Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Chopin E major scherzo Opus 54

"Do you even play the piano?" LOL

No, nope.. I don't.

And I think Mark is a pretty honest guy around here. You two butt heads often because more times than not the discussion is opinion based, and yours frequently differ from Mark's. He's not 'out to get you' so to speak. That's just how I see it at least.

By the way, you still have done nothing but make statements with no facts supporting them. Good luck trying to win arguments that way.

No response to my post about structuring climaxes?

I don't really have anything to say in particular because I agree with what you said.

Goodness gracious...I could not disagree more.

the 3rd and 4th scherzi are, in my opinion, better compositions than the first two which I believe suffer from structural weaknesses. Even the great Chopin masters can't avoid the feeling of repetitiveness. Again, this is obviously just my opinion.

He "fixes" this in the 3rd scherzo with a much more compact piece which I find to be extremely effective. It also has a mind blowing coda which is one of my absolute favorite endings of Chopin. This along with gorgeous and powerful main themes makes this a staple in my repertoire.

The 4th, while matching the first two in duration (maybe surpassing it, I'm not quite sure) surpasses the first two as far as sheer quality of content. It is a masterpiece on par with the 4th ballade, barcarolle, sonatas, and I'd even put it on the same pedestal as other monumental piano pieces like the Hammerklavier, Bminor sonata (Liszt), Goldberg Variations, etc.

It's one of those pieces that make you wonder what planet Chopin came from lol!

May I submit my personal favorite performance of this incredible piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CNYX7OkceA

Am studying it now... and it's my first big Chopin work

As my teacher said it is technically not as difficult as the rest however musically it is much harder to hold together...not saying that it isn't technically challenging either; there are a few passages which are not that easy to play perfectly& really get a grasp off.

I love it though esp. that minor section in the middle and at the end of that section right before I goes back to the main subject I always get this feeling as if I'm soaring.

Then your teacher is delusional.

Although I wouldn't have put it how he did.... .....Polyphonist has it right about the piece.


Just about everything in the outer sections is very hard to play.

UNLESS, we don't care about tempo, or evenness, or clarity.

Not to mention just plain accuracy. (Unless we don't care about tempo or evenness or clarity.)

But don't get me wrong: It's great that you're studying the piece. But there's a lot that you aren't realizing about it if you really think what you said.

Are you sure you didn't somehow misunderstand your teacher??

pianist.ame,

Good luck with it. I studied it for a while but decided to put it on the shelf. The descending staccato chords are the hardest part of the entire piece - too hard for me.

What a cretin you are.

As much as I hate to waste a post just with "huh," I have to say (on Poly's behalf, not that he needs my help):

HUH????

Get out.

I think the technical/muscial duality is non sense. Of course we cannot split into 2 mutually exclusive concepts. A different belief may come from the confusion between technical and mechanical concepts.

Mechanical skills are the ability to play scales, arpeggios, thirds, jumps, octaves with minimal effort ... this is just a subset of technical skills. And certainly not the larger part.

But how to play the first 2 lines of the fourth ballade, if you are not backed by amazing technical skills ?
Phrasing the upper part just naturally, managing perfect legato, leaving the background in the background, producing constantly a transparent sound, giving to the bass just the good weight ... this is just horrific. What a technical mastery is needed to do justice to this unreal music...

Good insights. Probably stores is confusing velocity with technique.

stores doesn't get confused. He's always right.

Anybody want to mention favorite passages? I've discussed a few myself-





Anyone?

Yes, this it was stunning learning these passages. Once you uncover ever little harmony you see it in a new light. One of the best spots in the piece.



I like this description. I love how the "burst of sunlight" happens at the very top of the run. It's minor all the way up to the top then BOOM, sudden change of character. And not the mention that left hand chord at the end. What is the theoretical name for this chord? (inverted dominant7 with a 6th?) I used it quite often in my two miniatures. It's my favorite kind of chord.

?

?

This is one of my favorite Chopin pieces, up there alongside Opus 52, 58, 60, 62, and maybe a few others.

Come to think of it, that would be an interesting thread - favorite pieces for each composer - we could learn a lot about people's personalities from that. Maybe I'll start it.