Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Henry Miller conservatory grand

I recently played a Henry Miller Conservatory Grand piano (5'4, supposedly made in the Sejung factory), which sounded very nice. Does anybody have more information on these pianos.
Also, does anybody have better recommendations for a grand piano < $8000 ?

Only that any resemblence this piano may have to a Henry F Miller stops at the front of the keycover decal.

You might consider used grand pianos that fall within your budget. You'll probably end up with a much better piano.

Del

Del

I don't care too much for the name, I was just wondering if anyone knows more about the quality of this piano.

I used to sell them and for the money they are decent pianos. When I worked for the music store we had a piano disc on one of them that played non stop all day and it did great! There were only small problems with action friction which can easily be overcome by any decent tech. The ones that I sold had hand many features that more expensive pianos had such as hand wound strings, agraffs, some abs action parts. Out of any of the pianos in it's price I would say it was one of the better ones I played and sold. A TON better than the Bergmann by Young Chang! If you are interested in a nice piece of furnature that happens to play decently, I would so go for it. Of course anyone will tell you that you can spend the same money and get a good Kawai or Yamaha upright that will out perform it in every way, but that's your decision. As far as the price I would say you could get it for closer to 6k or so. Good luck.


BC

I actually tested a whole bunch of uprights, but they just didn't be as clear as a grand piano. Why do so many people say, that a good upright will sound better than a 5'4 grand piano?

Actually, my next door neighbor bought a little Henry Miller grand a couple of months ago, and had me over to work on it. A tuning, a little regulation, and a little voicing, nothing too extensive, and I thought it was a fine little piano, better than I would have thought.

The instrument she was replacing was pretty interesting. It was an old PS Wick reed organ in an upright piano case. You pumped the pedals, which were only a little bigger than most piano pedals, and it played. If I had room for it, I might have picked it up from her.

Amazing!

The OK or good drives out the better.

Del said, “Only that any resemblence this piano may have to a Henry F Miller stops at the front of the keycover decal.” That’s all that needs to be said. How few apparently are aware that Henry F. Miller was one of the great pioneer American piano designers. His 6 and 7 foot grands from 1885 to 1900, if you can find one, are worth rebuilding with the best stuff on earth you can put into them. Even small Henry F. Miller pianos, consoles, sound better than most others, with a rich warm sound.

Do they make them like this anymore? What’s the purpose in calling something a “conservatory grand” that isn’t even 6 feet in length? Who is fooling who?

Fooling the person who doesn’t want to spend more than what one of these cheap short Asian grands costs.

I wish that somebody would untie the Chinese currency and the US dollar. Let them float. Their currency goes up, ours goes down. Their pianos cost more and fewer get sold here. Meanwhile we get to sell them cheaper rice.

Yeah I know, China is the future. Why don’t they put their own names on them then with Chinese characters too? Would we care? Someone in southern California or New Jersey just wants a piano shaped juke box anyway. Might as well come from China, right?

Meanwhile there are real Henry F. Millers out there here and there. A few are lucky enough to get restored correctly and beautifully.

Henry F. Miller, just a name. There are dozens more. Sort of a shame to see them used on instruments that aren’t somehow worthy of them.

Give me a good honest Kung Po piano with real Tzi Pei Shang action, all in Chinese characters so no westerner can read it.

I don't care if it says Henry Miller, Henry Weinhard or Confuzius on the piano. In fact, I would also prefer a 'normal' or 'original' name. What I care about is the quality of the instrument. I don't intend to compare the chinese ones to the original Henry Miller pianos, which are quality and price wise in a different class.
I liked how they played and sounded, but I don't know much about quality or longetivity of these instruments.
Also, if someone knows better new or used grand pianos in that price range, please let me know. What about the upcoming Breitmann? They haven't shipped them to my area yet.

Henry F. Miller isn't made by Sejung, it's a product by Pearl River. Just to clarify.

To concur, last time I heard they were also made by Pearl River, but the Chinese market changes so fast nowadays...

Compare the piano against a Nordiska (Chinese made by Dongbei)165(5'5'), and a 185(6'1"). I'd also try the Bergmann line (specifically the 5'9") from Young Chang, as I understand they've improved a lot in the last year.

Also compare the piano against any small Korean piano (Samick, Young Chang) around 5'1' or a small Kawai (about 9kish), and see what you think.

Chinese pianos can be a bit buggier than Koreans or Japanese, although they are much better than just a few years ago. Buy from a dealer who stands behind his product.

Disclaimer: I own a Chinese piano. Problems=0.

The dealer told me, that the normal henry miller pianos are made by Pearl River, but the conservatory series is made by Sejung, in order to get a better quality. In how far he is telling the truth, I don't know. Is there a way to check on the piano itself, where it's made?
What about a 30 year old 'gray' Yamaha G2 in comparison?

Personally, and speaking for myself only, I'd rather have new Chinese - if I liked the piano, and dealer - than a 30 year old Yamaha G.

Make that a 15 year old Kawai, or Yamaha, and it would be a much tougher choice.

ok, I got clarification from Sejung, that a special Henry Miller series is made by them, and that they're virtually the same as Vivace, Hobard Cable or Falcone.
Since I saw someone posting about Breitmann pianos, I got very curious. I compared both their specs, but don't know which is better. Can someone comment on these please?

Breitmann:
Technical Specifications*
Size: 5'2
Plate: cast iron
Soundboard: laminated spruce
Pin Block: multi-laminate 18 ply German made Delignit
Strings: drawn German steel, copper wound on steel in bass
Tuning Pins: nickel plated
Action: all wood hornbeam or maple, made to German specifications
Hammers: long fiber wool, reinforced
Keys: laminated spruce/pine fully counter balanced with acrylic tops and sharps
Pedals: 3 with full sostenuto (grand only)
Hardware: solid brass
Finish: high polish polyester in ebony, mahogany, walnut or white
Warranty: full 10 year limited


Sujeng:
Size: 5'4
Solid Spruce Soundboard, Vacuum Processed Cast Plate
Hard Maple Treble Bridge
Pin Block of 17-Ply Hard Maple
Hard Maple and Birch Laminated Rim
Hard Maple Action Parts, Aluminum Action Rail with 5 Die-Cast Brackets
High Density Virgin Wool Hammers T-Pinned and Reinforced

apparently the Sejung has an option for Renner action also.

Has anyone here played both Breitmann and Sejung and compared?

oh, and the Henry Miller has duplex scale

These lists of specifications are both meaningless and misleading. I can make up a beautiful list of impressive sounding specifications for the most miserable excuse of a piano being built today. I can also make that miserable excuse of a piano sound and play pretty good for the amount of time it takes to sell it and get it delivered to your home. Nor will I have to worry overly much about backing up that impressive sounding decades-long warranty! Just check it carefully to see what it really covers and what it really means. (You'll be better off ignoring it and buying from a dealer who will personally back up the product. And then pray they stay in business!)

Getting beyond the specifications -- Just what does “Action: all wood hornbeam or maple, made to German specifications” really mean? Which specifications? Manufacturing? I doubt it. More likely it’s a loose copy of the current Renner action design made in China. -- the things I’d look for are more fundamental:
-- Did they bother drying out the wood before the glued up the rim and belly?
-- Did they store the pianos outside in the rain between operations?
-- Was the glue that supposedly holds the thing together of reasonable quality? Does anyone watch how long applied glue is allowed to sit before the parts are joined? Does anybody know why it's important? Does anybody care?
-- How did they crown the soundboard. For that, did they bother to crown the soundboard? Does anybody know what crown is or what it's for?
-- Did anybody do any kind of actual design and/or engineering work on this thing or did they simply copy some existing design?
-- Does anybody in the factory have even the slightest clue about maintaining quality control? Do the line workers actually have drawings or templates or gages to work from? Or do they just kind of make these up as they go along?

No, the things that go into making a piano that will last and give you good performance cannot be found in a list of specifications drawn up by a marketing department half a days air time removed from the factory. Sadly, we are moving into the age of the disposable piano. Buy it cheap, use it a few years and, when it can no longer be economically fixed, toss it out.

Del

Del posted:
At the Pearl River site http://www.pearlriverpiano.com/eprp/aboutus.html# there are documents showing that the factory is ISO 9001 certified. This should mean that the factory has implemented a documented repeatable manufacturing process. With a repeatable process it becomes possible to implement process improvements and measure their effectiveness. I suspect that the Chinese manufacturers will continue to show improvement and will eventually build some extremely high quality pianos while continuing to build pianos for each price range. I think it would be unreasonable to expect the same quality and performance from a $4,000 piano as from a $40,000 piano. I think it is reasonable to expect the $4,000 piano to be made well and perform well, within the limitations set by the price range.

We've been in that age for quite a while. The difference is that some of the Chinese grands are a lot better than anything Brambach ever made.

Roslau strings, Delginit pinblock, hardwood rim, wetcast plate, Abel hammers, solid spruce soundboard bigger than a Kawai RX-1. A lot of the specs are similar to the aforementioned KAwai.

All on a Nordiska 165, for a little more than half the price of the Kawai.

The equal of the Kawai?

Nope. Don't get caught up in the spec wars. Much of the emphasis on specs is meaningless.

Buy a piano for what it is, and what you expect it to do.

I disagree. I've rebuilt a few Brambachs. And I've been inside a few Chinese piano factories. Some Chinese piano manufacturers are certainly improving but most have some ways to go.

Del