Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum winding going above the nut

I've installed my £300 pounds worth of iron wound strings (26 of them). 4 broke. The winding, as Robert Wornum planned it, goes over the nut pin and just stops before the tuning pin. My maker did a fantastic job - everything just the right length. Should I have greased the nut pin? I can't help thinking the .8mm iron core was worked too hard pulling the wound section over the nut pin. Any ideas? Thanks.

"Nut pin" = agraffe?

I suppose. It is just a pin though. The piano's a 170 year old upright.

I think a photo of what you're talking about would be helpful. What I'm imagining is the winding going over the bearing bar and terminating between the bar and the tuning pin. Is that correct?

Take a look at some of the photographs placed on this "Pinao World" and you will see where the winding on whraped striings is supposed to end.
Also take a look on a site whoich sells piano parts and you could make a sketch or download the page so that you can learn the names of the various parts.

Here's some I put on months ago - exactly how the maker wanted it:

Okay, I see what you're talking about.

I've never seen an instance where windings extended this far.

Do not use any kind of petroleum-based or otherwise wet lubricant on it. It will ruin the piano.

Just goes to show the makers were not always right.

By that photo, it is very odd. There are some plain wire core, then some old strings that look like they were done wrong, then some new strings that look like they were done wrong.

I'd hate to have to try to tune it.

I've never seen windings above the agraffes. How old is the piano? Are the old strings in the photo originals?

And how! I'm glad that piano is across the "Pond" and I won't be called to tune it.

I can't imagine it was planned that way. The windings should stop before the pins. Only the core wire should contact the pin, and then go around the tuning pin. There are two ways to make this piano tuneable -

1. Replace the strings with ones of proper size (send the maker a paper template showing bearing points and hitch pin locations)

2. Remove each string from the tuning pin and unwind enough outer coil so it ends 1/2" below the pin. Then re-install the string.

Are these the original pins? Are they tight?

You will continue to break strings or the outer coil will separate at the pin and buzz unless this piano is strung correctly.

1852 Broadwood windings

Wow. That seems crazy to me. How do those strings even move?

Poorly!

This is something that is missing from all of those early temperament discussions. The instruments in those days did not tune as well as modern ones.

Oh yeah!

Sounds like an expensive proposition to purchase another full set of strings. Wouldn't it be worth a try to take them off and wind off some of the winding to the appropriate length? He might break a few more in the process, but once the surviving strings are all on, he can special order the ones that are missing. Worth a go?

I believe the friction was lower intially with the wood rubbed with graphite and not marred (and the pin as well.

burnishing and graphiting (hard pencil) may help a little, , may be inserting a small strip of "parchemin" (French) at the moment the string is pulled, to protect it, then pull it out, if well positionned may be it will pull out easily enough, if not, lower a little the tension.

the becket are not cut after installation, but the lenght evaluated and the becket installed flush in the pin. Others may have told you that yet.

Thanks for the comments folks. I'll certainly do the graphite and maybe the parchment. The problem may be Malcolm Rose B is not up to the job. In this 1834 review he does mention new Improved Steel:

interesting document, thanks for posting it .

I cannot really help there but yes piano makers begin to use steel -that year (1837-38, I heard)

you need to measure the speaking lengths to check if a steel can be used. together with the tension of the basses, that may be very low.