2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
55 members (Badger1966, Beemer, 1957, Beowulf, Blue72, accordeur, anotherscott, 10 invisible), 393 guests, and 427 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
#2143086 09/02/13 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Does anyone know the best source for getting either a paper sheet book or high quality pdf for the Bach Inventions 772-786?

I need the fingering cues, but am not interested in any added ornamental notations. Does Schirmer's have the fingering?

Also, I would like a relatively large staff, since my eyes aren't the greatest. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.


Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2143531 09/03/13 04:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,948
J
jdw Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,948
Hmm, guess I'm not the only one who doesn't really know the answer to your questions. My edition is Kalmus, which has some suggested fingerings. I haven't compared it with other editions, though.


1989 Baldwin R
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2143537 09/03/13 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.

Henle provides editions both with and without fingering, so by being careful about which publication number you buy, you can acquire fingerings that way. There won't be any ornaments added beyond what appears in the original sources.

If you can find these on sheetmusicplus.com, then you can look at the preview pages to gauge the staff size.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
PianoStudent88 #2143565 09/03/13 06:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 247
A
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 247
Hmm...I have the Schirmer edition with the Czerny fingerings which I like, but the staff size isn't huge. I find it also does a good job with separating out ornaments and those kinds of things.


[Linked Image]
Works in Progress:
Rachmaninoff: Prelude Op 23 No 4

Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2143607 09/03/13 07:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,936
Z
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,936
Richard Jones edited the ABRSM editions in both the Signature Series (Inventions and Sinfonias) and the Easier Piano Pieces series (just the Two Part Inventions).

The print is very clear in both editions and I tend to prefer them over Henle.

I have the Edition Peters with Czerny's fingerings and the Augener edition with Franklin Taylor's but I think that'll be out of print by now. Neither are as clear as the ABRSM editions.



Richard
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
PianoStudent88 #2143774 09/03/13 11:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,313
C
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,313
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.



I'm using this. Yes the fingerings are suggested, I don't really use them.
The print is so large that an invention typically covers 3 pages (rather than the usual 2 on musicnotes.com).
I usually photocopy the 3rd page so that I don't have to turn any pages when I play the invention.

Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
custard apple #2143911 09/04/13 08:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
A
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by custard apple
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
If Alfred Masterworks has an edition, probably edited by Palmer, I would expect that to have fingerings in it. There may be suggestions of ornaments, but they would be printed in grey type so you can easily tell they are editorial.



I'm using this. Yes the fingerings are suggested, I don't really use them.
The print is so large that an invention typically covers 3 pages (rather than the usual 2 on musicnotes.com).
I usually photocopy the 3rd page so that I don't have to turn any pages when I play the invention.


I'm also using this edition and like the slightly larger format. The fingering suggestions are usually pretty good - there are a number of times I have thought, "nope, this will work better" and after a week go back to the one they suggested.


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2143931 09/04/13 09:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Thanks for the replies, and I will look into all of this. I'm finding the fingering by far to be the single most important barrier to playing BWV 772. Since I'm already something of a piano hack without formal training, I find I can read these notes OK, and that my fingers are fluid enough to play them without too much trouble (at least at relatively slow tempos), but this Bach stuff is (of course) really, really cleverly designed, and if you don't finger them properly, it becomes "oops" I've run out of fingers...

...I reflexively use a 5 when I need a 4, or a 1 when I need a 2 at the beginning of a run, that sort of thing. I clearly have some very bad, sloppy fingering habits to unlearn and relearn.


Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2143938 09/04/13 09:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
P
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,291
One thing to do is to work out your fingerings slowly, carefully, with much going back and forth and revising measure by measure or even note by note as you work it out and discover you've run out of fingers a measure later. This is note by note, before you start practicing it. Then when you have a fingering that works, write it in and follow it. That will prevent accidentally running out of fingers.

The fun begins when there doesn't seem to be any fingering that doesn't run out of fingers... this is one of the reasons I like fingered editions, even when I modify their fingerings.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
PianoStudent88 #2144365 09/05/13 12:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
O
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,765
I have both the Henle and the Wiener Urtext with fingerings, I do prefer the latter, it's somehow easier for my eyes. But for more complete fingerings, you could check out the Busoni edition:
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/b/b2/IMSLP42098-PMLP03267-Inventions_Busoni.pdf

I usually have to figure out much of the fingerings myself anyway due to my hand shape...

Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
Psychonaut #2144450 09/05/13 04:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 184
P
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 184
In Bach Inventions, there are many repeating patterns. So as much as possible, you want to use the same fingering for the same/similar patterns.

E.g., in BWV 772, for the right hand, rising notes might start with finger 1 and descending ones might start with the 4th finger (just before the next beat at the 3rd finger).

There are exceptions of course, but maybe 80% of the Invention might be fingered consistently in this way.

The more you notice these patterns, the more consistent / efficient your fingering will be. So you can build your fingering for whole patterns and even phrases, instead of note-by-note. This will help the musicality of your playing as well.

Last edited by peekay; 09/05/13 04:08 AM.

Working on RCM Grade 8
Re: Bach Inventions Sheet Music Question
outo #2144504 09/05/13 08:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by outo
I have both the Henle and the Wiener Urtext with fingerings, I do prefer the latter, it's somehow easier for my eyes. But for more complete fingerings, you could check out the Busoni edition:
http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/b/b2/IMSLP42098-PMLP03267-Inventions_Busoni.pdf

I usually have to figure out much of the fingerings myself anyway due to my hand shape...


Awesome resource, thank you! I went ahead and purchased a Czerny spiral-bound edition of both the two and three part Inventions, as well as a book called The Complete Book of Scales, Chords, Arpeggios and Cadences from Alfred Publishing, but will definitely be exploring this Busoni pdf too.

Last edited by Psychonaut; 09/05/13 09:27 AM.

Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP Buyer Needs Help :-)
by Badger1966 - 10/21/20 09:12 AM
Kawai es920 - record onto Android Smartphone
by big-vern - 10/21/20 04:51 AM
MP11SE in stock at bhphoto.com
by mivaldes - 10/20/20 10:35 PM
most common non ET temperaments in 2020?
by MartF - 10/20/20 08:56 PM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,334
Posts3,015,668
Members98,964
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4