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I am going to be very up front in the future about how parents who take long times off for their kids ruin progress.

I am going to present this idea:

When you stop lessons for 3 months, it takes half that time to get back to where you were before you stopped. Off all summer means that maybe by the middle of October you are back where you were in May. Meanwhile the students who continued are 3 months ahead.

This puts the "stoppers" not three months behind, but 4.5 months behind.

We all know this is approximately true, so the question is:

How do we get this through to thick-headed parents, who torpedo their kids' progress yearly?

You can explain these things to the parents.

BUT, at the end of the day, it's the parents' right to make the best choices for their children. Believe it or not, for many families, piano lessons are not the end-all be-all.

I know someone who sent his kids overseas every summer, to be with their grandparents. "While they're still alive". Who are we to judge?

Who are we to judge? Who is talking about judging? I'm talking about FACTS.

I am an adult piano student in a country where almost nobody takes lessons over the two-month-long summer, because the subsidised (music) schools all close. Only those who are willing and able to either pay a private teacher (and there aren't very many of those -- at least not good ones), or fill their summer to the brim with musical summer camps and similar activities, will continue their lessons throughout July and August.

I suppose many students do regress during the gap, and a disturbing number of them take lessons for one school year, and then never bother to show up again after the break.

But I have seen a few different people be very effective in preventing dramatic regression with a variety of students. It's true that most of them (and in that 'them', I will include myself) don't make any significant progress while without a teacher. But I also think, based on a few memorable examples I've seen, that it's possible to structure assignments in such a way as to make sure that even if no gains are made, no big losses will occur, either.

Two things that, in my observation, seem to help:

1) Help the student discover *why* they are playing the piano, if it's not to try to please the teacher (and/or avoid their anger, disappointment, or ... fill in the blank), or because their parents seem to think it's a good idea.

2) Assign materials that are at or slightly below the student's current level -- more than you actually expect them to cover, but not so much as to overwhelm them.

One and two will work in tandem to make sure that the student at least keeps hovering somewhere in the neighbourhood of where they were when lessons stopped.

Of course, this only works with students who *have* some kind of intrinsic motivation to play. But for those who don't, I figure regression is less of a waste of potential. At some point, they'll quit anyway, and it's likely that they'll never touch a piano again once they have.

And just to make it clear that I do realise I didn't *really* address the topic of this thread in the above, also this: I think telling parents and their children in a direct way what the (potential) consequences of a summer hiatus are is indeed the best way to deal with this issue. But the specific consequence you cite (about how they'll be 'behind' 4.5 months by the time they're back on track) probably appeals mainly to those who care about where they are in the pecking order.

I suspect there are many parents and kids who are indeed somewhat (or very) sensitive to this. But some of them aren't. And why should they be?

Maybe it's better to drop the concept of being 'behind' or 'ahead' from the argument altogether, and just say that being away from lessons over the summer (and playing very little or not at all during that time) will force you to essentially cover some of the same material twice? Or is that what you were saying all along, and have I just misinterpreted your meaning?

I think that it is important for parents and older students to be aware of this regression, so that if they choose not to take lessons over an extended period, it is an informed choice. Maybe they can stave off the regression by continuing to practice. Of course if they start going in the wrong direction, there is nobody to correct them to bring them back on track.

FACT: It's not your decision, but the parents'.

You have no idea what other factors the parents are considering during the summer. If you don't like it, drop the students.

If your teachers cannot or will not teach for any period, there is nothing you can do about it. This still does not mean it is good for you or any student.

Whether or not you think you make any progress at all while not studying with a teacher would have to do with weighing bad habits picked up against whatever strides you make, alone. I would say this changes greatly when you have studied a long time.

In the first couple years it is simply deadly to stop. So I am really, for the most part, not talking about advanced students. But even they get some wonky bad habits when no is around to check what they are doing.

Not in the early stages.

Your points seem to be about people who are far more advanced than the people I am talking about.

And I have NO plans on dropping the idea of "being behind", because that is the elephant in the room.

If you taught, you would agree.

Probably. Also, it's likely that the people I'm talking about are more conscious of what they're doing while at the piano (even when the teacher isn't there) than the average beginning piano student.



Maybe. In any case, point taken: I'll shut up and let the teachers do the talking, now .

I'm very glad I don't usually deal with these type parents. For the few that I do have, I just let their kids flounder. It's not my fault!

Some parents treat piano like just another extracurricular activity. The entire concept of "practice" escapes them, let alone the 3 months of lesson stoppage every summer.

If a nutritionist advises a family that certain foods will be a health risk, then the family can still decide not to follow that advice and bear the consequences. If a house inspector tells a family that a section of the house will fall apart in the next decade if they don't take certain measures, they can choose to ignore it. If a coach advises that certain actions can lead to injury, he can also be ignored.

I am reading a teacher advising what will give progress, and what will impede progress. Your response does not make sense. If a doctor advised a pre-diabetic that a sugary diet puts him at risk, is the response "If you don't like it, you can drop the patient." logical?

Whether student or parent, I would want to have this kind of information.

How long have you been playing? How do you judge whether or not these people truly know what they are doing while at the piano?

In my experience every student still in the first or second year develops some bad habits in two, three or four months away from a good teacher. Sometimes those things be fixed quickly, but sometimes not.

Practicing wrong is far worse than not practicing at all.

Think about the greatest athletes. The best in the world. They travel with trainers, coaches, ready to correct anything that goes wrong. You don't see them "on their own" for a couple months.

And these are top professionals.

I repeat: how long have you been playing? On what basis do you assume that when you are working alone you do not fall into bad habits without even knowing such habits are possible?

And yes, frankly I think students should listen a bit more when people have been teaching for decades are talking about major problems.

That does not mean they have to.

Sometimes true, sometimes not.

But it is equally true that they do not think through the long range effects of how much money they are wasting, paying for lessons that do no more than to finally get kids back to where they were when the stopped last.

Do you really think it is always that simple?

What is your grudge with me? Are you a student who stops lessons in the summer? Are you a parent who stops lessons in the summer for your kids?

Are you defending friends who take lessons?

And are you a teacher?

Letting the parents to understand the consequence of taking the summer off is great.

In a piano teacher's eyes, student's progress on piano is the #1 concern. This is OK, I like that from a piano teacher.

Just that life is bigger than just music.
Assuming all the parents putting anything before piano are "thick-headed" might spark some unnecessary exchanges that helps no body.

Great!!



Great!!



No need to. Just present the facts and let the parents choose their choices. You already warn the "patient" that if she is not cutting off her ovaries, then the cancer will spread to other parts of the body. Your job is done, sit back and relax!!

I am glad I don't have to deal with piano teachers who think the whole world revolves around them.

As an adult student, I can fire my teacher at any time. He works for me, on my schedule, at my prerogative. Not the other way around.

My niece is starting her music lessons soon. There will be times when she will need to take extended leave. The reason why is irrelevant; it's a family concern and it's up to her mom & dad to decide her activities & priorities. If her teacher can't deal with that, there are plenty of others who can.

Gary, D., I have read your post, here:

Subject: Parents who stop lessons for months

I am going to be very up front in the future about how parents who take long times off for their kids ruin progress.

I am going to present this idea:

When you stop lessons for 3 months, it takes half that time to get back to where you were before you stopped. Off all summer means that maybe by the middle of October you are back where you were in May. Meanwhile the students who continued are 3 months ahead.

This puts the "stoppers" not three months behind, but 4.5 months behind.

We all know this is approximately true, so the question is:

How do we get this through to thick-headed parents, who torpedo their kids' progress yearly?

__________________________________________________________________________

Parents, kids, politicians, teacher, - everybody - etc. do what they want because they are in a position of both money and/or power - so they have the final say because they can and do that in the way that they want!

You see, I have had to have breaks because of surgeries and recoveries of several months - no choice - but - yes, it would cause me to have to review all my pieces playing them slowly and without mistakes and making the pieces sound musical again which would take seveal months to do. But for many on the planet, that is enough for them to quit - but for someone like me who loves playing the piano - nothing would ever prevent me from playing the piano because the love of learning to play the piano is so strong that nothing other than my death would cause an end - but not everybody feels that way and parents can gamble!

When you are in a situation, where you have to make a decision, I say you should go for favourable terms - the things that you want - at any cost - but the other side - in this case it is the parents are hoping the child will quit and they parents will win. But if the kid is determined to learn to play the piano and the kid loves learning to play the piano - nothing would ever stop him from playing the piano because his will is so strong but others would fold and quit.

I hope you see what I mean!

I just remembered something. When I was a teenager, my parents suggested that maybe it would be a good idea if I went to boarding school. I said that was a great idea and I would enjoy that. I knew my parents didn't want to spend that kind of money on me - and I was right - they never ever mentioned that again. So life is a gamble in certain situations and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.

cheers,

3S25MOT

Peekay, the first step in responding to a post involves understanding what has been said. Otherwise you get a conversation that looks like this:
Doctor: You have a bacterial infection. Here is an antibiotic to help clear it up.
Person: Wow, you seem to think you're important. Look everyone, what a bigshot!

Everyone else: (wonders what this person is on about)

Here we have a teacher observing that when students miss several weeks of lessons, they have slipped when they return and need to be retaught what they used to be able to do.

How does such an observation have anything to do with self-concept?


Yes, I've been an adult student too, and among other things, still am. The first thing that I want from any teacher is that he will do whatever he can to help me succeed. When I first looked around some 10 years ago, I was horrified by how many teacher back then said about adult students, "Let them do whatever they want. They have no future and won't get anywhere." One can be the "boss" of such a teacher, but that would not be my cup of tea. I want to learn.

I don't get your objection. What is it about the observation that missed lessons can cause students to regress, that you find so dreadful? I'd be more inclined to say "What can we do to minimize the problem, if a longer absence can't be avoided?" rather than labeling the messenger.

The first post assumes parents are just a bunch of "thick-headed" morons who are intent to "torpedo" their own kids progress. Quotes from the original post.

That's my objection.

If the long term goal is to produce the best pianist possible then taking the summer off is plainly a detriment.

If the long term goal is to promote the development of a decent human being then there may be priorities in other domains (e.g. develop family connections) that trump continuation of piano lessons.

We all gotta make choices.

Well said, malkin.