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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140504 08/29/13 12:09 AM
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It could have been a small sole proprietorship. What is if was? Would the root situation be any different? What if it had been your information and silencing the leak somehow presented a way to salvage your work?

Taking a stance that a large corporation is inherently evil and honoring a request to respect their property is bowing to the monster is absurd. This hints at a false dichotomy. It isn't us against them and therefore we should condone every perceived strike against them.

The point that the secret is out is moot.


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: o0Ampy0o] #2140536 08/29/13 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o
This sounds similar to justifying the spreading of gossip, hear-say and conjecture. With regards to the leaking of confidential information there is a stage where decency and respect comes into play for at least some people. Clearly for some people the concept of respect and doing the decent thing does not enter their minds. People like to ride the wave of mob mentality like sheep in a herd and reap the benefits it avails. Chiming in for open discussion of whatever has entered the public domain regardless of how it got there is common. It is a diversion to bully any opposition into submission. Submission means we get to know and use all that can be squeezed out of a system. You might believe sharing/spreading confidential information is different than using confidential property (i.e. cracked software) but it isn't when it is accessed through a form of unauthorized release. Just as gossip mongering is unsavory, so is treating leaked confidential information as though it is somehow the world's to do whatever it chooses. We can participate in the thievery or we can choose not to participate, if not help clean up the mess after a burglary.

This is a general "you" or "some people" and not necessarily voxpops as I do not believe the comment was intended to represent their personal point of view or belief as much as it was intended to provoke discussion of this thread's topic.


LOL. "Confidential" information that has been published in print and already in the hands of people who presumably don't have NDA's.

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140543 08/29/13 02:27 AM
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Yeah all that makes it okay. wink


Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: o0Ampy0o] #2140627 08/29/13 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o

This sounds similar to justifying the spreading of gossip, hear-say and conjecture.

None of the substantive information related to the "leak" is hearsay or gossip, it is fact.

But the point of this thread is not to bash the other site for withdrawing information, but rather to question the whole notion of censorship, and to ask at what point it becomes counterproductive. It's more of a philosophical debate, if you will. As I said before, it's the shutting down of this kind of discussion that worries me far more than trying to stop a leak.

Quote
With regards to the leaking of confidential information there is a stage where decency and respect comes into play for at least some people.

I agree with you. However, I don't feel I owe an inanimate entity, such as a musical instrument corporation, any particular respect. The respect due is between people - and it works both ways!

Quote
Chiming in for open discussion of whatever has entered the public domain regardless of how it got there is common. It is a diversion to bully any opposition into submission.

It can be, but is not necessarily for bullying purposes. That seems to be a generalization.

Quote
You might believe sharing/spreading confidential information is different than using confidential property (i.e. cracked software) but it isn't when it is accessed through a form of unauthorized release. Just as gossip mongering is unsavory, so is treating leaked confidential information as though it is somehow the world's to do whatever it chooses. We can participate in the thievery or we can choose not to participate, if not help clean up the mess after a burglary.

This seems to me to be a distortion of reality. There was no theft - nothing that can even be compared to a theft. There was, however, a mistake made. You may have noticed that no confidential (or even public domain) information has actually been shared by anyone contributing to this thread.

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...I do not believe the comment was intended to represent their personal point of view or belief as much as it was intended to provoke discussion of this thread's topic.

Exactly. I feel it's an important and worthwhile discussion to have.


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140636 08/29/13 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by voxpops
Quote
With regards to the leaking of confidential information there is a stage where decency and respect comes into play for at least some people.

I agree with you. However, I don't feel I owe an inanimate entity, such as a musical instrument corporation, any particular respect. The respect due is between people - and it works both ways!

While I don't buy into "corporations are people," the agreements and respect are between real people who are at these companies.

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: anotherscott] #2140637 08/29/13 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by voxpops
Quote
With regards to the leaking of confidential information there is a stage where decency and respect comes into play for at least some people.

I agree with you. However, I don't feel I owe an inanimate entity, such as a musical instrument corporation, any particular respect. The respect due is between people - and it works both ways!

While I don't buy into "corporations are people," the agreements and respect are between real people who are at these companies.

Of course they are, but when you wear the "corporate hat" your agenda becomes that of the corporation, not a personal one. I mean that the respect is due between individuals at a personal level. The corporation cares not a jot for you or your situation.


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140766 08/29/13 12:35 PM
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I am fed up with the cr*ppy corporate bull*h*t talk over here... Guys, either say what the DP is or stop with the Edward Snowden must die kind of talk. It's just plain unfair to say "I know a big secret but I am not gonna share it" and then concentrate on some totally redundant stuff laugh

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/29/13 12:37 PM.

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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: CyberGene] #2140787 08/29/13 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I am fed up with the cr*ppy corporate bull*h*t talk over here... Guys, either say what the DP is or stop with the Edward Snowden must die kind of talk. It's just plain unfair to say "I know a big secret but I am not gonna share it" and then concentrate on some totally redundant stuff laugh

The aim of the thread is really not about the DP, but I take your point, as it keeps veering back to that - I wonder why? wink

All I will say is that, for those frustrated by the lack of hard info being put out here, it is down to the need to show respect for certain individuals. Others, who have not been involved in these interactions, are not morally obliged to maintain silence, IMO.

This thread will die a natural death soon enough, and apologies to those who have felt frustrated, but I did think that forum protocol (not new DPs) was a topic that deserved an airing.



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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140802 08/29/13 01:30 PM
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To anyone that knows what DP is being talked about - share it. What's the worse that could happen? You'll also test big brother at this site smile


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140840 08/29/13 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by voxpops
...This thread will die a natural death soon enough, and apologies to those who have felt frustrated, but I did think that forum protocol (not new DPs) was a topic that deserved an airing.



Yup, but when the word is out , it's out and people are an impatient species who are just anxious to know everything about the latest and the greatest. I must admit I started googling right away, but didn't find my answer. Perhaps someone with knowledge about the new boards who isn't bound by corporate obligations can give a hint. Or just bluntly tell what this is all about.

By the way I understand and agree that a company can delete information on it's own site or forum that is released by accident and shouldn't be out in the open (yet). On public fora that are not in any way bound by NDA's from a certain company that is a different story.

Anyway, september is almost there. Since that is probably the month for new release(es) we'll know soon enough...

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: JFP] #2140843 08/29/13 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JFP
Yup, but when the word is out , it's out and people are an impatient species who are just anxious to know everything about the latest and the greatest.
Absolutely understood.

Quote
By the way I understand and agree that a company can delete information on it's own site or forum that is released by accident and shouldn't be out in the open (yet). On public fora that are not in any way bound by NDA's from a certain company that is a different story.
Agreed. And only due to an unfortunate coincidence it would be on here now.

Quote
Anyway, september is almost there. Since that is probably the month for new release(es) we'll know soon enough...
Yes you will.


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140844 08/29/13 03:09 PM
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I started googling right away too, by increasing the model number of a popular digital piano. Who would have guessed that they have actually decreased the model number wink

Last edited by CyberGene; 08/29/13 03:10 PM.

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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: CyberGene] #2140846 08/29/13 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I started googling right away too, by increasing the model number of a popular digital piano. Who would have guessed that they have actually decreased the model number wink

Who indeed? wink


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140863 08/29/13 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by voxpops
Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o

This sounds similar to justifying the spreading of gossip, hear-say and conjecture.

None of the substantive information related to the "leak" is hearsay or gossip, it is fact.

On that point, I wasn't suggesting this disclosed information was gossip or hearsay. I was saying that your defense was similar to justifying the spread of gossip and hear-say.

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140865 08/29/13 04:06 PM
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You guys are such a tease ;-) Define "popular" ; could still be any model or brand. I pass...

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: o0Ampy0o] #2140871 08/29/13 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted by voxpops
Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o

This sounds similar to justifying the spreading of gossip, hear-say and conjecture.

None of the substantive information related to the "leak" is hearsay or gossip, it is fact.

On that point, I wasn't suggesting this disclosed information was gossip or hearsay. I was saying that your defense was similar to justifying the spread of gossip and hear-say.

My "defense" as you call it was to suggest that disseminating published factual information is legitimate. I stand by that, and do not see how that is justification for the spreading of gossip or hearsay.

Last edited by voxpops; 08/29/13 04:53 PM.

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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140873 08/29/13 04:30 PM
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I would like to thank everyone for participating in this thread. Whether you have agreed with me or not, all the input has served as a reaffirmation of the need for places where we can talk freely without fear of being shut down because others are concerned that corporate or business interests are not being served. At the same time, I do not condemn anyone with such extramural interests for protecting their turf, but it does suggest a certain conflict of interests around the maintenance of free and open discussion: the purpose of a forum.



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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140876 08/29/13 04:32 PM
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This whole thing sounds like a fish story. To summarize:

Persons unknown have censored information unknown from forum unknown. Pressed for details, the OP declines, citing the need to protect persons unknown.

It sounds quite dubious.

Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: MacMacMac] #2140879 08/29/13 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This whole thing sounds like a fish story. To summarize:

Persons unknown have censored information unknown from forum unknown. Pressed for details, the OP declines, citing the need to protect persons unknown.

It sounds quite dubious.

Lol! Yes it does sound very dubious when you put it like that! wink


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Re: OT: How much censorship is legitimate in a forum? [Re: voxpops] #2140920 08/29/13 06:24 PM
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Could someone post at least the sum of the 3 digits in the model number? (If it is 3). Also is the second letter of the manufacturer the same as the last letter?

4 Years ago pictures and videos of the PS3 slim were leaked. Some people actually thought Sony planted them to drive interest and hype. Likely someone found a prototype and posted the info.

Sony did not try to stop this. It actually helped sales.

I think censorship is okay when it is offensive, threatening etc. but forums are very useful in getting peoples opinions since we all like and dislike different things.



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