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Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? #2142486
09/01/13 07:37 PM
09/01/13 07:37 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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I bounced around an idea a while back on Piano World that is starting to take some more shape. It's a website to facilitate analyzing music scores. I want to get some feedback on the idea before moving to design the site. I created a questionnaire that presents the idea and gathers feedback: http://musical.neuralfirings.com/scoresprojectresearch/

This link goes more in depth about the product I envision and what some major features are. If you have a minute and can take a look, I'd appreciate the feedback! The first page is to get a general sense of how people use sheet music, the second page describes the site and some mockups, then that last page is for feedback on the site.

Let me know if anything in the survey is unclear. Thanks!

Last edited by neuralfirings; 09/01/13 07:38 PM.

Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
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Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142531
09/01/13 09:26 PM
09/01/13 09:26 PM
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Well first of all, correct the spelling of "pian" in the second question.... smile
("How do you best describe your pian playing level?")

I didn't realize it was just a spelling error; I thought it said "PLAN," thought it was an extra word that somehow got in there by mistake, and only realized what it was when I copy/pasted it for this post.

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142549
09/01/13 09:57 PM
09/01/13 09:57 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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Ack, corrected. Thanks!

So some folks left questions for me in the questionnaire, but didn't leave their e-mails. o_O So I'll answer them here and hope that they see this post.

Somebody asked about whether I would run into issues with using YouTube videos to play the music in the score. Not if I correctly use their API (the thing that lets me control YouTube video behavior using code, it's code that's provided by YouTube). I haven't looked at the terms recently, but years ago as long as you show the video you are OK. So that's something I would have to work out with the user interface.

Somebody asked about monetization and level of difficulty of this project. On monetization, I haven't figured that part out yet. There are a lot of ways to tackle this though (subscription for premium features, pay per score, charge the iPad App version, donations), but I think the first thing is to create something people love to use. smile I also want this personally so I can better annotate and study music that I play, so at least one person will find this useful. As for difficulty of this project, it can get difficult because there are so many features right now. Part of this research part is to figure out what features I can cut out, prioritize and so forth. I've done similar projects in the past, so maybe I can reuse some knowledge there.

Keep the responses coming, they are really helpful! Thanks

Last edited by neuralfirings; 09/01/13 09:58 PM.

Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142552
09/01/13 10:00 PM
09/01/13 10:00 PM
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This is an amazing idea. If you end up developing it, I may even pay to use it.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142558
09/01/13 10:08 PM
09/01/13 10:08 PM
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I filled out your form. You're building something interesting and I can't wait to get a good number of people using it; I'd recommend it to my friends if it worked well.


Beethoven - Op.49 No.1 (sonata 19)
Czerny - Op.299 Nos. 5,7 (School of Velocity)
Liszt - S.172 No.2 (Consolation No.2)

Dream piece:
Rachmaninoff - Sonata 2, movement 2 in E minor
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142879
09/02/13 02:34 PM
09/02/13 02:34 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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Thanks guys! This is great, I hope whatever I build is useful for people--that's the most important part.

What features would you guys find most useful though? One thing I really need is a prioritized list of features (lots to do, not a lot of time). I'm thinking doing annotations first, then embedding music snippets into blog/forum posts, then syncing to recordings. That's what I would find most useful in my study. But if others find different features more useful, I'd be happy to reshuffle my priorities.

Last edited by neuralfirings; 09/02/13 02:49 PM.

Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2142881
09/02/13 02:37 PM
09/02/13 02:37 PM
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All I'd be using is the annotations (and maybe the embedding), and I think that's definitely the most important one. You got that right. Your other two seem to be in order as well. smile


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143053
09/02/13 06:48 PM
09/02/13 06:48 PM
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Mark Polishook Offline
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neuralfirings,

looks like an interesting project. looks to me like you're crowdsourcing musical analysis. with a good interface there's probably be a lot of interesting stuff.

i could see the final project having great applications in university music course. so instead of an assignment (as it's usually done) where each student turns in an analysis the whole process could be an online discussion where everyone contributes and tags something.

i'm going to take a guess which is something moodle (open-source course management software) probably has a published api. blackboard might too but i don't know. with the api you could build your analysis application into those platforms (moodle and blackboard) so discussion could take place and teachers could grade things easily and distribute comments to students.

also, you might take a look at music 21

http://web.mit.edu/music21/

it's a python library that you could probably embed into your application in some form or another. so your users could go to say a chopin ballade and do a search for every instance of some chord progression or voice leading thing or melody or whatever ... one way to do it would be to put a gui over music 21 with kinds of things you'd envision your users searching for. then let music21 do it's work and that's info that could get tagged into your database.

your project looks great! so hope this stuff helps. i know it's a little outside of what you're looking for ...

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: Mark Polishook] #2143414
09/03/13 11:06 AM
09/03/13 11:06 AM
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Wow! Music21 is amazing. Thanks so much for the tip.

@Mark Polishook: Are you a developer? I'm not actually a developer, more of a product manager. I do like hacking together code and building web products. So this type of guidance towards libraries and other platforms I can build on top of is very helpful.

Last edited by neuralfirings; 09/03/13 11:06 AM.

Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143463
09/03/13 01:02 PM
09/03/13 01:02 PM
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That's the greatest idea ever, I added the idea of having a piece technique difficulty index, where people can rate the piece's difficulty in terms of different techniques, and refer people who want a piece to improve a certain technique.


"If I decide to be an idiot, then I'll be an idiot on my own accord."
- Johann Sebastian Bach.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: PrestoConFuocco] #2143502
09/03/13 02:40 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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That's genius! How many times have I read threads about ranking things by difficulty, or is x more difficult than y. Then there's usually some reply going it's technically easier, but musically it's more difficult. But what about it is technically more challenging (chords jumps all over the keyboard? impossible runs?); and musically what's difficult (inner voices, heavy chord work, transitions).

I love that idea! Also... it's relatively easy to implement, so that gives your idea bonus points. laugh


Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143553
09/03/13 04:41 PM
09/03/13 04:41 PM
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Mark Polishook Offline
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Originally Posted by neuralfirings
Wow! Music21 is amazing. Thanks so much for the tip.

@Mark Polishook: Are you a developer? I'm not actually a developer, more of a product manager. I do like hacking together code and building web products. So this type of guidance towards libraries and other platforms I can build on top of is very helpful.


@Neuralfirings .. I'm not a developer (I'm a pianist and a former professor of music theory) but I've worked on a lot music projects with code and have done a fair amount of programming. I mean enough programming to pick up music21 or hack stuff together.

I could see music21 embedded in it, say as scripting language advanced users could get to.

Whatever direction you take it my opinion is it's a great idea!


Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143564
09/03/13 05:06 PM
09/03/13 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by neuralfirings
Ack, corrected. Thanks!

So some folks left questions for me in the questionnaire, but didn't leave their e-mails. o_O

Somebody asked about whether I would run into issues with using YouTube videos to play the music in the score. Not if I correctly use their API (the thing that lets me control YouTube video behavior using code, it's code that's provided by YouTube). I haven't looked at the terms recently, but years ago as long as you show the video you are OK. So that's something I would have to work out with the user interface.
...

Sorry, I didn't really want an answer...um... laugh I just wanted to make sure you wouldn't...you know...get yourself sued for trying to be helpful; there's doctors for that! laugh But I'm glad you're aware of how...fine what you're planning to do is; just be okay, okay? ^_^
Xxx


Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143572
09/03/13 05:28 PM
09/03/13 05:28 PM
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Louis Podesta Offline
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Originally Posted by neuralfirings
I bounced around an idea a while back on Piano World that is starting to take some more shape. It's a website to facilitate analyzing music scores. I want to get some feedback on the idea before moving to design the site. I created a questionnaire that presents the idea and gathers feedback: http://musical.neuralfirings.com/scoresprojectresearch/

This link goes more in depth about the product I envision and what some major features are. If you have a minute and can take a look, I'd appreciate the feedback! The first page is to get a general sense of how people use sheet music, the second page describes the site and some mockups, then that last page is for feedback on the site.

Let me know if anything in the survey is unclear. Thanks!


Let me get this straight: this website is not for concrete research related projects, but is instead, more like an Internet "Pub" for classical pianists.

Please continue, I never thought I would get this lucky. Do you really think I am going to let you guys, especially the moderators, get away with this subterfuge?

First, we have Laguna Greg being allowed to promote his business, and now this. Bring it on!

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: Louis Podesta] #2143600
09/03/13 06:14 PM
09/03/13 06:14 PM
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Old Man Offline
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Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
Originally Posted by neuralfirings
I bounced around an idea a while back on Piano World that is starting to take some more shape. It's a website to facilitate analyzing music scores. I want to get some feedback on the idea before moving to design the site. I created a questionnaire that presents the idea and gathers feedback: http://musical.neuralfirings.com/scoresprojectresearch/

This link goes more in depth about the product I envision and what some major features are. If you have a minute and can take a look, I'd appreciate the feedback! The first page is to get a general sense of how people use sheet music, the second page describes the site and some mockups, then that last page is for feedback on the site.

Let me know if anything in the survey is unclear. Thanks!


Let me get this straight: this website is not for concrete research related projects, but is instead, more like an Internet "Pub" for classical pianists.

Please continue, I never thought I would get this lucky. Do you really think I am going to let you guys, especially the moderators, get away with this subterfuge?

First, we have Laguna Greg being allowed to promote his business, and now this. Bring it on!

Louis, what's the problem? Have you not promoted your own video "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong"? Just as you are not selling your video, the OP is not selling his proposed web site. He's simply doing a little market research. He's sounding out the very people most likely to use his service, so he will know whether or not it's worth investing the time and energy to start up a web site. There's no point in building it if no one will come. If he was saying, "And a monthly subscription is only $3.95", that would be an entirely different story.

Yes, I do believe Pianist Corner is a kind of "pub": A mix of friends, acquaintances, and perfect strangers. Everyone is free to speak, and that includes saying things like, "Hey, I've got this crazy idea for a web site I'd like to run past you." I would hardly call PC a subterfuge for these sorts of nefarious, capitalist pursuits. grin

Last edited by Old Man; 09/03/13 06:15 PM.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143652
09/03/13 07:23 PM
09/03/13 07:23 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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@Old Man -- "she" smile Thanks for your comments!

@Louis Podesta -- I think this could be very complementary to Piano World. How many times have this scenario happened. Somebody posts "I'm having trouble with the last bit before the coda." Somebody else ask for measure numbers. Silence.. crickets.. which makes sense because (especially if it's a long piece) the OP is probably going through his sheet music, counting up until measure 318, making sure he didn't miscount, end up taking a photo of the score, uploading to the computer, uploading again to photobucket or some image server, wait.. signs up for an account first on photobucket, now upload, and finally copy/paste the link onto the original thread. All this just so somebody else could respond referencing something in measure 258 of another edition. So back to IMSLP, find that edition, count the measures up to 258....

Wouldn't it be better to just enter in the bar numbers on some website, and copy/paste the image onto a Piano World post?

Last edited by neuralfirings; 09/03/13 07:52 PM.

Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143680
09/03/13 08:45 PM
09/03/13 08:45 PM
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Old Man Offline
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Originally Posted by neuralfirings
@Old Man -- "she" smile Thanks for your comments!

Sorry, neural. I need to read signatures more carefully. blush

Last edited by Old Man; 09/04/13 08:18 AM.
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: Old Man] #2143708
09/03/13 09:41 PM
09/03/13 09:41 PM
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Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
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Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by Old Man
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
Originally Posted by neuralfirings
I bounced around an idea a while back on Piano World that is starting to take some more shape. It's a website to facilitate analyzing music scores. I want to get some feedback on the idea before moving to design the site. I created a questionnaire that presents the idea and gathers feedback: http://musical.neuralfirings.com/scoresprojectresearch/

This link goes more in depth about the product I envision and what some major features are. If you have a minute and can take a look, I'd appreciate the feedback! The first page is to get a general sense of how people use sheet music, the second page describes the site and some mockups, then that last page is for feedback on the site.

Let me know if anything in the survey is unclear. Thanks!


Let me get this straight: this website is not for concrete research related projects, but is instead, more like an Internet "Pub" for classical pianists.

Please continue, I never thought I would get this lucky. Do you really think I am going to let you guys, especially the moderators, get away with this subterfuge?

First, we have Laguna Greg being allowed to promote his business, and now this. Bring it on!

Louis, what's the problem? Have you not promoted your own video "Your Piano Teacher Taught You Wrong"? Just as you are not selling your video, the OP is not selling his proposed web site. He's simply doing a little market research. He's sounding out the very people most likely to use his service, so he will know whether or not it's worth investing the time and energy to start up a web site. There's no point in building it if no one will come. If he was saying, "And a monthly subscription is only $3.95", that would be an entirely different story.

Yes, I do believe Pianist Corner is a kind of "pub": A mix of friends, acquaintances, and perfect strangers. Everyone is free to speak, and that includes saying things like, "Hey, I've got this crazy idea for a web site I'd like to run past you." I would hardly call PC a subterfuge for these sorts of nefarious, capitalist pursuits. grin


Just ignore him. He's p*****, because no one is really buying his crap.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143728
09/03/13 09:58 PM
09/03/13 09:58 PM
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Ya stores is right. I've had LP on ignore since the scores thread. Not sure who let him on the internet but it turns out there is a button to get him off.


Bad spellers of the world untie!
Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2143795
09/03/13 11:32 PM
09/03/13 11:32 PM
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Nikolas Offline
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Never mind Louis. His comment was probably aimed at me. But since he's acting up like that, when he actually doesn't care to reply to anyone's comment, but his own... I don't care to follow up on anything.

BUT, I won't put him on my ignore list. I have absolutely no time, but I won't let him do as he pleases to newcomers because they don't know him!

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: Louis Podesta] #2143862
09/04/13 04:35 AM
09/04/13 04:35 AM
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Michael Sayers Offline
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Originally Posted by Louis Podesta

Let me get this straight: this website is not for concrete research related projects, but is instead, more like an Internet "Pub" for classical pianists.

Please continue, I never thought I would get this lucky. Do you really think I am going to let you guys, especially the moderators, get away with this subterfuge?

First, we have Laguna Greg being allowed to promote his business, and now this. Bring it on!


Louis, I get the impression that you have something against market exchange when music is involved. The best thing would be for you to think like an entrepreneur and strive for success on that basis, rather than as seems to be the case resenting the efforts of others to provide music related goods and services.

Everyone's success is interconnected . . . it is competitive yet not oppositional in the way that you perceive it, this success is not dependent on harming anyone and instead is based on generating value in terms of how much the particular goods and services are wanted or needed.

Being a businessman can be very demanding with weeks, months and even years of long hours with next to nothing in return, and can involve much additional tremendous self-sacrifice and risk taking. Businessmen should be admired for their efforts to satisfy us, not castigated.

Isn't life including for musicians much improved in many respects thanks to Apple and Microsoft products?

Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and others have my gratitude for placing into the past the days of having to obtain music scores through inter-library loan and physical mail order!

And one can get so much better oriented, and much more rapidly, with Google Earth than a bundle of maps . . . though not completed the Google historical news archive is fabulous, and one can now hold a recording studio in the palm of one's hand . . .


M.

Re: Thoughts, feedback on a music scores project? [Re: neuralfirings] #2146499
09/08/13 04:16 PM
09/08/13 04:16 PM
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neuralfirings Offline OP
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Hey all, I spent some time this weekend working on this project and cobbled together a demo. It's the bare bones but I think it will still be fun for you to play around with. smile

Check it out at http://www.notablescores.com/. You can sign up to be notified when we invite users. The site outside of the demo page isn't really up to snuff, so I can't open up the site just yet.

The demo is of the first page of the Moonlight. You can click the link under the Invite List Button to sign in with the demo account. Let me know what you guys think!

PS. I also did a write up of the survey results in case anybody was interested.


Working on Beethoven's Appassionata Sonata, Mvt 3.

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