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Anyone here use Music Moves for Piano by Marilyn Lowe? I ordered 1 each of the student books - and honestly I've never seen anything like it!

I'd like to know more about the approach and how to use the ideas, practically, in the rather more conventional lessons I normally teach. Does anyone do this, and if so, how, or do you need to completely convert to the method?

OK, if no-one uses it I'll stop checking her for replies.

I didn't respond because I've never seen it or heard of it. Perhaps that's the case for everyone else too?

Since you ordered this, why not let us know what you think about it?

I'm very familiar with it and know the author. I'm just not sure what you're asking - the materials contain a lot of instructions. Maybe there's a more specific question here?

TLT, as you live in Scotland, you need to remember than when you post, we're still all in dream land. Your post went up at 4:18AM my time. Some folks on the East Coast may have been up, but most likely not rushing to their computers to see what was new; after all most of us have lives outside of "computer world."

That said, I'm totally unfamiliar with the series, so an intelligent, well formed review would be appreciated by all.

Thanks,

John

Thankyou for the responses. Please forgive my impatience, I posted a few days ago and was beginning to think I was being shunned. Stranger things happen.

Morodiene and John, I'm probably not up to a proper review as I really don't understand it yet. All I could say it is it unlike anything I have ever seen, as a beginner method. As a thorough ear-training method for someone who is already playing, it is probably excellent (as long as they're not British, there are just too many rude words in it! But I digress...)

The point as far as I can see is not to learn from notation, but by rote and 'audiation' - hearing and repeating patterns in the CD. Kreisler, please keep me right here as I may have misunderstood. I had not heard of Edwin Gordon until a few days ago, but since then I've been researching.

I can see a lot of value in the rhythm chants and games, but I need more input into how to actually implement them before I could actually use them with a student. There are a few youtube videos, but I'm not getting what I should actually do. I have the games books and student books 1-4, but not the pattern CD (which I seem to need).

Kreisler, you are right, the materials contain a lot of instructions, too many for me to deal with without seeing the bigger picture. Keyboard Games B is the only book devoid of bloopers that I could actually use with a child. So if there is anything you can tell me to orient me in what the principles are, how I can use the principles, then I would be grateful.

I should say I totally believe in learning from notation (for piano) and I teach up and down at the keyboard at the first lesson (Music Moves advises against the terms up and down, left and right and finger numbers).

OK, trying again.

What's macrobeat and what's microbeat and more importantly how does one teach this to a child?

The macrobeat is the large beat that's felt - in 4/4 time it would be a quarter note. In 6/8 time it would be a dotted quarter. It's often taught by marching or swaying, feeling the beat in your body.

The microbeat is the subdivision. In 4/4 and 6/8 it would be the eighth note. In a beat, there can be two or three microbeats (depending on whether or not the meter is simple or compound.) This is also taught through movement and chanting. Often, the student will move to the macrobeat and say the microbeats. Gordon uses the syllables Du-de (for simple meters) or Du-da-di (for compound meters.)

All this is very similar to Kodaly instruction. The "Ta" is the macrobeat and the "ti-ti" are the microbeats.

Gordon's (and Lowe's) system is based on how music is felt internally. It often sounds complicated when we put it into words, but in a classroom setting with children, it feels and comes very naturally to them, provided the sequence and instruction is clear.

Thanks for the reply, Kreisler.

Is this really similar to Kodaly? So far I thought they were very different. In Kodaly a crotchtet/quarter is ta. But in Gordon's/ Lowes system as far as I can hear, what you call it depends on when it comes. So I thought for Du da di, I was in 3/4 and if it came on beat 1, it was du, if it came on beat 2, it was da and if it came on beat 3 it was di. Not right?

I'm afraid I am very confused.

So how do you give clear instruction then? How exactly do you start this up?

The syllables are different, but the underlying musical feel is the same.

I'm afraid it's impossible to explain in an Internet post....you'd need to attend a training seminar or go through some of Gordon's or Lowe's books in detail. There's a teacher guide that explains it al very well and includes lesson plans.

If in the example of 3/4 time, the "macrobeat" is the quarter note, and the "microbeat" is the eighth note, then you can translate that into what you know about music, and how you yourself work with beats and pulses in music. (It's also my first time seeing these terms). So as a musician, you know that in a 3/4 waltz you have this "ONE two three" or "BOOM tish tish" (I'm hearing a drum set). You also know if there are smaller note values like eighth notes, they will not be as strong because they come in between, so that it's like
"ONE and two and three and" (my guess)

I'm thinking that it would be cool if there were an audio demonstration of the concepts existing in the book to help you get what they mean by these terms. Would Google on the "video" setting yield anything?

Kreisler, some questions:
- are "macrobeat" and "microbeat" standard terms, or unique to the writers of this book?
- if not standard, is there a standard term for the "microbeat"?

In CM, from Level 7 and up the beats are divided as below:

4/4 has 4 beats and 4 pulses
3/4 has 3 beats and 3 pulses
6/8 has 6 beats, but it is only 2 pulses
12/8 has 12 beats, and it is 4 pulses

So, I think in this case we can say that:
Macrobeat=pulses
Microbeat=beats

Anyone understand this?

OTOH, TLT, I wrote you a PM.

The terms are unique to the writers of the book. As far as I'm aware, there's no standard term, although the underlying concepts are all very familiar to those with training in elementary music education (Orff, Kodaly, etc...)

Kreisler, there don't seem to be any events this side of the Atlantic. Maybe the Teacher guide would help, maybe not, I don't know.

What I have done is taken what you said and checked again with the Pattern CD.

I don't think a note value = a syllable as in Kodaly.

Here's what happens (I'll say this in US English to make it more intelligible)

The measure in 4/4 time:

1/8 1/8 1/4, 1/8 1/8 1/4
Goes as:
Du-de du, du-de du

So, Du is when it's on the beat (macrobeat) and de is the offbeat in simple time.

It's not that Du is a 1/4. Du might be a 1/4, or it might be an 1/8.

Not so?

It all depends on how the pulse is felt.

It's best not to be pedantic and say that "Du" is necessarily a particular note. It can change. Apologies for my earlier explanation being a bit too simplistic.

Here's a video that shows an Gordon exercise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS4PxCTxdno

It begins with a neutral syllable (Ba) representing the macrobeat (large beat) which is felt in the body in a variety of ways.

Then, you hear "Du-da-di", showing that the rhythm is felt in threes - a triple meter. You can see the macrobeat remains in the feet, the microbeat is in the hands, and the rhythm is chanted on a neutral syllable and students are invited to repeat and improvise on it.

Obviously, the rhythms in the video could be notated in a lot of different ways. 3/8, 6/8, or 3/4. The macro and microbeats would have different note values depending on how it's notated, but the basic feel remains the same.

It should be said that one of the ideas behind Gordon's thought is that experience precedes notation. The goal is not to ascribe syllables to notated music, but rather to experience rhythm in the body and through chanting - to internalize it before seeing what it might look like on paper.

Thanks I was beginning to think I was going mad. As far as I can see, Gordon/Lowe is as different from Kodaly as Kodaly was from notation, and there may be something in it.

I've seen a couple of the rhythm exercises in groups. What I'm not sure about is how to start one up from scratch given my students haven't done this before. Probably the answer is just to do it!

6/8 has 3 accents at the 1st and 4th beat, while 3/4 has accents on every beat. Is that what you meant?

I actually like the name Macrobeat and Microbeat when it comes to 6/8. But it seem not very useful or even confusing with 3/4.

er, you mean 2 accents?



Funny you should mention that. What I've been contemplating is I don't see how the Gordon/Lowe method deals with 3/4 where each quarter is a macrobeat. I see how it works in a fast 3/4 where the dotted half is the macrobeat (basically, like 6/8).

But a real 3/4? Or worse yet, 9/8?