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Very nice!

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It's a beautiful piano. Congrats!!

I just bought a used upright, it would be a dream to have a grand piano someday.

How big of a room is needed for a 5' grand like yours?


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I have not played a Toyama but I like Brodmann, a lot of value for the money. I got a little stuck on your comparison to something almost 10X the price and significantly bigger in size. It's like you held it out there so I had to take a swing at it! laugh

Congratulations on your new piano. Practice a lot!

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First of all, OP stated many times that he never said a Toyama TG2 was as good as a Yamaha S4. All he said was that HIS toyana reminded him of the S4s HE played. He is entitled to his own opinion, just as anyone else on this forum. So if you are an S4 owner and anxious about his comment, well, don't be.

That being said, due to the relative small amount of information about Toyama piano here, his opinion does carry large weight. Therefore I did some research on the web, especially among Chinese piano forums.

It seems that Toyama is one of the major piano brands in China, and hundreds if not thousands postings can be found on Toyama upright and grand pianos. The pianos are built in factories across three , not just one, major cities in China. Their original business plan was in fact to mimic and to compete head-to-head with Japanese Yamaha. In realty, however, consumers tend to compare them with other local brands rather than imports.

The overall feedbacks seem to be that, even though it is more expensive, the quality of a Toyama is similar to that of a Pearl River. Sound or tone is never the problem. In fact many people liken its sound to that of a Yamaha (which is a big compliment over there). But quality issues, such as uneven keys, stuck keys, cracking case, etc. are common. And that is the major reason many people there bought the cheaper Pearl River over Toyama.

Therefore, it turns out that, the anonymous Yahoo Answers posting is an accurate summary of the popular comments in China.

Disclaimer: I have never played on any Toyama.

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iMou,

Thanks for the picture. Does that window get direct sunlight? You might want to have some sort of screen or blinds there to help protect the finish of the piano. I've also read from technicians that sunlight moving across the piano can cause the tuning of the instrument to change over the course of the day as well.

Did the dealer have multiple Toyamas in this size in their inventory? If so, were they consistent from one to the next?


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Thanks for posting the pictures! It is a beautiful piano!

Congratulations again!

Rick


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Originally Posted by jc201306
It seems that Toyama is one of the major piano brands in China, and hundreds if not thousands postings can be found on Toyama upright and grand pianos.


Its interesting that you say that, as when I did research on them I didn't find much at all!
All I have been told, and I can see is that Toyama is just another name Brodmann go under in other parts of the world. But when I think about it, I think it is more Brodmann is the name Toyama uses in the US.
And I understand the dealer wants to make a sale, but he told me that the Toyamas they have sent to very dry parts of Australia are still holding up just as well as Yamahas they have sent to very dry places, sooo perhaps those postings you read about cracking cases exec are old and the quality has been improved.

Originally Posted by terminaldegree
iMou,

Thanks for the picture. Does that window get direct sunlight? You might want to have some sort of screen or blinds there to help protect the finish of the piano. I've also read from technicians that sunlight moving across the piano can cause the tuning of the instrument to change over the course of the day as well.

Did the dealer have multiple Toyamas in this size in their inventory? If so, were they consistent from one to the next?

I do normally have blinds, just had to remove them when I repainted the room just before the piano came. I am yet to find time to put them back up, and have just been using a very thick blanket as a curtain for the past month! But during the day, there is no direct sunlight coming down on the piano because of trees in the yard and the roof stretches out around the house just enough to stop the sun directly the piano. Its one of the main reasons I chose to make this room my studio smile

Also, yes, they had plenty of Toyamas on the show room floor, brand new ones, and ones that had been rented out for a year or 2 and returned, and I have to say that each piano played just like the next! They were very identical and didn't vary much at all- except for the ones that had a "Needs to be tuned" note on them :P haha but even then, the ones in need of a tune were not too bad either! And when my piano arrived 400kms from the dealer, it still had almost perfect tuning! So hopefully thats a good sign for the future that it has good tuning stability.




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Originally Posted by peekay
It's a beautiful piano. Congrats!!

I just bought a used upright, it would be a dream to have a grand piano someday.

How big of a room is needed for a 5' grand like yours?

Thank you! smile
Well my studio/music room is about 9 square metres smile


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Originally Posted by iMou354
Originally Posted by jc201306
It seems that Toyama is one of the major piano brands in China, and hundreds if not thousands postings can be found on Toyama upright and grand pianos.


Its interesting that you say that, as when I did research on them I didn't find much at all!
All I have been told, and I can see is that Toyama is just another name Brodmann go under in other parts of the world. But when I think about it, I think it is more Brodmann is the name Toyama uses in the US.
And I understand the dealer wants to make a sale, but he told me that the Toyamas they have sent to very dry parts of Australia are still holding up just as well as Yamahas they have sent to very dry places, sooo perhaps those postings you read about cracking cases exec are old and the quality has been improved.


The postings I saw were all written in Chinese. Google "托雅玛钢琴", which is Toyama's Chinese name, and you will see the postings. I simply translated what I read for the benefit of the people on this form who do not read Chinese.

You are correct that these postings are mostly about the pianos sold within China. And the problems reported there may or may not show up in pianos Toyama exported abroad. Even iPhone and iPad are made in China. Chinese can build solid products if they want to.

Last edited by jc201306; 09/07/13 12:38 AM.
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It's beautiful! Congrats. I never got caught up with the pretension of name status either. I shopped and bought what felt great for me and my daughter. The action and features of my piano are more than adequate. If I ever need to upgrade I will (I upgraded three times in a short span). It's the same as my car... More features for the least investment. It's about getting the most bang for your buck and meeting your needs! I was not in the market for a new Baldwin based on what I heard but when my dealer and I discussed my price point he asked me to check one out. It was better than the others in its range and and had far more features. I have no regrets whatsoever. I don't think I ever walk by it without touching it. Lol it's like patting a kid on the head smile

Remember, this forum is full of enthusiasts and professionals so it's natural for them to critique but having your own grand is something that should highly valued smile.


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Originally Posted by iMou354
Thank you! smile
Well my studio/music room is about 9 square metres smile

Thanks for the info!

By the way, Brodmann isn't a Toyama brand name. Brodmann is a separate company altogether.

We must separate Toyama the brand name, and Toyama the manufacturing company.

Toyama the Chinese manufacturing company makes piano and components (under contract) for many other companies, as well as for its own Toyama brand, and under other domestic and international brand names as well.

Brodmann is an Austrian company, started by former Bosendorfer executives. To cut labor costs, Brodmann pianos are assembled partly or entirely in China (depending on the model), under Brodmann supervision. At the moment, Toyama is Brodmann's Chinese partner. The lower-end Brodmann models use mainly Chinese components, while the higher-end models use European components. The top-end Brodmanns receive final assembly and finishing in another Brodmann factory in Germany.

Brodmann also has another line of uprights and grands (called Taylor) made in China. However, I don't know Taylor pianos are also manufactured by Toyama, or by a different Chinese company.

Schimmel is an old German piano company, which also sells pianos made in China (under the May Berlin brand name). At least some May Berlin pianos / components are made by Toyama. Although manufactured in China, May Berlin pianos are sent to Schimmel's own factories in Germany for finishing and quality assurance (similar to higher end Brodmanns).

So Toyama the manufacturing company makes pianos & components for Brodmann and Schimmel, much like Foxconn makes iPhones in China for Apple. But Brodmann isn't Toyama, just like Apple isn't Foxconn.

Toyama also makes pianos for the domestic Chinese market. Most of these are of lower quality not suitable for export.

More recently, as you well know, Toyama makes pianos for the export market under its own Toyama brand. They seem to be competitive, good quality pianos. But there is very little information about their long term life, they are just too new.

Toyama is affiliated with Parsons, which operates a massive chain of music stores in HK and China.


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Beautiful Piano! Thanks for putting up pics.


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Originally Posted by peekay


Schimmel is an old German piano company, which also sells pianos made in China (under the May Berlin brand name). At least some May Berlin pianos / components are made by Toyama. Although manufactured in China, May Berlin pianos are sent to Schimmel's own factories in Germany for finishing and quality assurance (similar to higher end Brodmanns).


My understanding is that used to be true, but the assembly site changed some years ago. This information is, to some extent, no longer timely as the Schimmel brand has reorganized its product line and no longer uses the May Berlin name anymore. Updated information about this can be read in the "brand profiles" section of the Piano Buyer.


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Ah, thank you for the update.

I did review the new (Fall 2013) Piano Buyer profile for Schimmel, and the headline currently reads:

"Pianos made by: Wilhelm Schimmel Pianofortefabrik GmbH, Braunschweig, Germany (Schimmel) and Kalisz, Poland (Vogel and Wilhelm Schimmel); unspecified factory in China (May Berlin)" (emphasis mine)

So I incorrectly assumed the May Berlins were still being made.

The profile later does say that the May Berlin import was "Until 2012", just that this fact wasn't obvious from the beginning.


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Originally Posted by peekay
Originally Posted by iMou354
Thank you! smile
Well my studio/music room is about 9 square metres smile

Thanks for the info!

By the way, Brodmann isn't a Toyama brand name. Brodmann is a separate company altogether.

We must separate Toyama the brand name, and Toyama the manufacturing company.

Toyama the Chinese manufacturing company makes piano and components (under contract) for many other companies, as well as for its own Toyama brand, and under other domestic and international brand names as well.

Brodmann is an Austrian company, started by former Bosendorfer executives. To cut labor costs, Brodmann pianos are assembled partly or entirely in China (depending on the model), under Brodmann supervision. At the moment, Toyama is Brodmann's Chinese partner. The lower-end Brodmann models use mainly Chinese components, while the higher-end models use European components. The top-end Brodmanns receive final assembly and finishing in another Brodmann factory in Germany.

Brodmann also has another line of uprights and grands (called Taylor) made in China. However, I don't know Taylor pianos are also manufactured by Toyama, or by a different Chinese company.

Schimmel is an old German piano company, which also sells pianos made in China (under the May Berlin brand name). At least some May Berlin pianos / components are made by Toyama. Although manufactured in China, May Berlin pianos are sent to Schimmel's own factories in Germany for finishing and quality assurance (similar to higher end Brodmanns).

So Toyama the manufacturing company makes pianos & components for Brodmann and Schimmel, much like Foxconn makes iPhones in China for Apple. But Brodmann isn't Toyama, just like Apple isn't Foxconn.

Toyama also makes pianos for the domestic Chinese market. Most of these are of lower quality not suitable for export.

More recently, as you well know, Toyama makes pianos for the export market under its own Toyama brand. They seem to be competitive, good quality pianos. But there is very little information about their long term life, they are just too new.

Toyama is affiliated with Parsons, which operates a massive chain of music stores in HK and China.


Thank you so much for all this information! smile The dealer did actually tell me about the Bosendorfer/Brodmann connection.
And as you said the cheaper Brodmann pianos are manufactured in china, maybe those cheaper ones are the ones that get relabelled as Toyama and exported? Because they share a lot of the same things! Same pedal lyre, the same music desk prop things, same sound boards... Heck! They even share the same stock photos!
Toyama:
[Linked Image]
Brodmann:
[Linked Image]




Also, as a side note! These are some specs about the TG-2 baby grand I bought:
-German designed cabinet
-Solid Spruce soundboard
-Solid keyboard
-Roslau strings
-Laminated pinblock
-Japanese hammers with German VFG felt
-Slow close fall board

And here is the specs for the bigger model pictured above:
-German designed cabinet
-German Strunz Sound Board
-German Klinke Agraffes
-Röslau strings
-German Dehonit Pin Block
-German Abel Hammers
-Slow close fall board


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No problem, peekay-- I can see how that might be confusing. One of the tougher tasks when putting together the brand profiles is keeping abreast of the latest changes while still trying to provide information about previous models that consumers may come across at dealers or in the newer used market.

Thanks for reading.


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Hard to say just by looking at the exterior pictures.

Your grand actually does not match either of those stock pictures. There are slight differences I can see. I believe this is the correct image for your TG-2:

[Linked Image]

Also the specs on your TG-2 don't exactly line up with anything in the Brodmann catalogue. E.g., Brodmann doesn't actually have a 5' model (152cm). In the CE line they have a 4'11" and a 5'9" model. In the PE line they have a 4'11 and a 5'4" model.

So it could be a new or recycled design. Or maybe the specs are just measured differently.

One thing that's for sure... Toyama is working hard to step up their game! I think they've seen the relative success Pearl River, Hailun, etc., are having abroad -- and they'd like to join the party. smile


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Originally Posted by terminaldegree
No problem, peekay-- I can see how that might be confusing. One of the tougher tasks when putting together the brand profiles is keeping abreast of the latest changes while still trying to provide information about previous models that consumers may come across at dealers or in the newer used market.

Thanks for reading.


I admit, when I didn't see May Berlin listed on Schimmel's (horrible) website, I went to check the Piano Buyer guide -- but only to confirm what I thought I already knew in my head. So when I saw May Berlin listed in the beginning, I didn't actually bother to read the rest of the profile. Oops. My bad! Sometimes we only see, what we want to see. smile


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Originally Posted by peekay
Hard to say just by looking at the exterior pictures.

Your grand actually does not match either of those stock pictures. There are slight differences I can see. I believe this is the correct image for your TG-2:

[Linked Image]

Also the specs on your TG-2 don't exactly line up with anything in the Brodmann catalogue. E.g., Brodmann doesn't actually have a 5' model (152cm). In the CE line they have a 4'11" and a 5'9" model. In the PE line they have a 4'11 and a 5'4" model.

So it could be a new or recycled design. Or maybe the specs are just measured differently.

One thing that's for sure... Toyama is working hard to step up their game! I think they've seen the relative success Pearl River, Hailun, etc., are having abroad -- and they'd like to join the party. smile


Yes, you're right, my piano wasn't one of those stock pictures I posted, sorry I should have been clear about that :P The one I posted is the Toyama TC-187 smile And yes, that is the picture for my TG-2 smile

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Once a manufacturer brings out different lines of pianos, it always ends up in all kinds of confusions of sorts.

Companies are interested in stream-lining production costs, using same/similar parts and suppliers only making sense.

Ever noticed striking similarities of some details by car manufacturers such as VW and Audi?

The products are not exactly same, but undeniably related.

Same with all pianos made by Parsons including the new line of Chinese made Baldwins.

Now, if one finds some Chinese makers also making pianos for German manufacturers and then having these pianos appear later on market under "made in Europe" or even "made in Germany", things take on a decidedly different nature.

In this regard, Toyama is a child of innocence.

Norbert



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