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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138186
08/24/13 08:53 AM
08/24/13 08:53 AM
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Most of us know each others abilities or can guess really quickly. I've never been disappointed by a recording in an ABF recital or in the piano bar. I think it's clear that the performer is doing their best and that's really appreciated.

No-one here that I'm aware of expects anything more than enthusiastic participation. I'm trying to think why else we're doing this.

ETA: That's my performance excused! smile

Last edited by zrtf90; 08/24/13 08:53 AM.

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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138210
08/24/13 09:59 AM
08/24/13 09:59 AM
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I made comments this ABF recital on how people could improve. Or at least, how I though they could play even better. I hope people received these comments in the spirit they were given. I tried to be encouraging and positive with where people were at. And only gave suggestions when people said they were open to them. Clearly, we are all putting ourselves out there and take a risk when we share our playing. But, being in the same boat as each other, I would hope we're all a bit more accepting of the differences in each's abilities. Overall, I have found PW and ABF especially, to be very supportive and just generally a great experience. It's nice to finally have some peers with whom to discuss and share things. I think it's understood that we are all doing the best we can at any given time. Sure we want to improve. That's why we practice!!! But, where we're at is where we're at. No judgement implied. None of us are pros!!!


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138796
08/25/13 01:07 PM
08/25/13 01:07 PM
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I managed a recording of the Scherzo op.54/5, and uploaded it to my YouTube-Channel.
Decent enough to recognize the piece, I hope.
When submission date arrives, I'll upload the MP3.

Since I have yet to learn the Shepherd's Boy, I will stick with this version of the Scherzo, I guess.


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138813
08/25/13 01:42 PM
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patH, congratulations on having recorded. For the themed recitals, you just send the YouTube video link to your opus leader. No mp3 needed.

This is different from the ABF recitals, where an mp3 is required.


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138856
08/25/13 02:59 PM
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Regarding Opus 65 Number 3, Tungsinn (Melancholy), I have two questions.

1. m. 7 vs. m. 13. Mm. 4-9 are in B minor. Mm. 10-15 are a perfect real imitation in F# minor, except for the second bass clef note of m. 7 (C#) vs. m. 13 (G). To make the imitation perfect, I would expect either C natural in m. 7 or G# in m. 13. Is this discrepancy (C# and G natural) deliberate?

2. M. 6 "cresc. e stretto" vs. mm. 17-18 "cresc. string." What is the difference between stretto and stringendo? I have always thought of them both as "growing faster and louder", but my web search tells me that louder isn't part of the definition (ok), and that stretto is "faster" while stringendo is "growing faster" (hmmmm). They're both parts of speech of the Italian verb stringere: stretto is a past participle and stringendo is a gerund. So does this mean in the stretto passage I should abruptly get faster, while in the stringendo passage I should stretch it out? And how are either of these different from a garden variety accelerando?


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138896
08/25/13 04:12 PM
08/25/13 04:12 PM
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I'm taking advantage of Dad's (better ) piano for my recordings, and the chance to get some coaching. So with him (Beric) here - I've asked for his advice on your questions and he says:

"Question 1
There is no discrepancy, compare the LH in bars (measures) 7,8 and 9 with bars 13,14 and 15: with the exception of bass bar 13 leaping down an augmented 6th instead of a major 6th as in bar 7.

Question 2
'Stringendo' - to perform with more tension, and specifically, faster: often to indicate the development towards some climax. The past participle of the same word is stretto.

'stretto' - means 'serre' tight, and is very often placed to indicate that one should make the beats tight or short and consequently very fast.(producing a hurried effect)

Source: the new grove dictionary of music

In the OCM, the definitions are:
stretto - means drawn together - accelerando

stringendo - means PROGRESSIVELY quickening/squeezing

so take your pick - it looks like the differences could be infinitessimal - so I'm not sure if that helps at all.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138908
08/25/13 04:40 PM
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Thanks, Dipsy and Beric.
Originally Posted by Dipsy channeling Beric
There is no discrepancy, compare the LH in bars (measures) 7,8 and 9 with bars 13,14 and 15: with the exception of bass bar 13 leaping down an augmented 6th instead of a major 6th as in bar 7.

(My emphasis.). It's that single note exception which I'm asking about. Everything else is the same except for that single note. I'm wondering why that single note is different, or if it's an error in the score.


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: PianoStudent88] #2138913
08/25/13 04:55 PM
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- I'd hazard a guess that Grieg has never written a transposed phrase with such a tiny alteration so on that basis it's an error in the score.

Austbo plays G# in bar 13, Nokleberg plays G nat, as written. We'll never know which is correct (both maj 6 or aug 6)

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138926
08/25/13 05:19 PM
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I would play G#. All the G's from M10 are sharpened from the modulation to the dominant and put it down to poor proofreading.

Did you pick it up from the sound or from analysis?



Richard
Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138930
08/25/13 05:27 PM
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Ha, me pick something up from the sound? Rotfl.

No, I picked it up because when I was focusing on learning those two measures and comparing what they felt like, I noticed that one measure had a half step between fingers 4 and 5 and the other measure had a whole step.

I'm really impressed that dire tonic can tell who is playing which note just by listening.

Last edited by PianoStudent88; 08/25/13 05:36 PM. Reason: switch half step and whole step to avoid chiasm (and no, the i is not a typo)

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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2138934
08/25/13 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
I'm really impressed that dire tonic can tell who is playing which note just by listening.
It's mind blowing. The first post I remember reading of his was quite remarkable. He picked out a G and a Gb or something in the one chord. You would have gone for an F# but he just gets the note. Amazing.

Bloody frightening when you're preparing recordings for him though! The Grieg recital has kept me from revising my Notturno (I felt it wasn't politic to continue while someone else was planning to submit it) but it's done wonders for me.



Richard
Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: PianoStudent88] #2139050
08/26/13 01:54 AM
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On reflection, I think you might be able to capitalise on this; playing it the Nokleberg way (as written, with the inconsistency) could help to sharpen your perception of interval. Enough repetition and something about the difference is likely to register even if it’s not precisely measured.

How to hear the difference.

Nokelberg, 56 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMhlEMqi7M4

You should be able to hear the semitone drop from G nat to F# in the bass. If you hover your cursor and keep clicking in one spot you can get quick repetitions.


Austbo, 50 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7QKlxL-cE&list=PLsqrYPvK4yP4GZXuywnz7mN1o3wnyyaGY&index=50

He’s hammering the RH here making the interval harder to hear so use another method to get at it. Together with the tied LH E#, his G# and the RH C#, you’re playing a C# major, fleetingly. You should be able to hear… it sounds quite sweet, sugary compared to the G nat.

The more I hear the two versions, the more I like the difference.

This is a challenging piece, to say the least!!

Last edited by dire tonic; 08/26/13 02:37 AM.
Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: dire tonic] #2139114
08/26/13 08:00 AM
08/26/13 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
On reflection, I think you might be able to capitalise on this; playing it the Nokleberg way (as written, with the inconsistency) could help to sharpen your perception of interval. Enough repetition and something about the difference is likely to register even if it’s not precisely measured.

How to hear the difference.

Nokelberg, 56 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMhlEMqi7M4

You should be able to hear the semitone drop from G nat to F# in the bass. If you hover your cursor and keep clicking in one spot you can get quick repetitions.


Austbo, 50 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7QKlxL-cE&list=PLsqrYPvK4yP4GZXuywnz7mN1o3wnyyaGY&index=50

He’s hammering the RH here making the interval harder to hear so use another method to get at it. Together with the tied LH E#, his G# and the RH C#, you’re playing a C# major, fleetingly. You should be able to hear… it sounds quite sweet, sugary compared to the G nat.

The more I hear the two versions, the more I like the difference.

This is a challenging piece, to say the least!!
A couple of things to consider:

1) This idea is actually repeated in octaves in the original key 2 more times after that, lending validity to the idea that it should be a G# in m. 13

2) Is the score Urtext? I'm only aware of 3 versions of the complete lyric pieces (and chances are this one wasn't published in a collection of other pieces like the more popular ones): Peters (Dover), Schirmer, and Henle. If anyone has the Henle and would like to let us know what they see, that would help tremendously, as I have found them to be more accurate than the other two

3) The difference in sound is minimal, IMO, so I'd go with whichever you prefer, or if you have no preference in sound, whatever feels best/easiest. My guess would be the G# considering you have to play the bottom F# with it.


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2139116
08/26/13 08:10 AM
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Thanks for all the replies.

Given that this is the only F#m version in the piece, I am (perhaps perversely) drawn to playing the anomalous note as written just on that basis: to mark it out as unique. I know, I know, a completely silly reason to choose a note.

I'll try listening to it both ways and see if I can hear if I like one way better than the other.

Or maybe I will pick one of the two notes at random and see if anyone can tell which I picked smile .

In all seriousness, thank you for the ideas. You've all given me several angles to think about.

Morodiene, I have the Peters edition.


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2139874
08/27/13 08:36 PM
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Can anyone help me to figure out what key "Peace of the Woods" Op. 71, No.4 is in? There are 5 sharps in the key signature: FCGDA are all sharp. but then on another site the piece was listed as being in F sharp major, which I thought had 6 sharps.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2139888
08/27/13 09:05 PM
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You're right that F# major has 6 sharps. Op. 71 No. 4 ends with a series of B major chords, and has 5 sharps in the key signature, so I would say it is in B major. The opening is a ii V I progression in B major: C#m F# B. This is interesting, to put a standard closing set of chords as the opening.

Can you provide a link to the site where it is listed as being in F# major?


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Valencia] #2139899
08/27/13 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Valencia
Can anyone help me to figure out what key "Peace of the Woods" Op. 71, No.4 is in? There are 5 sharps in the key signature: FCGDA are all sharp. but then on another site the piece was listed as being in F sharp major, which I thought had 6 sharps.

I only had a few minutes to look at it. It has F# to B chords in the beginning a few times and has a strong B major sound, and it ends with a B major chord. It seems to be in B major.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2139906
08/27/13 09:41 PM
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Thanks PianoStudent88 and keystring, smile You are right the piece is in B major. The F# major must just be an error in the listing of it on this site:

http://www.pianostreet.com/grieg-sheet-music/lyric-pieces/

I will have to get back to learning the musical analysis. This piece in particular was difficult for me because I did not understand the key changes throughout the piece which made it extremely challenging. haha...you will hear that at the recital. smile

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141182
08/30/13 03:32 AM
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Its gone very quiet hasn't it? That is, at least on this thread- though I suspect in the homes of our recital participants, its a different story - with (sometimes frantic) practising and recording attempts. I suppose some people are still on holiday too..

Rossy (yes Rossy - he's still alive and kicking) agreed to help me with 2 of my 3 recordings yesterday. So in the space of a few hours I had a few takes, then picked the best recordings out of 3. Not perfect, but its such a relief to have completed them - giving me more time learn the Nocturne more thoroughly.

But I suspect many of you are more interested in Rossy. My gut feeling is that he'll reappear on pianoworld. He's doing well, and very busy, though without internet access at present. If/when he does reappear I'm sure those of you who remember him will be very pleased to welcome him back. Things haven't been the same without him, have they?

Now I have to write something to go with my pieces, and I'll try to follow some advice I gave - 'imagine you're talking to a friend about your experience learning the piece'. That should help me dodge the dual temptations of trying to sound technically knowledgeable (which I would be doomed to fail at anyway)- because I don't want to try to impress, and explaining/excusing all the errors - because I have nothing to be ashamed of. For me, my challenge in writing my 2-3 paragraphs is to be open and show something of the human being learning the piece.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Dipsy] #2141186
08/30/13 04:05 AM
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I re-recorded "Gade", since I had one of the chords wrong. It still has mistakes in it, but they are slips and accidents, which are acceptable. Playing the wrong notes because I misread the music is not!

I still have to polish and record "Hjemve". I'm encouraged by the fact that I can play the section with so many sharps and accidentals without looking at my right hand - just feeling my way around the keyboard. When did that happen? It's a skill that just sort of happened without my realizing it.

Sam


Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Sam S] #2141224
08/30/13 06:50 AM
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Playing the wrong notes so people don`t notice is an art form. . . If they do notice, a grin which says "who spotted the deliberate mistake?" might be the best for damage limitation. . . better still if everyone (including piano player) is comfortably inebriated . . .


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Dipsy] #2141232
08/30/13 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dipsy

Now I have to write something to go with my pieces, and I'll try to follow some advice I gave - 'imagine you're talking to a friend about your experience learning the piece'. That should help me dodge the dual temptations of trying to sound technically knowledgeable (which I would be doomed to fail at anyway)- because I don't want to try to impress, and explaining/excusing all the errors - because I have nothing to be ashamed of. For me, my challenge in writing my 2-3 paragraphs is to be open and show something of the human being learning the piece.


The grinding tedium of trying to practise something that doesn't fall naturally under my fingers has stripped me of most of my humanity so I'll probably have to stick with pretending to be knowledgeable!

Please to hear Rossy's in good shape, looking forward to the return of his off-beat perspectives.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141261
08/30/13 08:13 AM
08/30/13 08:13 AM
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Rossy is missed, and you can tell him not coming back is not an option, or there's a riding crop in his near future!

My digital piano is packed up, so the only chance of practicing I'll get is possibly tonight at my parent's if they're not there when we arrive. Then we're on the road for the next two days, but when we arrive in FL on Sunday I'll be able to practice on my Petrof! Yay!! I'm hoping that will magically improve my playing, because there are all kinds of wrong notes happening right now that I'm not sure what to do about.

The main problem lies in the Halling. Despite really working the one section after the glissando, it's still hit or miss. If I make it through, I have to do it on the repeat, and so far twice in a row has yet to happen! And it's not like I can do a Plan B on this section, because if I'm off on one note, the rest of the entire section gets off. I can't spare a moment to look at my RH and correct it, because the LH is too busy being a spaz jumping octaves! This is one of those times I wish I had eyes like a gecko.

I thought about what may possibly be causing the problems in the RH, and it may be because the LH has to do these large leaps that when I play up to tempo, I lose my balance. At slow tempos, I'm pretty grounded and the RH keeps me stable, but I think when it's up to tempo then all of a sudden my RH starts lifting off the keys too much like the LH. It's just a thought and one I'll have to look at when I'm back at the piano again in a couple of days. I'm hoping a solution is soon in coming!

All of the other pieces are coming along fine. From the Early Years is ready to record, and once I can get that and Halling recorded, I'll focus on memorizing the other pieces.

I may forgo memorization on French Serenade, but we'll have to see.

Butterfly is just lovely, and while I won't bring it up to break-neck speed, I think it will sound suitably fluttery. Did you know that a group of butterflies is called a flutter?

The Brooklet I think is misnamed and sounds more like a winter wind or something. There are no pedal markings except at the very end ehre, but I may disobey that order. I am loving all these pieces smile


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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141279
08/30/13 08:55 AM
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I watched my son's teacher work with him on Debussy's prelude (from Suite pour le Piano). It has a nasty set of glissandi in the RH, with the left hand moving in downward octaves at the low end of the piano at precise points during each gliss. She just had him work the LH until the jump distances were completely in muscle memory so he could focus his attention on the interaction between the octave jumps and the timing of the glissando.

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Piano*Dad] #2141302
08/30/13 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
I watched my son's teacher work with him on Debussy's prelude (from Suite pour le Piano). It has a nasty set of glissandi in the RH, with the left hand moving in downward octaves at the low end of the piano at precise points during each gliss. She just had him work the LH until the jump distances were completely in muscle memory so he could focus his attention on the interaction between the octave jumps and the timing of the glissando.

Hmm, I wonder if I just not look at the LH and focus on the RH...I'll give it a try. Those octave leaps are pretty far, but maybe I know the feeling well enough to not have to look.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141319
08/30/13 10:30 AM
08/30/13 10:30 AM
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Williamsburg, VA
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Yes, and you could also muscle memorize the RH (know exactly where the gliss stops by sound, feel, and timing) while sneaking a look at the left hand as it moves. And of course, once you have done that both ways ... !

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141468
08/30/13 04:09 PM
08/30/13 04:09 PM
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Granada (Spain)
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Granada (Spain)
Glad to see Rossy Rostosky is doing well wink

Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141797
08/31/13 11:10 AM
08/31/13 11:10 AM
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Ireland (ex England)
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Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted by dire tonic
The grinding tedium of trying to practise something that doesn't fall naturally under my fingers has stripped me of most of my humanity so I'll probably have to stick with pretending to be knowledgeable!
Love it! I think I'll stand in this shadow. smile



Richard
Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141805
08/31/13 11:23 AM
08/31/13 11:23 AM
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Renjer Offline
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Testing out my new recording software - here is Vanished Days: (my first ever recital smile )

Comments?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vryibuz779fuwwi/Vanished%20Days.mp3?m

I don't really know how to upload files yet, so I am using my Dropbox user account. Youtube doesn't seem to like "audio only" files.

Last edited by Renjer; 08/31/13 11:28 AM.
Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky] #2141886
08/31/13 03:28 PM
08/31/13 03:28 PM
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New Orleans
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Anne H Offline
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Posts: 247
New Orleans
I am determined to record early this week, so hopefully I will be fully finished! I put my piece away for several weeks hoping to gain some more perspective on it, but after pulling it out again I'm not sure that has happened. I've made a deal with myself that I can't start working on my next recital piece for November until I get this recorded, so maybe that will help make things go faster.


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Works in Progress:
Rachmaninoff: Prelude Op 23 No 4

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