanks for sharing your incredible handiwork and these nice nekkid pictures!

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160250
09/30/13 11:44 PM
09/30/13 11:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
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joflah Offline OP
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You're welcome!


Jack
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160251
09/30/13 11:57 PM
09/30/13 11:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,127
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Interesting stuff.

Thank you for posting the pics and explanation.

As a Kawai employee, it's obviously not something that I would recommend, however your enthusiasm is admirable.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160261
10/01/13 12:20 AM
10/01/13 12:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,089
uk south
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dire tonic Offline
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WOW!!! - nice work joflah! It was only a couple of days ago I was fantasizing about doing away with the let-off.

Once it's clear to me that I can't find a way to benefit from it I'll refer back to your pics.

I wonder if you're tempted yourself? My guess is it would result in a slightly lighter action.

Cheers!!

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: Kawai James] #2160267
10/01/13 12:31 AM
10/01/13 12:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,669
Hobart, Australia
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ando Online content
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Interesting stuff.

Thank you for posting the pics and explanation.

As a Kawai employee, it's obviously not something that I would recommend, however your enthusiasm is admirable.



Yes, it's enterprising, certainly. But I don't think it was worth the effort - especially since now this VPC1 is close to worthless as a sale item now.

I think it would have been just as useful to build a larger (non-destructive) cabinet to slide the VPC1 into which can equally house the computer etc. I'm just not convinced that shedding the housing of the VPC1 has achieved much.

On the other hand, I always encourage ingenuity so if you think this is a winner - more power to ya!

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160271
10/01/13 12:57 AM
10/01/13 12:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,127
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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I recall an MP10 owner who created a wood (beech, I believe...) stand that fitted around the instrument's side panels. It was a thing of beauty, however the blog site no longer exists, unfortunately.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160281
10/01/13 01:45 AM
10/01/13 01:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,675
Northern NJ
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Killer! Added to the DPs Exposed! thread.

The letoff thingie seems rather similar to the one in Roland's PHAIII escapment one-way rubber flap. In both cases there seems to be a heavy reliance on grease for proper operation. And part of me just can't believe any serious DP maker uses rubber switches, but indeed all of them do it - they must be very inexpensive and I suppose they work OK, but I worry about polymers leaching over time (I've worked on TV remotes that got oily / gummy / unreliable).

The electronics are kind of old looking for a modern device, like something from 10 years ago (though this is par for the course with DPs.) I would think a much smaller, higher density PWB would be sufficient and might actually cost less.

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160294
10/01/13 02:33 AM
10/01/13 02:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 24
Barcelona
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mdp92 Offline
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will you be installing those shoes as well? We really need heavy DPs to start walking on their own! smile

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160297
10/01/13 02:54 AM
10/01/13 02:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,410
The Netherlands
J
JFP Offline
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JFP  Offline
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The Netherlands
Hi James, I guess this doesn't void your warranty , does it ?

Interesting enough, it seems there is room enough at the back plate somewhere next to where the current circuit boards are located for a MINI PC, like a Mac mini main board. You'd have to drill a few holes for I/O , but there seems to be room...

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: JFP] #2160301
10/01/13 03:10 AM
10/01/13 03:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,127
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by JFP
Hi James, I guess this doesn't void your warranty , does it ?


I believe the warranty on Jack's VPC1 has been voided.

Originally Posted by JFP
Interesting enough, it seems there is room enough at the back plate somewhere next to where the current circuit boards are located for a MINI PC, like a Mac mini main board. You'd have to drill a few holes for I/O , but there seems to be room...


Yes, this would be my preferred route.
A pre-allocated space intended for an Intel NUC motherboard would also be pretty cool. wink

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160307
10/01/13 04:23 AM
10/01/13 04:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,410
The Netherlands
J
JFP Offline
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JFP  Offline
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J

Joined: Jul 2010
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The Netherlands
You're such a tease...

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160317
10/01/13 05:03 AM
10/01/13 05:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,345
UK
S
spanishbuddha Offline
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UK
Wow nice pics and project. Thanks.

Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160332
10/01/13 06:02 AM
10/01/13 06:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,717
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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Suffolk, United Kingdom
You are male and single, surely? And you like sci-fi. And you have long hair. Have you considered spending some time and money on the carpet instead as it looks like a sea of vomit? The 'thing' you are putting the VPC1 into is hideous. I just can't get my head around this project - It looks like wanton vandalism!

But it's very interesting to see it stripped down though so in a perverse way I'm glad you posted!


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160412
10/01/13 10:20 AM
10/01/13 10:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,834
doremi Offline
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If I had the skills of the OP, I would take off the bottom of a suitable synth-action controller and stack it as closely as possible on top of the nekkid VPC1 for a dual keyboard, piano action at the bottom and synth action at the top.

Oh man, what fun I would have with it!


I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: dire tonic] #2160474
10/01/13 01:15 PM
10/01/13 01:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
J
joflah Offline OP
Full Member
joflah  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
Originally Posted by dire tonic
WOW!!! - nice work joflah! It was only a couple of days ago I was fantasizing about doing away with the let-off.

Once it's clear to me that I can't find a way to benefit from it I'll refer back to your pics.

I wonder if you're tempted yourself? My guess is it would result in a slightly lighter action.

Cheers!!


I say your posts in the other thread, and I agree about both the let-off and the bass-treble weight grading being artifacts.
I did think about removing it entirely, but my playing skills are such that fine dynamic control is only a future concern. It'll be pretty easy to get at it now.
About resistance, I think it works non-linearly, that is, if you are over a certain velocity, the little rubber tab gets swept aside offering almost no resistance, but for very slow key pressing, it gets bunched up and offers more resistance. Actually, it seems as if it would make low velocity control harder.


Jack
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: dewster] #2160477
10/01/13 01:19 PM
10/01/13 01:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
J
joflah Offline OP
Full Member
joflah  Offline OP
Full Member
J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
Originally Posted by dewster
Killer! Added to the DPs Exposed! thread.

The letoff thingie seems rather similar to the one in Roland's PHAIII escapment one-way rubber flap. In both cases there seems to be a heavy reliance on grease for proper operation. And part of me just can't believe any serious DP maker uses rubber switches, but indeed all of them do it - they must be very inexpensive and I suppose they work OK, but I worry about polymers leaching over time (I've worked on TV remotes that got oily / gummy / unreliable).

I've worked on those too, and the same thought occured to me. I just hope it's a better quality switch than you get in remotes. It's sure going to get many times more operations.


Jack
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: mdp92] #2160479
10/01/13 01:21 PM
10/01/13 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
J
joflah Offline OP
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joflah  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 437
St. Louis, MO, USA
Originally Posted by mdp92
will you be installing those shoes as well? We really need heavy DPs to start walking on their own! smile


My playing is already pedestrian enough!


Jack
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: EssBrace] #2160500
10/01/13 01:58 PM
10/01/13 01:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,435
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by EssBrace
The 'thing' you are putting the VPC1 into is hideous. I just can't get my head around this project - It looks like wanton vandalism!

But it's very interesting to see it stripped down though so in a perverse way I'm glad you posted!


+1


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: VPC1 DPorn [Re: joflah] #2160513
10/01/13 02:42 PM
10/01/13 02:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,410
The Netherlands
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JFP Offline
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The Netherlands
The OP said that without Cabinet and Side panels the Keybed is about 20 pounds less weight , meaning a RM3_II keybed with electronics is about 20kg on it's own. A stage piano based on RM3 , or GF (even heavier) can therefore never be under 20 kg. I wonder if using very strong - but lightweight material - could bring it down to 25 kg with cabinet. Of course such casing won't come cheap, but a may be worth a calculation for the manufacturer; it'll bring up the price, but also make it more feasible as a truly portable DP , bringing in more sales. Could be worth the consideration...

(E.g. an MP11 @ 25 kg which is already heavy, but the extra 5kg kills it as a 'portable' device). Nice to know what a bare keybed weighs ; always wondered...

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