2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
50 members (accordeur, 36251, Bostonmoores, 20/20 Vision, Cheeeeee, Adam Reynolds, Burkhard, 1200s, clothearednincompo, akse0435, 6 invisible), 1,307 guests, and 306 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 502
G
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
G
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 502
Do yourself a favour: go to the Fincock piano museum in Kent where you can see many old, and some very old, pianos. I feel certain there will not be one where the winding of a string goes over the capo bar.
Whilst there ask the way to the nearby "farm" where a Mr Richard Dain, a retired mechanical engineer, puts together pianos which have sound boards made of carbon fiber.
Also go to U-tube and look for an item named " A Pianos Pin by Ronan O'Hora". He is playing Mozart's Sonata K570 II Adagio. The videos shows pins throughout the ages AND at the end your type of pins (old) in situ with the CORRECT arrangement !!!!
I do hope you get it right as I'd like to hear how the instrument sounds.

Last edited by Goof; 09/23/13 06:39 AM.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
C
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
I know one of the major restorers in this country - he's said it's unusual not to have the winding going round the pin but that is what Mr Wornum wanted.

The sounding length of the bottom iron wound G# (g#2 according to this website http://www.claviersbaroques.com/CBExpertHelmholtzNotation.htm ) is 70cm. The top iron wound one, g# (g#3), is 61.5cm. They are very high for wound strings - all cores are .8mm. That's why I initial thought to plain string at least the top group (I notice on Pleyel's Pianino he plain strings down to B (b2).


Laissez tomber les mains
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
It may or may not be what Wornum wanted, but it seems to be what he got. Even now, piano makers make mistakes.


Semipro Tech
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
C
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
Well how about this - every string from bottom to top (F1 (FF) to F7 (f'''')) has the same length - 92.5 cms.


Laissez tomber les mains
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
I remember an Érard grand with covered wire over the bridge (oversize bridge pins) and through the oversize agraffe with oversize holes I didn't check the interior configuration of the agraffe holes. Probably quite a broad curve.
I didn't know it's age and the covered strings were all black with oxidisation so I didn't know what metal they were covered with.
I only saw it briefly.

It was being tuned regularly and slightly above 440. . The tuner expressed no problems with it, this was in the days when we were tuning all kinds of weird and wonderful old pianos that had been tuned on contract for many generations.
This was in the 1960's and it was all original then with no broken strings. It was just the core wire on the tuning pins. Must have been well over 100 years old then.

I have access to an old Broadwood square, 1804, I think. I know the bass strings are spiral wound with a 1/4" or so step to the spiral. I am sure the strings are wound as they go over the bridges but I will check.

I remember something about continuing the winding past the termination points reduced inharmonicity, perhaps our experts could address this matter.

Last edited by rxd; 09/23/13 05:57 AM.

Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
O
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
I have seen that winding "often" on instruments of a certain era - all wooden frames
Also on some square pianos (European ones)

I am not sure the winding go on the bridge too, more probably no.

Last edited by Olek; 09/23/13 07:09 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
C
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
I hadn't thought it unusual that the winding goes over the bridge:

[Linked Image]

but quite right, on my Pleyel it doesn't.


Laissez tomber les mains
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
This picture from another thread that has covered strings going over the bridge. It's quite common in ancient pianos. I'm still wondering how successful continuous winding like this is in reducing inharmonicity. Any experts on covered string inharmonicity?

[Linked Image]

Last edited by rxd; 09/23/13 01:36 PM.

Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,925
D
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,925
Are the strings original?


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
C
3000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
3000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,077
Originally Posted by Dave B
Are the strings original?
On mine they are. I'm having to replace from G#2 to G#3 as they are iron wound and sound tubby from rust.


Laissez tomber les mains
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
R
rXd Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,571
Originally Posted by Dave B
Are the strings original?

Dave, It's my educated guess most of them are, other than those that obviously aren't. looking at the oversize bridge pins, it looks as though a plain core wire would go between them with barely any offset as you can see by the "replacement" wire.
The instrument looks to have been built to accept this idea. The bridge pins look as though they are smaller further up the bridge.

The Érard I saw with the covering on the strings in exactly this fashion had the usual 4-5 metal struts in the form of a rudimentary plate so, while I didn't check the date, it couldn't have been very early. It, too had oversize bridge pins and the covering on the wire as it went through the oversize agraffe. It seems to me that more than one manufacturer did this, either experimentally or In their early manufacturing years so it wasn't a local aberration.

I have a feeling I may have seen this piano before, it's not every day we see a knot just like that one in the middle of the speaking length of a covered string and in approximately the same location. The one I saw was a Viennese style piano.

Last edited by rxd; 09/24/13 09:50 AM.

Amanda Reckonwith
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.


Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
How Much to Sell For?
by TexasMom1 - 04/15/24 10:23 PM
Song lyrics have become simpler and more repetitive
by FrankCox - 04/15/24 07:42 PM
New bass strings sound tubby
by Emery Wang - 04/15/24 06:54 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,385
Posts3,349,189
Members111,631
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.