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#2143777 - 09/04/13 12:02 AM Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price?  
Joined: Feb 2013
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phrygian Offline
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phrygian  Offline
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HI there-

Does anyone know what a 1982 Ibach 7ft "Richard Strauss" model that needs rebuilding would go for on the U.S. west coast at a dealership?

I have been shopping for about 6 months for a 7ft grand piano now for both practicing and recording- this past weekend I tried out the piano and I loved both the tone and touch. It fit like a glove. I tried other pianos the dealer had in the store of similar size, even more expensive, newer ones, and I kept coming back to the Ibach. I'm no tech but did notice that since all parts are original, it sounded like some things needed to be replaced, like strings, hammers, etc. Also, it had only one previous owner. I negotiated a price of $28,400 (plus tax) assuming a tech gave it his/her blessing.

A very reputable tech whom I trust examined the piano today and reported to me that in order to optimize it, it would need to be rebuilt- He reported:
it needs new strings, hammers, shanks, whippens, flanges, back checks, dampers, bushings. The bridge has cracks/splits, but that they are fixable. And whomever played it, played it hard. Also, chemicals had been applied to the pinblock, which would also need replaced. Also the agrafs. The sustain pedal also needs some work. The soundboard and crown are fine. He estimated this grand total costing over $21,000. I have enough to buy the piano but unfortunately not the extra $ to put into all this work, at least for now. Until today I was leaning toward getting it, but now there's no way I can afford all that. I'm bummed...

Does anyone know what a fair selling price for such a piano would be? Since Ibachs are so rare I really don't know what they are supposed to sell for- so before I completely give up on it and tell the dealer no, I'd at least like to know what kind of price cut I might be able to counter with, if any, based on the above information. I'm honestly not sure if the dealer really knows how much work is needed on the piano, or maybe he does, I don't know. He said his tech examined it and gave it a good bill of health, but it doesn't seem to have that... But perhaps a potential buyer who wouldn't want to use the piano for recording wouldn't really be that concerned, who knows? I should note here that I also respect the dealer- I've been in that shop once before and they seem very nice and fair.

Also it is worth noting that the piano has been for sale there since the end of March.

Any advice or ideas?

Thanks!

Last edited by phrygian; 09/04/13 01:01 AM.
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#2143794 - 09/04/13 12:20 AM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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Robert 45 Online content
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Robert 45  Online Content
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Auckland New Zealand
Hi again,
I am sure that this Ibach could be a nice piano. However, the grand total for the piano and the restoration work seems high.

I would also be cautious about restoration work as you can never be sure about the outcome. I would advise buying a piano after the work has been done and the piano has settled. Then you know how successful the rebuild has been.

Regards,
Robert.

#2143810 - 09/04/13 01:41 AM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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BDB Offline
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I suggest you get another tech to look at it. If that tech agrees with the first assessment, look for something else. If there is disagreement, then ask here again.


Semipro Tech
#2144197 - 09/04/13 06:47 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: BDB]  
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phrygian Offline
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phrygian  Offline
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HI Robert! Thanks for the words of wisdom- that's a good point you make. And yes, the price of the piano coupled with the estimate for rebuilding is way out of my range :-(

BDB- that is a good idea- I may bite the bullet and shell out the extra $ for that before I give up on it. I guess at worst, the piano is truly in need of that much work and I'm only out $150- but at best- the results may come out more positive, which would give me a glimmer of hope that it isn't as bad as it seems- haha

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#2144208 - 09/04/13 07:20 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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Dave B Offline
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Phrygian, is it the "Richard Strauss" Limited Edition designed by Richard Meier in 1995?


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
#2144225 - 09/04/13 07:51 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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Withindale Offline
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Suffolk, England
Here's one in London, http://www.marksonpianos.com/acoustic/pre_gr/.

It's 6' not 7', but I suspect you might do well to get a comparable 7' for the 6' asking price, so $45,000 - $50,000, but I don't know how London prices compare with the West Coast.

Would I be right in thinking it's not a Richard Meier?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#2144265 - 09/04/13 09:05 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: Withindale]  
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phrygian Offline
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HI Dave and Ian-
It's not the one designed by Richard Meier- if I remember I think that's the ultra sleek modern looking one?
It is a 7ft "Richard Strauss" model but built back in 1982

Last edited by phrygian; 09/04/13 09:08 PM.
#2144304 - 09/04/13 10:22 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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IMO, present the report to the dealer and see his response. If the dealer's cost is low enough, they may counter. But if it is not, they will have to wait for another customer who is accepting of faults. "Fair price" is irrelevant on such a unique situation - it's too rare. It's about finding a mutual agreement. There may or may not be one that is "fair" to all parties.

I know of several "train wreck" pianos that produce a lovely tone. It's like buying a beautiful home in a bad neighborhood or perhaps a bad home in a beautiful neighborhood. How badly do you want to live there?

The tech is your expert, working for your. You can get a second opinion, but for the litany of issues listed, most could be easily pointed out to you firsthand, not second hand. With even the most basic of explanations, bridge cracks are easy to see. Bad hammers are easy to see. Bad shanks are easy to see. Bad key bushings are easy to see.

I will say this. A total investment of $49k in a used Ibach even brought back to original condition puts you way upside down for what you could ever recoup solely because Ibach is a defunct brand. You can commonly see this with Baldwins, Aeolian-era Mason & Hamlins, most other pre-Aeolian greats, and others.


Sam Bennett
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#2144336 - 09/04/13 11:32 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
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phrygian Offline
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Thanks so much Sam-
all very good points.

"I know of several "train wreck" pianos that produce a lovely tone. It's like buying a beautiful home in a bad neighborhood or perhaps a bad home in a beautiful neighborhood. How badly do you want to live there?"

Well stated- I think this describes the piano exactly! It sounds really lovely, minus a few things here and there, but then there's all kinds of things going on under the "hood" that apparently need replaced. I know common sense would say this isn't the right piano and walk away- but I think the problem is that with the Ibach, I really found the "sound" that I love- just from personal preference, I haven't heard this kind of tone in any other piano. The touch was so nice too. The unfortunate thing is that the company is no longer making them (I think), so the possibility of me finding another used one in better condition might be slim...
But yea, I should definitely give this report to the dealer and see what happens.

#2144345 - 09/04/13 11:44 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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phrygian Offline
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Let me ask you guys this-
What would happen, just hypothetically, if I bought the piano (hopefully getting some kind of additional discount)
and within 6 months only replaced the hammers, strings, dampers, back checks, & key bushings? And any idea on what that would cost for just those parts & labor?

Then perhaps (depending on how the piano is sounding) replaced the rest at a later indefinite time? Would I be causing more damage to the piano by not doing the rest of the work, such as addressing the bridge, etc, right away? And would it be considered ridiculous to replace the aforementioned parts while not replacing all the other parts that needed it?

I think I'll post this question in the tech forum as well

Last edited by phrygian; 09/04/13 11:47 PM.
#2144373 - 09/05/13 12:34 AM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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Withindale Offline
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Withindale  Offline
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Suffolk, England
No longer relevant.

Last edited by Withindale; 09/05/13 11:01 AM.

Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#2144730 - 09/05/13 05:18 PM Re: Please help- 1982 Ibach 7ft Richard Strauss price? [Re: phrygian]  
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phrygian Offline
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Thank you all for the comments- that was VERY helpful. Good to know- the price is way too much for what the piano is worth- so I've just emailed the dealer to see if they will reduce, based on the tech's report. Likely not, in which case I will just have to move on, but we'll see.

thank you again!


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