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#2135560 - 08/19/13 04:29 PM datuner reading  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
trex101 Offline
Junior Member
trex101  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Melbourne
Hi,

I just bought a baby grand(Hailun 151) for my wife 3 week ago and out of curiosity i downloaded an Android apps "Datuner" and test it on all the note.

[Linked Image]

Most of the lower notes are pretty ok, hit within +-5c
From middle to high octave onwards, most notes hit +10c

The question is, are these reading any useful? I know that acoustic piano notes are not suppose to be as exact as electronic notes.

[Linked Image]


Hailun 151
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#2135582 - 08/19/13 05:12 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Silverwood Pianos  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada


The piano is out of tune which is to be expected following delivery.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#2135587 - 08/19/13 05:21 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Jul 2013
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trex101 Offline
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trex101  Offline
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Melbourne
Should the middle and high note be within the datuner "green band"? Or just +-5c like the lower note to be in tune?


Hailun 151
#2135610 - 08/19/13 06:24 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Apr 2010
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kpembrook Offline
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kpembrook  Offline
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Michigan
Originally Posted by trex101
Should the middle and high note be within the datuner "green band"? Or just +-5c like the lower note to be in tune?


The green line is a generic inharmonicity curve that is typical of pianos. The piano can be successfully tuned with a different curve and in real life the notes will not fall exactly on anybody's curve.

I encourage listening to using a device to determine out-of-tuneness.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
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#2135616 - 08/19/13 06:42 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
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trex101 Offline
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trex101  Offline
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Melbourne
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


Hailun 151
#2135688 - 08/19/13 09:59 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Oct 2006
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David Jenson Offline
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David Jenson  Offline
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Posts: 2,540
Strong, Maine
New pianos are inherently unstable. Get it tuned. Get a base-line from that tuning on the telephone app., then go from there. The advice to learn to hear if the piano is out of tune is the best course. I've never heard of that app., and there's no possible way to know if it's accurate at all. (My guess is that it isn't.)


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#2135694 - 08/19/13 10:21 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
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trex101 Offline
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trex101  Offline
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Melbourne
Thank you for the advice, will record down all the frequency once the tuner came for the 1st tune next mth. That would form a baseline for me.


Hailun 151
#2135700 - 08/19/13 10:33 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 933
phacke Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014
phacke  Offline

Gold Supporter until November 11 2014


Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 933
CO, USA
Originally Posted by trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


That is indeed way out of the generally recommended range for relative humidity. If you got a user booklet with the piano, or if you can otherwise get one, please check the recommended range for that instrument.

Best wishes-


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
#2135713 - 08/19/13 11:31 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Apr 2010
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kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,727
Michigan
Originally Posted by trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


And how do you know that your room humidity is that level -- from a device as accurate as your phone tuner? Unless you are measuring humidity with a real hygrometer such as is used by HVAC folk, you don't really know . . .


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2135715 - 08/19/13 11:42 PM Re: datuner reading [Re: kpembrook]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
trex101 Offline
Junior Member
trex101  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Melbourne
Originally Posted by kpembrook
Originally Posted by trex101
Oic,

I'm just wondering is it due to my room humidity(range from 55-80%) that seem to stretch all my note from middle to high octave : pitch up +10c


And how do you know that your room humidity is that level -- from a device as accurate as your phone tuner? Unless you are measuring humidity with a real hygrometer such as is used by HVAC folk, you don't really know . . .


I got a hygrometer and record the reading from time to time, seem pretty accurate compare to Australia Bureau of Meteorology reading. It's winter over here now and humidity are pretty high compare to the rest of the year.


Hailun 151
#2135727 - 08/20/13 12:18 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,727
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,727
Michigan
Originally Posted by trex101

I got a hygrometer and record the reading from time to time, seem pretty accurate compare to Australia Bureau of Meteorology reading. It's winter over here now and humidity are pretty high compare to the rest of the year.


Meaning that you have put it outside and checked the Met. Bureau report?

Have you done this over the span of a year?

I'm not saying yours isn't accurate -- just being extremely skeptical from having seen identical hygrometers giving radically different readings in the same room and others that simply don't respond at all to changes. Every now and then a cheap hygrometer actually is dead-on, so I'm not saying it can't happen. Some don't even read below 20% -- they just go blank. You might check with a psychrometer setup. Either get a sling psychrometer or make a stationary one with two thermometers. You can get the differential charts online to interpret R.H.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2135739 - 08/20/13 12:55 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Jul 2013
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trex101 Offline
Junior Member
trex101  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Melbourne
My hygrometer are place just beside my piano. Reading from inside and outside should be similar i suppose, not saying my hygrometer are 100% accurate but should be around the ballpark figure.


Hailun 151
#2135783 - 08/20/13 04:53 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: trex101]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Mark R.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by trex101
Reading from inside and outside should be similar i suppose


Not at all. That's one of the critical points. In winter, the inside of a home is typically much warmer than the outside, which results in a significantly lower relative humidity inside, i.e. higher RH outside. For example, the same moisture content that gives 70% RH at 10°C only gives 40% RH at 20°C.

@ Keith:
Why would a homeowner want to read RH below 20%? If it's that low, its critically low for a piano anyway.


Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
#2135887 - 08/20/13 09:30 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: Mark R.]  
Joined: Apr 2010
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kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,727
Michigan
Originally Posted by Mark R.
@ Keith:
Why would a homeowner want to read RH below 20%? If it's that low, its critically low for a piano anyway.


It's just a matter of putting a number on how horribly dry it gets here in the Upper Midwest during winter. We have one of the worst environments in the world for pianos. In the summer, it's possible for ambient indoor humidity to reach 80% and in the winter I have measured 12%. It's the cold outdoor temps which might be at a somewhat reasonable 36% but when you raise that zero-degree-F 36% RH air to 70 deg. F indoors, the R.H. plummets. So, we can have a R.H. swing of 60-70% every 6 months.

Wanna come look at our soundboards? shocked (Never mind sticky key service calls, etc.)

It's easy to understand why most of us techs here are Dampp Chaser converts. The difference between protected and unprotected pianos can be dramatic.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2135927 - 08/20/13 10:20 AM Re: datuner reading [Re: kpembrook]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Mark R.  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by kpembrook
So, we can have a R.H. swing of 60-70% every 6 months.


Good grief! (That being said, the OP is in Melbourne, Australia, which has a "temperate" climate, but is also known for its changeable weather.)

Originally Posted by kpembrook
Wanna come look at our soundboards?


Umm, I think not. Methinks I'll cry. I've seen what swings from 70% to 30% can do already.


Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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