Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Parents who stop lessons for months

Thanks!
I try.

No, your teacher also gets to fire you if you lag behind in your practice, start banging on the piano rudely, keep on changing the lesson time, or take 5 months off piano lessons for no apparent reason.

It's a two-way street.

Well, in reality, he can complain to the department head, who will make a big fuss, because the school really wants MY MONEY and will bend over backwards to get it.

But I get along great with my teacher, and I will say it again: I am glad I don't have to deal with piano teachers who think the whole world revolves around them. I would drop such a teacher in an instant.

I found this thread disturbing, but that's probably the reason, I didn't realize we were talking about "greathest athletes" and "top professionals" of piano playing, I thought it was about normal kids taking piano lessons.

If you are training them to win the Chopin competition and start a carreer in piano playing then by no means three months of break are unacceptable.

If on the other hand you are teaching normal kids to play piano for their own enjoyment, you are right in warning the parents about what that might mean for their kids' progress so that they can make an informed decision, but they are still free to decide for the break withouth anybody calling them thick-headed.

Even more disturbing I find people comparing a slow piano progress to a spreading cancer or a dangerous building, but maybe that's just me.

Think about it for a second...

Are you sure that your school is teaching you to the best of their abilities? Because you're paying them... to learn, or to actually grab a degree? do you think they could be tricking you, to think you are doing great, but actually just making your life easier and lying to you?

just sayin'

Peekay, answering my question about where the objection is:



Thank you for answering.

By your insertion of the word "morons" I see how you are reading the post, namely as an attitude toward parents (being morons), and that is where your idea of attitude of superiority is coming from. Try a different reading:

It is September. Private teachers are getting student after student coming in who were away after summer - 5-8 in a row each day. Many of them have lost ground over the summer. The teacher has to help student after student stumble through things that they did with ease, having to reteach old things without demoralizing the student. In fact, a stumbling student risks losing confidence. He may in fact be seeing discouraged students who are bewildered at their lost ability. What you read was not an opinion on the intelligence of parents, but frustration at a preventable problem. It would not be levied at those who didn't have a choice that summer, but probably at metaphorical shrugged shoulders. Can you see it from that angle?

Meanwhile I want to address something that you wrote which is important to me - the student being the boss, and the teacher doing whatever the student wants. I wrote about it before, but I don't remember a response from you. This concerns me greatly and I've actually waged a campaign for time to time, insisting that older students be taught what we need to be able to progress, and not what will please us in order to get our money. Music teaching is also a money-earning job, and every commercial enterprise out there plays a number on us in order to get our money. We have a whole world that promises what we want to hear and then we are left with a belly full of cotton candy and little of substance.

For a teacher to do what I want, means that he will do what it takes to help me succeed in music, because that is actually what I want. If I "want" to get to play me favorite tunes in 6 months, only do what is fun, practise once a week, I do not want a teacher to accept these "wants" because I may not realize they will undermine my progress, but he will know that it will. You will probably say that you don't want those things either, but there are plenty in the industry who do promise exactly those things and are happy to take our dollars. I'd rather see teachers who are trying hard, and because they care, vent their frustration from time to time, than see people who don't care and are happy to rake in the dollars.

I can see how the adjective "thick headed" gave you an impression, but can you look at the rest of the picture?

You didn't read my post as intended. There was the idea that the OP was an expression of superiority. I was trying to bring across that the OP involved advice based on knowledge and experience. In other words, if you know what works and what tends to give problems. I was also not talking about slow progress. The idea is specifically that of wanting parents to understand that if 3 weeks are taken off, when the child resumes lessons he won't just be continuing from where he left off 3 weeks ago, he will also have slid back. If a parent hears this, perhaps he will make different decisions.

I don't remember using exaggerated imagery such as cancer or dangerous building. I avoided any hyperbole. I intended the idea of expertise in any field. That can also be your sister telling you not to put the element on maximum when heating butter, or watching for that uneven step she's fallen over twice. It's not about the creme de la creme. It's more about the kid who comes in after being away for two months, and wonders why it's such a struggle and why it isn't as much fun as it was before.

Teaching would be a lot more fun if it weren't for all those students! Hee, hee.

Students taking long breaks must indeed be frustrating. It's not easy to see good progress yanked away when it seems so easy to avoid it.

But ultimately you only have a couple of choices.

Forbid it, and drop any student who won't comply.

Accept it, and find a way to deal with the frustration.

Bad practice is really worse than no practice? I'm in trouble then. I do a lot of things wrong, but work ethic has never been a problem. Maybe I should try to be more lazy.

I think we have discussed this before, but perhaps it needs saying again.

Teaching is something very near and dear to our hearts. We believe in it 100%, at least those of us in this profession who take the time to come here and learn and offer advice for free. We truly want our students to love piano as much as we do. Some of them do, but they have obstacles to overcome that are above and beyond the typical trials we have with learning such a difficult skill as playing piano.

When obstacles are placed in our student's way, we get upset on their behalf. Sometimes parents can't let a student take lessons over the summer for good reasons. I had one such student, the mom wanted her to take, but it just couldn't work. It was frustrating, but no one's fault, we get back on that bench and move forward (or backward a little bit, then forward).

Other times, the parent is actually lazy, sick of driving the child to piano lessons and dance and tennis lessons, and so really, they need a break even though doing so can be a death sentence to a student's piano education. I have seen this happen all-too often where the student has trouble getting started practicing, finally gets into a "groove" and then summer comes, and it starts all over again. And in the meantime the parent talks to you about the child auditioning for a competitive music charter school which is very prestigious, and yet the child can hardly play simple pieces. No amount of talking to them gets them to understand they are making your job impossible, and worse, they are making piano not enjoyable for the child. They usually end up quitting.

So when teachers come on here and perhaps use some inflammatory remarks, they are venting their frustration in what is hopefully a safe environment to do so, since they wouldn't do that toward the student or the parent. It comes from a heart that cares. Perhaps that's not easy for some of you to see or understand.

Nowhere in Gary's post did he express anything but concern for the student's progress, not as a professional musician, but just as a pianist. He wants what's best for them. If you take the time to read the posts of regular teachers here, you would see that is usually the motivation.

Now to address the OP. I think with educating the parents. Sometimes talking to them works, but often that isn't enough. Having a "reward" for students/parents who continue through the summer can help. If students take a minimum of 6 lessons with me over the summer, they get priority scheduling in the fall semester. Otherwise, their time could be given away to someone else. This sends a message that it really is important they stick with it. Still, some don't get it even if they are capable of continuing.

Another way is to inform them with articles. Perhaps write up a small article yourself with supporting documentation from other professionals and music organizations that you can hand out in the beginning of May. Actually, I used to do a quarterly newsletter and discussed things like practicing, the difference between a keyboard, a digital piano, and acoustic pianos and the pros and cons of each, things like that. The parents actually appreciated this and I'd like to start doing that again. Sometimes reaching them through written means like that is more effective.

In the end, however, there will always be those that can't or won't take summer lessons. Keep in mind, as a child, I never took summer lessons, I learned piano on a terrible, out-of-tune, some notes not working, malfunctioning damper pedal spinet. My practice was terrible, my progress was terrible, but my love for piano won out in the end. There is only so much you can do, so make the best of your time with the student and try to make them enjoy what they have. Perhaps someday they'll ask to continue over the summer.

It is quite possible that parents know this, but they have other reasons to take the summer off. After all, American education system operates this way. School comes to a complete halt in summer, and students come back in the fall knowing less than when they left for summer. The first month (if not more) of school is routinely used to bring students back to where they were. But this is true only for those kids from families who can't provide academic enrichment in the summer. Many parents who have the means and are well-educated themselves seek ways to strengthen their children's education in the summer, through academic camps, homework that parents assign to the kids, etc. These children come back to school in the fall, more advanced than when they left for summer.

So I would imagine that well-educated parents know the harm of stopping piano for 3 months.

Those who don't realize this are probably those who also don't realize that stopping academic studies for 3 months is very harmful to the children. You can give these parents information, but if this is a mindset----that summer is for fun and not for learning----it would be hard for them to change. And really, it's not their fault, they have been, in a sense, brainwashed by the very educational system in which their kids are being educated.

But either way, the choice of the word "thickheaded" indeed shows more than just facts.

I find it interesting that those who criticize Gary's choice of words are not teachers themselves.

Perhaps because parents are more sensitive about whether teachers respect parents?

But I AM a teacher, I'm not a piano teacher.

I'm in favor of year round school.

The US's summer off schedule is based on an agricultural economy that no longer exists, and on a very limited school curriculum (in 1900 only 50% of the population were schooled, with school defined as 1st to 5th grade).

If we had year round school the resistance to summer piano lessons would be much less.

Not very likely. I'm studying at the Royal Conservatory, home of the RCM exams used in many countries. Students are "required" to go through an assessment each term.

If the teacher isn't getting me ready at least to Grade standards, it would be painfully obvious from the next exam scores. Teachers (especially RCM staff instructors) don't like their students to get low scores because their name is on the record and it reflects poorly on them as well.

I just went up a grade and my teacher wants me to take the next exam in January. However, I might be out of the country all of December and part of January -- so I told him maybe the April exam is more realistic. He still thinks I will be prepared for January but is willing to work with me.

Had he instead complained about me taking leave, torpedoing my own progress, being hard-headed, etc., I'd probably drop him. There are many other RCM instructors and RCM is happy to get my $$$ each term.

But thankfully I have a great teacher.

I found that fascinating too! Not a single piano teacher sees any problem with the choice of word. Doesn't it tell something?

I am not trying to criticize, just trying to understand.

Perhaps it is the mixed roles of teaching and customer service (and billing and accounting..)? I have recently talked to a customer service manager, her choice of words toward customers were... let's not go there.

Maybe separation of the roles will make a teacher happier? Outsource the billing, scheduling to someone else and focus on teaching? You know, the going rate for teaching is between $40-$80/hour, the rate of an office clerk is $12-$20/hour.

So gather 3 to 5 of your fellow teachers and hire someone to take care of the none-teaching tasks? I am just thinking out loud here.

You have to separate two things. One is the fact of a teacher-to-teacher discussion where teachers are able to express their feelings to peers, while on the job they must present a professional manner at all times regardless of what happens. Private teachers work in absolute isolation. This is important. The second thing involves the actual issues. On the student side I'd acknowledge that frustrations are encountered and that there is the occasional need to vent in a safe place (albeit open to students and parents to read and thus be offended). The more important thing is what teachers is trying to do to help his students, and what kinds of obstacles they are facing which is causing such frustration. On a PRACTICAL side that will serve the parent or student.

Consider the situation of the private teacher - I mean a good one who actually has the expertise from years of study. This teacher will be an expert in piano playing, in music, in theory, as well as knowing how teaching and learning work. His clientele have none of that knowledge. Customers in other fields don't either, but if a builder designs and builds a house, his customer simply has to pay the money and move in when it's finished. Here the expert has to work with the client. He is teaching the child, and at any moment the parent is undermining the child's progress because the parent doesn't know better. This will be frustrating. It's not just that teachers care about the quality of their work, but they also care about the experience of the child. There will be frustration. Anyone working in isolation needs to be able to talk to others doing the same work. While dealing with students and parents, that frustration cannot show.

When I joined PW it was after several years of lessons on another instrument which followed the lessons of my teen child (who had gone on to a music major at that point). I felt that there was not much teacher-student/parent communication, what a teacher needed in cooperation was not very clear, and there was a passle of things that were question marks for me. How good is communication between teachers and parents/students in reality beyond assignments? One side of this issue, in the least, is for parents to understand the ramifications of their choices. How well are these brought across? In fact, are they?

What is obvious to a person in the field is not obvious to an outsider. That is true for any field. Here is a specific issue. What do we do with it? On both sides.

Keystring, you didn't understand my post, still thinking I was criticizing.

My observation is, that most of the frustration of the piano teacher were not directly related to teaching, but rooted from relationships with parents, payment, scheduling etc.

Most of clinics were owned by doctors, most/all doctors working there are associates.

I am think why not a teacher owned music schools? Let teachers do the teaching, and hire a school manager to deal with the rest?

[quote=Morodiene][quote=Gary D.]I am going to be very up front in the future about how parents who take long times off for their kids ruin progress.

I am going to present this idea:

When you stop lessons for 3 months, it takes half that time to get back to where you were before you stopped. Off all summer means that maybe by the middle of October you are back where you were in May. Meanwhile the students who continued are 3 months ahead.



Many years ago, when my wife and I were just babes in the woods and after a summer where most of our students didn't take, we barely survived financially. We knew we needed to make a change. And we did exactly what Morodiene suggests. Only we added a twist, those who took more lessons got first choice in the fall for lessons times. My wife has even had people pay for missed lessons just to insure their choice of lesson times in the fall. You don't have to verbally tell them anything, just arrange the incentives for the desired outcomes. Obviously not everybody complies, but sometimes there is just no room for them in the fall and that takes care of the problem.

Erm...my income is not enough to hire a school manager...so, I have to do everything myself...

Is that make sense?