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#2150223 - 09/14/13 06:38 PM Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording  
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Hi everybody,

I've been working on this sonata for the past two months, and will be performing it in 3 weeks. I was practising on my digital piano (to not be disruptive), and I sort of decided to push the record button when I was playing through the first movement in the moment. A few notes about this recording though:

- it's being played on a digital
- I recorded it on a digital
- I recorded my digital piano playing back my recording with a different device. (Technology! It's not as simple as just outputting it straight into my computer!)

So long story short, here is my recording (of my recording) of this movement, which is a work in progress still. There's background noise with people walking around the house, but I think it's tolerable since it's not a performance...

If anybody is curious as to why I skipped the repeat, it's because I started recording after I played the exposition the first time through.

Here it is:
https://app.box.com/s/7id0nqde8ydo361otxqm


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2150267 - 09/14/13 08:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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We have *got* to get you into a recording studio someday, with a well tuned acoustic piano and good mics! The way you play is definitely worth it! grin

Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
[...]
- I recorded my digital piano playing back my recording with a different device. (Technology! It's not as simple as just outputting it straight into my computer!)
[...]


I think this works to the listener's advantage. There is something about sending the digital piano's sound out over the air that makes it sound, well, less digital! wink

You definitely got it goin', Allan! Very sensitively played, with wonderful musical and emotional intelligence on display. Thank you so much for sharing this! Break a leg!!! laugh

--Andy

Last edited by Cinnamonbear; 09/14/13 08:50 PM.

I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
#2150270 - 09/14/13 09:02 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Thank you for your kind comments Andy! And many apologies for that epic door slam partway through the piece...haha. I really need to find a good way to record things!

So far the 3rd and 4th movements are almost done too, and the 2nd is...hard. I'll record the rest before my actual performance, which I think is good so I'll have an idea of what I sound like, away from the bench. I hope to do a really good job with this piece, because it's very special to me. And I really want make a musical statement with the tempo - a true Allegro Maestoso!



Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2150297 - 09/14/13 10:35 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Only able to do a quick 'skim' so far, but it seems quite quite good! thumb

(Maybe even better than that!)

I mean, some of it is just too slowed-down, and I'll be having some other 'suggestions,' but so what.... grin

#2150419 - 09/15/13 06:26 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Pretty good, but needs more gusto, grandiose, and gonzo! grin You sound bored while playing it.

#2150530 - 09/15/13 11:58 AM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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@Joel - Ahaha, all of that is present in the finale, don't worry laugh

And Mark - if you do have time, I'd love to hear some suggestions! I know that this piece is very special to you and you've studied it for quite some time...so I'm sure you have many interpretative ideas about how it might go.

Thanks for listening!


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2150538 - 09/15/13 12:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Ahaha, all of that is present in the finale, don't worry laugh


Can't wait to hear it!

#2150559 - 09/15/13 01:45 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
So far the 3rd and 4th movements are almost done too, and the 2nd is...hard.

Apparently Mark agrees with you. He thinks it's the hardest movement. (And it is, in a way.) laugh

I'm not going to try to offer suggestions until you've learned the piece, Kuan. I don't really approve of posting mediocre, 3/4 speed performances here, as you might have guessed. grin I'm sure you will play it a lot better, both technically and interpretatively, when you have really mastered the piece. (Or is it really possible to master Opus 58? But that's another question. grin)


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2150593 - 09/15/13 02:30 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I'm not going to try to offer suggestions until you've learned the piece, Kuan. I don't really approve of posting mediocre, 3/4 speed performances here, as you might have guessed. grin I'm sure you will play it a lot better, both technically and interpretatively, when you have really mastered the piece. (Or is it really possible to master Opus 58? But that's another question. grin)

I agree but wasn't sure I was going to make an issue of it. Let's say I was trying to think of how to do it without seeming like I was giving him a hard time. grin

And in this case it's not even just that it's "3/4 speed"; it's that some parts are learned much less than others, and slow down more.

I'm at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum from Kuan when it comes to displaying my playing. I don't necessarily want to show it yet even when the piece is fully learned from beginning to end, because even then it's not good enough yet. I wouldn't even bring it to a teacher yet, in this stage of learning, much less post it. Of course a problem with my way is that sometimes the piece is never "good enough yet" -- in fact it's almost always not good enough yet. ha

Probably a better answer is somewhere in between. Anyway, on a recording where someone clearly hasn't even finished working out the whole piece, I'm not that moved to start listening or judging or suggesting anything, because I don't know what he himself will still figure out himself. The reason I came on here anyway (and will be saying still more) is because it's Kuan and because of the interchanges that we've had recently about what's hard and what isn't, and because this is a special piece for me. So, even though I totally share Poly's view, I'll be back. smile

#2150595 - 09/15/13 02:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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I'm "the Poly" now? ha


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2150598 - 09/15/13 02:38 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I'm "the Poly" now? ha

Fixed.

That was from an error in rephrasing the sentence. smile

#2150607 - 09/15/13 02:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
I'm "the Poly" now? ha

Fixed.

That was from an error in rephrasing the sentence. smile

What did it say before? "that idiot?" ha

(just kidding of course. I know no one is enough of an idiot to think I'm one. grin)


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2150608 - 09/15/13 02:50 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Haha, well it's true that I'm not finished...but one thing that I'm sure of is the tempo. I know that the reason why my recording is long mostly derives from how I handle the B material. I'm not interested in taking it faster though, so this isn't 3/4 speed. This is my preferred tempo. But it's not like I'm alone, both Gilels and Sokolov take it 30 seconds and 1 minute slower respectively.

However, I will post a performance recording in time, so I guess I'll just have to keep practicing for now.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2150610 - 09/15/13 02:54 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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You mean you think everything besides the "B" theme is at the tempo that you think you'll want?



Pssssssst: It isn't. grin
Especially in the latter part of the movement, you slow down in ways that are clearly just from not knowing those parts well.

Last edited by Mark_C; 09/15/13 02:56 PM.
#2150611 - 09/15/13 02:55 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
You mean you think everything besides the "B" theme is at the tempo that you think you'll want?



Pssssssst: It isn't. grin

If you actually intend to play it that slow, Kuan, I for one will not be coming to your concert. And neither will Mark, it appears. grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2150612 - 09/15/13 02:57 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.

#2150652 - 09/15/13 04:13 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't), so trying to push him to go faster isn't going to work. You shouldn't. Maybe with time, it will move more - but it doesn't have to. It needs time to be decided by HIM. And yes, this is allegro maestoso. Perhaps you are all used to hearing it too fast, which most people seem to gravitate toward.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#2150684 - 09/15/13 05:12 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Pogo: Did you read the previous posts?

(If you did, you forgot about them.) grin

If it were just a matter of what you're talking about, then sure. But it's not. In fact, what I've been saying about this isn't even mainly about basic tempo. It's about the tempo changes, and inconsistencies, and particularly where he slows down extra and what it shows. Very often it's clearly (very clearly) not a musical choice but a concession to not having learned the part well enough yet.

No problem with what you're saying; in fact I agree with it 100%. It's just that you're not really commenting on what you thought you were.

#2150687 - 09/15/13 05:18 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


Huh. This kind of statement makes me sick. sick Sorry, Mark. It just does.

I went back and listened again (again). One thing I've come to appreciate about Allan's playing (as I've been listening to his posted recordings for the last three years or so) is his musical judgement. It seems obvious to me from Allan's comments that he has something special in mind about the shaping and momentum of the entire piece. Yes, this is billed as a practice recording, and obviously the piece is still green, and even if I did not know what kind of pianist Allan is already, there are myriad indications in this clip alone that this piece will polish up nicely. There are long stretches of depth and beauty in it, and the tempo is JUST FINE.

My advice to you, Allan, is to disregard the McDonald's quality control team. Show us what you have in mind.

--Andy


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
#2150688 - 09/15/13 05:20 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]  
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Wrong, Andy. grin

I think you just maybe need a supply of Pepto Bismol. ha

You're being way too quick to dismiss what has been said. There's more to it than you're appreciating.

It could be OK (if we wanted to be exceedingly liberal about the tempo, which most people wouldn't) if, when Kuan says that the speed is basically what he wants, he isn't including the great inconsistencies and the parts where he slows down so extremely. It looked to me like he meant the whole thing.

#2150693 - 09/15/13 05:33 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Wrong, Andy. grin


Wait and see, Mark. Wait and see. I believe you are being too quick to judge. wink


I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.
#2150711 - 09/15/13 05:54 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Kuan: I better say some more well-deserved stuff on the positive side before we get too much further down this road. Just wanted to say (as I implied up there, but it's probably sort of lost by now) that there's very much you're doing that I think is terrific. More later. smile

#2150714 - 09/15/13 05:58 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Mark_C]  
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Wrong, Andy. grin

I think you just maybe need a supply of Pepto Bismol. ha

You're being way too quick to dismiss what has been said. There's more to it than you're appreciating.

It could be OK (if we wanted to be exceedingly liberal about the tempo, which most people wouldn't) if, when Kuan says that the speed is basically what he wants, he isn't including the great inconsistencies and the parts where he slows down so extremely. It looked to me like he meant the whole thing.


Can you give me an example?



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#2150715 - 09/15/13 06:00 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Kuan, for what little it's worth, I appreciate the tempo as it is; at its worst this performance strikes me as though part of some black and white romance film, at its best there's something....real in there...really, I really appreciate this. Thank you. I mean, um, I hear enough performances (by "real" pianists, by "virtuosos" and even "super-virtuosos") that just fail to have a point; if you sped up to "full" speed, I don't see how *your* particular interpretation would work. And it does...to me at least laugh Um...I see some others here disagree...I'd beg them to listen again because, really, it may not be a super polished, impressive display, it just *is* and what it *is* is beautiful....it's real. Um....what the heck that really means is anybody's guess smile but I mean it nonetheless. I second Cinnybear; your playing pleads for some decent recording equipment ^_^ I wish you good luck with whatever performance comes in three weeks though, if you play the other movements with as much conviction as this one, you shan't need it.
Xxx


Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
#2150724 - 09/15/13 06:19 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Ah thank you Andy, Pogorelich. and FSO for your comments and kind thoughts! There is still a lot of thinking that I need to put into this movement, though the overall concept is starting to come through.

I still like my tempo!

Though moving away from that, any ideas, thoughts, comments, suggestions on other aspects? (such as tone, phrasing, legato, dynamics, treatment of counterpoint, etc?). I think those are much more interesting aspects to this piece, which result in varying tempo choices...

Last edited by Kuanpiano; 09/15/13 06:20 PM.

Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2150740 - 09/15/13 06:38 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Pogorelich.]  
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Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.

As Mark says, it's about the ridiculous inconsistencies and hesitations as much as about the overall tempo.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2150744 - 09/15/13 06:45 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
I think tempo is a very personal thing (unless it's borderlining on insanity, which this isn't)

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. grin Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane


That does not refute my point, and we're not discussing Pogorelich here.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#2150745 - 09/15/13 06:47 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Kuanpiano]  
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Also, I'm not "quick" to say that - it took me a few years of studying AND teaching to realize it.



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
#2150746 - 09/15/13 06:49 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Your namesake, by the way, is not borderlining on insanity - he IS insane.


Who are you to judge Ivo Pogorelich?

#2150747 - 09/15/13 06:51 PM Re: Chopin - Piano Sonata op. 58 mov.1 - Practice recording [Re: Cinnamonbear]  
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Originally Posted by Cinnamonbear
Originally Posted by Mark_C
Neither would Kuan. grin

Trust me Kuan -- this is an instance of us knowing better than you do about what you will or won't want. smile
You are misjudging it.


Huh. This kind of statement makes me sick. sick Sorry, Mark. It just does.

Agree completely. The statement is very arrogant. If one must say something like this then do it in a PM. If you don't do PM's then don't say it.

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