Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
136 registered members (anamnesis, anotherscott, Alex_, Anil Kalagatla, Andy001, 36251, 33 invisible), 1,463 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
#2133706 - 08/16/13 04:20 AM Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
Sundew Offline
Full Member
Sundew  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
England
I came across this free online course the other day. I've searched the forums and there are posts in Pianist Corner related to it and a thread in non-classical re the Improvisation course, but none popped up for beginners so I thought I would repeat it here. Performance wise they are beyond me, I'm just about to start Clementi Sonatinas, but I've signed up.

https://www.coursera.org/course/beethovensonatas




(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2133707 - 08/16/13 04:29 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Sam S Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Georgia, USA
I signed up too, some time ago. Hey, it's free!

Sam

#2133711 - 08/16/13 04:53 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member
Jean-Luc  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 322
France
Thank you for the pointer smile


- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc
#2133736 - 08/16/13 06:54 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
I signed up too weeks ago!


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2133738 - 08/16/13 06:57 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,637
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
sinophilia  Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,637
Italy
I signed up too! Looking forward to it.


Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
http://soundcloud.com/sinophilia
[Linked Image]
#2133740 - 08/16/13 06:59 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Yup, I signed up a few weeks back too. Should be interesting!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2133850 - 08/16/13 12:21 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 168
carlos88 Offline
Full Member
carlos88  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 168
Colorado
There's also another upcoming Coursera course, coming up in January,

Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp

which I'm looking forward to in addition to the Beethoven course.


I'd rather play badly than not at all...
#2133873 - 08/16/13 01:02 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
dynamobt Online content
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
NH
How do these work exactly? Are the lectures an audio file that is available online at a certain date? Can you listen to them at any time? Or do you have to tune in at a very specific time for each lecture and if you miss it too bad for you?

I'm just starting work on Beethoven so would really like to take this. I just need to know more about it.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2133915 - 08/16/13 02:40 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
dynamobt, this page of Coursera Help may answer your questions. The answer to "Do I need to watch the lectures live?" is:
Quote
No! All video lectures for your course will be pre-recorded, and you can watch them at your convenience. ​However, our classes tend to be structured with regular deadlines, so you should expect to watch the lectures and do the homeworks on a regular basis.

Your instructor will usually release videos on a weekly basis (for example, all videos for the coming week might be released on the course site each Sunday). Most of our courses have about 2 hours of video lectures per week, broken into 8-15 minute chunks. You can access videos for the current week, and all past weeks, by clicking the "Videos" link the left-hand navigation bar on any of your course pages.


Originally Posted by dynamobt
I'm just starting work on Beethoven so would really like to take this.

I think they're worthwhile for everyone as general music education, whether one is starting to play Beethoven or not.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2133929 - 08/16/13 03:03 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
dynamobt Online content
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
NH
I didn't see that "help" link at the bottom of the page. Now that I've gone looking, I see answers to lots of questions. Signed up and am ready to go!! Thanks for sharing the link to these courses!


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2133979 - 08/16/13 05:03 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: carlos88]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Originally Posted by carlos88
There's also another upcoming Coursera course, coming up in January,

Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition

https://www.coursera.org/course/classicalcomp

which I'm looking forward to in addition to the Beethoven course.


Hmmmm very interesting...now I am wondering do you have to be able to sight read to do this course or not?


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2135183 - 08/19/13 04:05 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
Sundew Offline
Full Member
Sundew  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
England
It's been years since I took any formal course of education so I felt a bit of trepidation when I hit the join button. I find writing quite difficult, my brain seems to 'freeze', words escape me and I am certainly slower in grasping new concepts. {I think it's age!}. However, if I can't manage it or get on with it I like that I can fade away with no questions asked. I've enrolled on another non-music related course that begins this week.

Edward it's seems a little ambiguous but, based on the statment that having studied an instrument is not a requirement, I think not. smile

Hope to see those who have joined in the course forum.



#2135287 - 08/19/13 09:36 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Sundew, I believe EdwardianPiano was asking about the Composition course, not the Beethoven Sonatas course. I agree that the Sonatas course probably does not expect you to know how to read music. The Composition course is a different story.

The Composition course expects the student to have had a basic introduction to music theory: to be familiar with keys, intervals, chords, and Roman numeral analysis. The preview video for the course shows notation. The question is perhaps how much this can be worked around, or how much facility EdwardianPiano can gain with these concepts and skills in advance, or is willing to learn on the fly during the course.

EdwardianPiano, since the course is free and there's no obligation, you might like to sign up and give it a try.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2135425 - 08/19/13 12:34 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
Sundew Offline
Full Member
Sundew  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 315
England
Apologies for the mistake , thanks for pointing it out smile

#2135847 - 08/20/13 08:28 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 168
carlos88 Offline
Full Member
carlos88  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 168
Colorado
I received more details about the Beethoven course via email yesterday:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas begins on Tuesday, September 3. You will receive an e-mail that day with a link to the class on Coursera.org, where you will be able to watch the first week's lecture videos (about one hour, total) and participate in forum discussions.

The compositions that you will explore with instructor Jonathan Biss include:
• Sonata No. 4 in E-flat major, Op. 7
• Sonata No. 5 in C minor, Op. 10, No. 1
• Sonata No. 12 in A-flat major, Op. 26
• Sonata No. 13 in E-flat major, Op. 27, No. 1 (“Sonata quasi una fantasia”)
• Sonata No. 14 in C-sharp minor, Op. 27, No. 2 (“Moonlight”)
• Sonata No. 15 in D major, Op. 28 (“Pastoral”)
• Sonata No. 24 in F-sharp major, Op. 78
• Sonata No. 26 in E-flat major, Op. 81a (“Les adieux”)
• Sonata No. 30 in E major, Op. 109
• Fantasy, Op. 77

The course will include assignments on weeks two, four, and five. These are peer-graded, providing you an opportunity to learn even more as you evaluate each other's work.



I'd rather play badly than not at all...
#2137719 - 08/23/13 11:44 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88

The Composition course expects the student to have had a basic introduction to music theory: to be familiar with keys, intervals, chords, and Roman numeral analysis. The preview video for the course shows notation. The question is perhaps how much this can be worked around, or how much facility EdwardianPiano can gain with these concepts and skills in advance, or is willing to learn on the fly during the course.

EdwardianPiano, since the course is free and there's no obligation, you might like to sign up and give it a try.


Well I know some of the above on a beginner's level- but as it is free and doesn't start til January and I plan to start the pianoforall course in September I hopefully will be at a level to manage it.


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2137722 - 08/23/13 11:48 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Beethoven is not long off! Are you all listening to the sonatas already? I have a Barenboim boxed set of the sonatas. I will be listening to the sonatas a lot to be familiar with them.


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2137751 - 08/23/13 12:37 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: EdwardianPiano]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
synergy543 Offline
Full Member
synergy543  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by EdwardianPiano
Beethoven is not long off! Are you all listening to the sonatas already? I have a Barenboim boxed set of the sonatas. I will be listening to the sonatas a lot to be familiar with them.

Barenboim's Beethoven Sonata performances my favorite, he's an exceptional musician and performer. Also, don't miss the Master Classes with Barenboim and Jonathan Bliss. This might give an insight into where the class may be headed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeJoyCn6cGc


#2137772 - 08/23/13 01:09 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I've started listening to all the sonatas.

I'm beginning with a selection of sonatas recorded on fortepiano by Paul Komen. He hasn't recorded all of them, but I'm hopeful that more will be forthcoming.

I'm waiting for a complete set recorded on piano by Jean-Bernard Pommier to arrive, and then I'll listen to those. I'm interested to hear the differences between fortepiano and piano.

I could see myself becoming an obsessive collector of Beethoven sonata sets.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2137787 - 08/23/13 01:32 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals


#2137803 - 08/23/13 01:54 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,637
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
sinophilia  Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,637
Italy
I'm listening to Barenboim too!


Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
http://soundcloud.com/sinophilia
[Linked Image]
#2137878 - 08/23/13 04:21 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I've started a new thread for the Coursera course Write Like Mozart: An Introduction to Classical Music Composition.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2137884 - 08/23/13 04:38 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Originally Posted by Valencia
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals



Oh thanks for that! I work funny shifts and at the mo never know from one day to the next when or where I'll be working or going ( or not...) so when I can make a start listening to these at the weekend.


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2137887 - 08/23/13 04:40 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: sinophilia]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Originally Posted by sinophilia
I'm listening to Barenboim too!


I have a boxed set my friend gave me as a gift- the complete sonatas- haven't even heard them all yet! The Master wrote a LOT of sonatas.


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2137957 - 08/23/13 07:32 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Pianolover13 Offline
Junior Member
Pianolover13  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8
Just signed up for this course as well and I am so excited! I took a music appreciation course in college and it really is what made me get back into classical music and I'm hoping this class has a similar effect. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention!

#2137974 - 08/23/13 08:36 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
dynamobt Online content
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
NH
I'd better start listening.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2138391 - 08/24/13 03:19 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
synergy543 Offline
Full Member
synergy543  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by Valencia
I just found this too and started listening to the lectures on the Sonatas that will be covered in the course:

http://www.wigmore-hall.org.uk/schiffbeethovenlecturerecitals


Valencia, thank you for posting this link. These Andras Schiff lectures are an absolutely amazing resource and a great addition for those taking the Curtis Institute course. I encourage everyone to give these a listen. If you only listen to one, try No.12 Op.26 in Ab (No.14 in Schiff's numbering) as Schiff offers incredible insight that really shed new light on this Sonata for me. It will be very interesting to compare Jonathan Biss's interpretation.

Much appreciated,

Greg

Last edited by synergy543; 08/24/13 04:11 PM.
#2138395 - 08/24/13 03:30 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: synergy543]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
EdwardianPiano and Greg, glad the link is helpful. smile

I'm a little confused about the numbering on that site. For example it lists the Moonlight Sonata as 16, whereas in this book I have it's listed as 14.

When you say listen to 12, do you mean the one in G major, Op.14 no.2?

#2138407 - 08/24/13 04:01 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
synergy543 Offline
Full Member
synergy543  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by Valencia
EdwardianPiano and Greg, glad the link is helpful. smile

I'm a little confused about the numbering on that site. For example it lists the Moonlight Sonata as 16, whereas in this book I have it's listed as 14.

When you say listen to 12, do you mean the one in G major, Op.14 no.2?

Yes, I noticed that numbering conflict but didn't pay much attention. If anyone knows why the numbers are different maybe they could explain.

I went by the Opus number and should have mentioned that. I was referring to Schiff's No.14 (hmm? go figure....which in the Jonathan Biss course is No.12...hmm) - Op.26 in Ab ("The Funeral March") with its unconventional variation form. Schiff's comments and analysis (despite his somewhat subdued nature) are extremely interesting (at least to me). The best 30 minutes I've spent in a while.

I think Jonathan Biss's numbers are correct and Schiff's numbering is based on the recordings and not the Sonatas as he's broken up some of the lectures. That's the best I can figure. Here is the numbering system from IMSLP (which is the same as Jonathan Biss's and others I've seen).


Also, the chronological order is by Sonata number rather than by Opus (according to Schiff).

Oh, here are the [color=blue]Schiff Lectures listed by Sonata[/color]

Last edited by synergy543; 08/24/13 07:38 PM.
#2138732 - 08/25/13 10:39 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: synergy543]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Thanks for this! I will listen to the Op. 26 lecture today. I have a book of the first half of the sonatas, and I notice that it doesn't have Op. 49 1 and 2 in it. In Schiff's list, Op. 49 1 and 2 are numbered sonata 9 and 10 respectively. On the "accessible Beethoven Sonata mvts' thread, Sam S mentioned that there were Beethoven's earliest sonatas and he didn't want them published and used them to teach his students. So perhaps that is why they are not on other people's lists of the Sonatas?


#2138921 - 08/25/13 05:13 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Valencia]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Sam S Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Valencia
Thanks for this! I will listen to the Op. 26 lecture today. I have a book of the first half of the sonatas, and I notice that it doesn't have Op. 49 1 and 2 in it. In Schiff's list, Op. 49 1 and 2 are numbered sonata 9 and 10 respectively. On the "accessible Beethoven Sonata mvts' thread, Sam S mentioned that there were Beethoven's earliest sonatas and he didn't want them published and used them to teach his students. So perhaps that is why they are not on other people's lists of the Sonatas?



There's some confusion about the chronological order of the opus 49 sonatas - I think that's the problem. According to the opus number, they don't seem to "fit" with the other sonatas, since they are "easy". They were probably composed much earlier than is indicated by the opus number.

Sam

#2139292 - 08/26/13 02:53 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sam S]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
tedrp Offline
Full Member
tedrp  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 47
Schiff addresses the 32 Beethoven sonatas in order of composition rather than in order of publication. His lecture numbers coincide with the standard numbering of the sonatas up to Sonata Number 8 (Opus 13 'Pathetique'). He then covers the Opus 49 Sonatas which have traditional numbers of No. 19 and No. 20 because he states that they were composed after Opus 13 but before Opus 14. After covering the two Opus 49 works, he continues with Sonata Number 9 (Opus 14 No. 1) so the lecture numbers no longer coincide with the traditional sonata numbers.

He also devotes two lectures to Sonata Number 29 (Opus 106 'Hammerklavier") so the total number of lectures is 33 rather than 32.

#2139631 - 08/27/13 10:36 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 432
Palmpirate Online content
Full Member
Palmpirate  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 432
B.C.Canada
Love all the info and signed up for Beethoven and for Mozart. It's going to be great. How will we recognize each other there? I didn't see a place to call myself other than my registered name. Perhaps that come later.
Also - there is mention of several different threads about this topic. I've put a 'watch this topic' for this one.

Barenboim is one of my favorites!

Numbering and opus references are often confusing, not just with Beethoven's sonatas. I rely on the opus to be sure .


[Linked Image]

#2144004 - 09/04/13 10:56 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Palmpirate]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Sam S Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Georgia, USA
Course went live this week. 31,000 students!?!

Listened to the first "lecture". One interesting tidbit - only one of Beethoven's piano sonatas was actually performed in his lifetime - I think he said op 110 but I may be wrong. It wasn't until Liszt that pianists gave recitals I guess.

He mentioned that Bach was a big influence on Beethoven, but what Bach music did Beethoven actually know or listen to? I thought that most of Bach's music had to wait until Mendelssohn came along to be re-discovered. I seem to recall that Beethoven was exposed to the WTC from his teacher Neefe.

Sam

#2144013 - 09/04/13 11:26 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,546
zrtf90 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
zrtf90  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,546
Ireland (ex England)
Yes, Neefe, Court organist at Bonn, trained him from 1781 chiefly using the WTC. Also taught him organ, and composition. Bach's work was well known but not publically performed.





Richard
#2144150 - 09/04/13 04:08 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sam S]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
The best lecture I've sat through in a long time. I have to give Haydn more respect. I never knew the constraint he was under for his compositions. This is a tremendous public service by Jonathan Biss by offering his time for this free course.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
#2144170 - 09/04/13 04:50 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Sam S Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,410
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by 4evrBeginR
This is a tremendous public service by Jonathan Biss by offering his time for this free course.


Well, even if Coursera isn't paying him (are we sure about that?), he is potentially getting a lot out of this course. He's in the process of recording all the sonatas - how many people will buy his recordings after listening to his lectures? I probably will. So yes, it's great that he is doing it, but I don't think it's totally without compensation.

Sam

#2147138 - 09/09/13 05:48 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 298
Ken. Offline
Full Member
Ken.  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 298
I went to the site and found the course, but saw this:

Sessions: Sep 3rd 2013 (5 weeks long)

So if you haven't signed up yet, does that mean you have already missed part of the course, or can you go through the whole course at any time?


Monk - Boo Boo's Birthday
Bach - Two Part Invention No.11
[Linked Image]
#2147142 - 09/09/13 06:02 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Ken.]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
If the registration is still open, the video for the first week lecture is still online. So, I would just trying signing up.


Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci
#2147155 - 09/09/13 06:22 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
The videos stay up for the duration of the course.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2147927 - 09/10/13 09:50 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
mrm2 Offline
Junior Member
mrm2  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
MA
@Sam S: Beethoven knew Bach's Well Tempered Clavier from a pretty early age.

Before Mendelssohn, the WTC was one of the few pieces of Bach that most musicians knew. But other works circulated in hand-written copies among composers. Mozart knew the motets and probably some other vocal works thanks to Baron von Swieten. His acquaintance with those pieces probably influenced his Mass in C minor.


Mike M

Currently working on:
Liszt: Consolation no. 3
Scales and arpeggios ad infinitum

Mason & Hamlin A
Knabe Mignonette Console

"The drop of water hollows the stone not by force, but by persistent dripping."
#2150131 - 09/14/13 03:47 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Who else is doing the first assignment? Which sonata have you chosen, and why?

I'm puzzled by one aspect of the assignment. It seems like the things we are bring asked to examine are easier if one reads music and can examine the score. For example, I can't tell just from listening whether music has modulated, and if so, if it has modulated to a nearby or faraway key. But the course says reading music is not required. I don't know if I could do the assignment if I had to rely only on what I can consciously hear and name in the music.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2150201 - 09/14/13 05:46 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Same here. I don't know how I would answer if I couldn't look at the score. Even with the score I'm not much good. The key change stuff is still hard for me, as is identifying the themes in the music, let alone describing how one sonata movement is different from that in another sonata.

I've been listening to Sonata 1 in F minor, and Sonata 3 in C major, trying to think of similarities and differences to Sonata 7. I chose those two just because I like them. (I'm not submitting the assignment for credit but just thought I'd try it to see what I could come up with).

So far, I've come up with little in terms of the things he discussed re Op.7.
-All three of the sonatas have 4 movements.
-sonatas are written in different keys
-sonata 1 and 4 have a 'minuet' like 3rd movement but Sonata 3 has a 'scherzo' like 3rd mvt which sounds quite different.
-Sonata 3 sounds light and playful to me, but I can't explain exactly why. Whereas Sonatas 1 and 4 don't.

I really don't know how to find the themes and repetitions and consider the different forms in that way. Much of the Prestissimo of Sonata 1 (4th mvt) sounds urgent and breathless to me (except for the lovely light part that doesn't), but I don't know how to describe the 4th mvt of Sonata 4.

Have to listen to the 1st and 2nd mvts again.

here is a site i'm finding helpful--looks like there is info about Sonata 1 and 4 as well as 3 (and several others...)

http://worldofbeethoven.com/op-2-no-3-part-one-new/op-2-no-3-part-two-new/

Last edited by Valencia; 09/14/13 06:56 PM.
#2150690 - 09/15/13 05:30 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,546
zrtf90 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
zrtf90  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,546
Ireland (ex England)
I've chosen sonata op 10 no. 3 because it's been a particular favourite and on my target list for some time. I'm now planning to present the Largo E Mesto for the May ABF Recital.

The first assignment is peer based so I haven't relied much on reading or analysis to answer the questions. The two largo movements differ by one being in ABA form and the other being a close variant of sonata form and, of course, their key compared to the first movements, one the major sixth (C major versus E flat) and the other the tonic minor (D minor versus D major). My other similarities and differences can be found from the briefest of listens and a keen eye on the track listings.



Richard
#2151435 - 09/16/13 03:43 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Phew, assignment submitted! The grading rubric asks for at least three points of similarity and three points of distinction, which I've covered. It also asks for the assignment to be "persuasive and clear," which I can only hope I've achieved!

After several listens to both sonatas, I did a slap-dash consultation of the scores looking for themes, main sections, and rough indications of starting and ending keys for movements and sections.

Valencia, I've been thinking about starting a thread about identifying keys. Would you be interested?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2151625 - 09/16/13 08:14 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 85
quodlibet Offline
Full Member
quodlibet  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 85
Seattle, WA
I've submitted mine too (Opus 2 no. 3 was my pick), but with some trepidation. It was hard to know how much to make of the assignment. On the one hand, I didn't want to make my answer too simplistic, but I also didn't want to write for pages because that seemed a bit much (though certainly possible!). I figured that whoever would be reading it should be spared too much verbiage, so I tried to make it concise but fairly straightforward (also keeping in mind I have no idea how much musical knowledge the peer assessor will have). I fretted about it more than I should have. What can I say, I want the certificate when it's all over!

Really looking forward to the next lecture. I'm enjoying them a lot. Can't wait until he gets to Opus 109, my absolute favorite!

#2158049 - 09/26/13 12:56 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 35
BWV846 Offline
Full Member
BWV846  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 35
Brooklyn, New York
I have been taking the course and enjoying it tremendously.
Jonathan Biss' lectures are excellent. The presentation is great; the lectures are broken down so that you can listen (and read along with closed captions) for short sections. You can also download the lectures and the notes for them to consult at your leisure.

What has been happily most surprising is the Forum Discussion section. Just like here at PianoWorld there is a tremendous range of experience and talent from other course takers and a fantastic amount of information sharing. The topics are excellent with a lot of viewpoints expressed--I may add with a lot of maturity and no backbiting nor nasty behavior.

There are assignments that are not onerous and are really based on what you have learned from the lecture and support material.

The first assignment asked for a comparison of differences and similarities in a couple of sonatas. This is fine but because there are so many variable levels of music experience (and the knowledge of the English language) amongst the others there has been quite a range of replies ranging from exhaustive analytical essays to just a skeletal list of 3 similarities and 3 differences with no additional comments.

There is a system of peer assessment in place that requires everyone who submits an assignment to assess three other submissions.

This has led to some misgivings among submitters. The assessments picked for you are entirely random; you may be asked to assess an 800 word answer that lists the answer criteria and then goes on to a full harmonic analysis of all the movements. Or you may have a 25 word skeletal answer to assess. But you cannot choose the type of answer that you wish to assess. Some have felt totally unable to fully assess an exhaustive answer and some have just marked everyone with the maximum because they think that this course is really just about getting people to listen to the music and enjoy the experience of it and as long as an answer is not about something completely off topic nor plagiarism then the maximum mark is OK.

I have very much enjoyed the assessment process and looked at and peer assessed 100 other answers. Yea, I got carried away but I really enjoyed reading them from a long involved explanation from an obviously sophisticated listener to someone whose first language was not English and because of that had an extremely charming way of expression that was totally heartfelt.

Because of the randomness of the peer assessment my own experience being assessed let me down. Like this message itself I tended to write at a bit of length and in a personal anecdotal manner with lots of feelings and expression. One of my assessors said that I had submitted a lot of "the material that was not on topic" and I think that because of that did not mark my answer with what I believe I should have gotten as a grade. I am not worried about this I am not doing the course for the certificate but for the experience and I believe that since there are more assignments to be submitted I will get the grade that I think that I deserve in the other assignments.

I make a lot of contributions to the forum topics, have opened a couple of threads myself and am listed as one of the top 25 contributors in the listing. ( I am actually a little annoyed at this ranking process because I spend far too much time looking for my particular listing both on the list and in each individual contribution where other can vote a positive or negative decision about the individual post they have just read. I am trying to cure myself of this time waster.)

So I have gone on far far too long about the course but for me it has been a really great experience and I look forward to more of them from the Curtis Institute, from Coursera the course people and from other sources on the Internet.

Last edited by BWV846; 09/26/13 12:58 PM.

Joseph

"If at first you succeed, try to hide your astonishment."
#2158071 - 09/26/13 01:30 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 432
Palmpirate Online content
Full Member
Palmpirate  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 432
B.C.Canada
i have been enjoying this class too and cant believe its week 4 already. I couldnt watch wk3 videos because of internet problems but will catch up. I did read the transcript. Bliss is really good. My assignments are minimal and reviews likewise due to time constraints and my minimal in-depth knowledge, which , thanks to the class itself, is improving! Did run into a bit of back lash re a comment I made taken the wrong way. Must keep my dry british humor to myself! Still the music iswhy I am following along, not to form lasting relationships. Makes me appreciate PW all the more. 2nd assignment seems much more demanding! Must listen through again.


[Linked Image]

#2158105 - 09/26/13 02:27 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I'm suddenly behind also. Haven't listened to the third lecture yet, let alone the fourth, and I gather there's an assignment due this week (or by Monday night?).

Am taking a long busride today, hopefully I can get caught up. Ostensibly I'm going to my college reunion, but I may just hole up in my hotel room and work on Coursera. (I'm also taking a Statistics course, and I'm behind in that also. Oy!)

I haven't participated in the discussion forums at all (*). I find it all a bit overwhelming, which is sort of ridiculous considering how much time I spend on discussion forums (PW, cough cough). But I will try to have a read-through of some of what people have been talking about.

I was really intrigued by a comment someone made about the first assignment -- that in doing assessments he could tell people who had gone to the score, and he thought the assignment was really about just listening, and saying what you could about the sonatas from what you heard. Which is really interesting. It both has me thinking "I couldn't say very much without the score" and also thinking "Interesting -- listen more."

I haven't seen my assessments for my homework yet, but I'm trying not to stress about it. I wrote honestly, the value of the assignment is largely in the doing of it, any good feedback I get will be gravy, and any less than helpful feedback I'll just extract if there's anything useful, and otherwise ignore.

(*) No, wait, I've posted once, in reponse to someone who was being a j*rk about the quality of the assignments he had assessed.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2158109 - 09/26/13 02:41 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88

Valencia, I've been thinking about starting a thread about identifying keys. Would you be interested?


Hi PianoStudent88--Sure any time you want to do this I would be interested. However maybe wait until you are not so busy with your other assignments! As for the Beethoven assignment, it is to listen to one if Hayden's final 3 sonatas:

Sonata in C major Hob XVI:50
Sonata in D Major Hob XVI: 51
Sonata in E-flat major Hob XVI: 52

Write 2 paragraphs on how Hayden's late in life conception of the sonata differs from beethoven's. (4 valid points of difference).

Write 1 paragraph on how you respond to these distinctions when listening (2 points of experience).

#2158132 - 09/26/13 03:09 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 85
quodlibet Offline
Full Member
quodlibet  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 85
Seattle, WA
Interesting comment about going to the score vs. mostly listening. I'd be much more in the dark without the score, as I'm primarily a visual sort of learner. My teacher once did a brief ear training exercise with me, and it was awful. He kept having to simplify it so I could get at least one right answer! I can identify a V-I (dominant-tonic) cadence pretty well, but anything other than that I can't readily recognize except for obvious key changes.

For this week's assignment, I'm going to listen and follow the score(s). I think I'll be doing the C major Haydn, as it's the only one I've ever actually heard before.

I must've gotten really nice assessors. I had two people review my last assignment, and both gave high scores and very nice comments about my work. One person even included a smiley face in his/her comments. smile

#2158136 - 09/26/13 03:24 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
dynamobt Online content
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 974
NH
I fell flat early on because of time constraints. I'm still listening to the lectures. But no assignments. I could beat myself up for not doing more. But, there is only so much of me to go around. As it is, yesterday we mowed the entire property and practicing took a backseat. I pay a lot for lessons. I hate going in unprepared. So, something had to give. I chose putting the Grieg recital listening and commenting ahead of the Beethoven course.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2158141 - 09/26/13 03:38 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: dynamobt]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Valencia Offline
500 Post Club Member
Valencia  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 574
Originally Posted by dynamobt
I fell flat early on because of time constraints. I'm still listening to the lectures. But no assignments. I could beat myself up for not doing more. But, there is only so much of me to go around. As it is, yesterday we mowed the entire property and practicing took a backseat. I pay a lot for lessons. I hate going in unprepared. So, something had to give. I chose putting the Grieg recital listening and commenting ahead of the Beethoven course.


dynamobt, i'm not actually doing/submitting the assignments. I too mostly just listen to the lectures. If I have time I may give a listen to a Hayden sonata and see if I can imagine responses to any of the questions he is asking on the assignment. I have a feeling this assignment would be hard for me, given i still have trouble identifying the different parts of sonata form on listening.

#2158145 - 09/26/13 03:58 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 420
joflah Offline
Full Member
joflah  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 420
St. Louis, MO, USA
I've been listening to and enjoying the lectures, but I haven't done any assignments either. I have little use for a "course completion certficate". In any case, I prefer Charmin.


Jack
#2158152 - 09/26/13 04:20 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I find that doing the assignments makes me engage with the course material at a deeper level, and solidifies my understanding. Then if I get interesting feedback from the assignment, that's a nice extra, but not essential. It's not about the certificate for me.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2159893 - 09/30/13 12:58 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I've submitted the second assignment. I fear I have committed a serious amount of waffle pointing out the most facilely obvious of differences, half of which I only know from the score and can't even hear. Well, even realizing that and starting to wonder if there are deeper differences represents learning for me. So, mission accomplished.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2166108 - 10/14/13 01:06 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member
EdwardianPiano  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 800
Rainy England
Piano student I have just finished the course and I did all 3 assignments! What an amazing course- I liked Beethoven a lot before now I LOVE Beethoven and he is now my ultimate favourite composer ( it was Chopin)- the Hammerklavier- wow!!!! Opus 109- wow!!!!
I have never loved a course as much as this one in my whole life ( and I have done a wide range of loads of different subjects)- it has been a turning point for me.
I'm sad it's ending but some of us started a Google group!


https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.
#2245262 - 03/12/14 10:05 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,039
scorpio Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scorpio  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,039
Connecticut, USA
This course is starting tomorrow. If you are interested: https://www.coursera.org/course/beethovensonatas

Also, I found this great deal: http://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Box-Set-Complete-Beethoven/dp/B00A1BC3B2


Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq Standard

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Willy Wonka


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
#2245315 - 03/12/14 11:07 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
I'm going to watch some of the lectures this time around.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245614 - 03/12/14 08:28 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: scorpio]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 96
thorn_was_taken Offline
Full Member
thorn_was_taken  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 96
I'm registered for this -- I signed up ages ago and received confirmation, but had been expecting a reminder email from Coursera as the start-date approaches. That didn't happen (I did check my spam folder) -- so: THANK YOU for the reminder!!


thorn

-- Sometimes I poke. Even if I like you.

1920's Mason & Hamlin A
#2245884 - 03/13/14 10:33 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Well, well, well. Three minutes into the first lecture and he's already said something wrong.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245900 - 03/13/14 10:48 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Well, well, well. Three minutes into the first lecture and he's already said something wrong.

Do tell -- what was wrong?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2245903 - 03/13/14 10:50 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: PianoStudent88]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Originally Posted by PianoStudent88
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Well, well, well. Three minutes into the first lecture and he's already said something wrong.

Do tell -- what was wrong?

He said, "Beethoven's only three predecessors who are connected with him in any meaningful way are Bach, Haydn, and Mozart."


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245905 - 03/13/14 10:52 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,990
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,990
USA
Clementi was just as important to Beethoven.

#2245907 - 03/13/14 10:54 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
The glaring omission, however, is Handel.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245908 - 03/13/14 11:00 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
He's just made another mistake. He said the Well-Tempered Clavier, French Suites, and English Suites were published as Ubungen. And then to reinforce the error, he offers it as a quiz question at the end.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245913 - 03/13/14 11:24 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
I can't believe he's just said that only Beethoven's piano sonatas, quartets and symphonies are important work.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245921 - 03/13/14 11:39 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
He keeps stating that Haydn was the next significant composer after Bach. Many would disagree. What about Gluck? CPE Bach?


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245927 - 03/13/14 11:46 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
I hope that you'll be able to perservere at least until the first lecture that analyses a sonata. I can't wait to hear you rip the analysis apart too.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2245928 - 03/13/14 11:47 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Pointing out a few errors is hardly ripping it apart, in my opinion.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2245989 - 03/13/14 01:43 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,039
scorpio Offline
1000 Post Club Member
scorpio  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,039
Connecticut, USA
So now I don't know which point of view to believe. confused


Kawai MP11 : JBL LSR305 : Focusrite 2i4 : Pianoteq Standard

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams. Willy Wonka


[Linked Image] [Linked Image]
#2245995 - 03/13/14 01:59 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Pointing out a few errors is hardly ripping it apart, in my opinion.

I didn't mean my comment particularly critically. Rather light-heartedly in fact. I can see how my tone doesn't come across in my post.

I will be interested to hear what you think of Biss' sonata analyses.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2246026 - 03/13/14 03:02 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Well, those six seem to be all for this week.

He did make some pretty significant oversights when explaining about sonata form, but nothing too bad.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2246049 - 03/13/14 03:39 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Care to elaborate on the oversights? Perhaps list them, or some of them?


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2246052 - 03/13/14 03:46 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
For example, he talked for ages about the tonic-dominant relationship but gave the minor tonic-mediant relationship only a passing mention.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2246456 - 03/14/14 09:46 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Toronto, Canada
Somewhat related to this thread ... I think

I found the 2nd movement of Moonlight Sonata to be very engaging and so ... have decided to continue with Beethoven and attempt to learn the Scherzo section of the 5th symphony. In looking at the Beethoven playlist from the recital index, it appears not covered.

The transcription for piano solo is by Liszt, and so looks pretty official. I realize however, this was not --initially at least-- intended for piano solo.

Does anyone have experience or expertise with this movement for piano? Suggestions, advice, what sections to begin with (this has been a big help with other projects.) Or, perhaps ... stay away?

I love expressive music, and I would rate this one quite high on the expressive list.

thx




#2246496 - 03/14/14 11:03 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Oh come now. You can't play the scherzo without the finale. laugh


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2246522 - 03/14/14 11:57 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Toronto, Canada
The scherzo is somewhat of a recap of the 1st., yes?
Maybe the 2nd as well? I'm guessing ...

If so, seems to me like the perfect section to summarize the piece down to a mere 8 pages of Allegro ...

The first few bars of any work will often indicate whether I am remotely interested. I wasn't (am not) interested in taking on the 3rd movement of the Moonlight (even though there are sections I am very curious about.) Just too big a project for a non-reader ...

This one though, seems doable with time ... a lot of time perhaps ... but doable nonetheless.

Still trying to get my head around the Scherzo and if worth the effort. I think it will be ... even without the finale.

Plus, ask my wife about my unfinished projects; There have been a few and she is very efficient at keeping track ... smile


#2246589 - 03/14/14 02:42 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
You can't just play a bunch of dominant seventh tremolos and cut it off right before the glorious tune. grin


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2246654 - 03/14/14 04:51 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Toronto, Canada
Well I know that. Where does it end then?

end then?

Surely I don't need to play the entire 4th to close the 3rd. That would break the deal for sure.


[Linked Image]
#2246657 - 03/14/14 04:56 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Greener]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Originally Posted by Greener
Well I know that. Where does it end then?

It doesn't. The third and the fourth are one continuous movement, attacca.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2246664 - 03/14/14 05:09 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,221
Toronto, Canada
Oh my ...
well, better get started then ...



[Linked Image]
#2249424 - 03/20/14 10:23 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: scorpio]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Looks like PS88 may get her wish. I'm about to start watching the Week 2 lectures on the Opus 7 sonata. laugh


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2249458 - 03/20/14 11:34 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Awesome smile !


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2249464 - 03/20/14 11:42 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
The problem is he hasn't really done any analysis.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2249476 - 03/20/14 12:24 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Well, he can't really do any hardcore analysis given the broad audience for the course. (I think... But maybe there might be ways to say things for a broad audience that get at things more complex than what Biss gets into? I don't know.) Let me clarify my desire: I hope to hear what you have to say in response to what Biss says about the sonatas.

Last edited by PianoStudent88; 03/20/14 12:25 PM.

Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2253111 - 03/27/14 02:23 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
The 3rd week is up. Let's see if there's some real analysis in this one.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2253127 - 03/27/14 02:46 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
Wow. Most of his tempos are ridiculously fast.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2253465 - 03/28/14 10:00 AM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Polyphonist]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,129
Ataru074 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ataru074  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,129
Houston, TX
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
Wow. Most of his tempos are ridiculously fast.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one thinking it.



Private Piano Teacher. MTNA
working on:
Albeniz: Iberia
Beethoven: Op 53
Bartok: Mikrokosmos vol. 5
Debussy: Estampes
Moszkowski: Op 72
#2253743 - 03/28/14 10:05 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,269
New York City
I'm not particularly impressed by these lectures. For example, far superior are the 33 Andras Schiff lectures, which are more comprehensive and better delivered.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2265562 - 04/22/14 08:33 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,273
MaryBee Offline
1000 Post Club Member
MaryBee  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,273
Cleveland, OH
I just finished listening to the last of the lectures, and I have to say that I loved this course. I didn't really know much of anything about Beethoven's sonatas when I started this course. But now I at least have a sense of their role and influence in the development of music styles, and why Beethoven is considered such a great composer (not just because his music sounds good!). And it was just really fun to listen to someone who has studied this music for so long, knows it intimately, and obviously loves it.


Mary Bee
Current mantra: Play outside the box.
[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] XVI-XXXVI
#2602661 - 01/09/17 09:39 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 151
RubberFingers Offline
Full Member
RubberFingers  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 151
Biss is back with more content on Coursera. Started today.

#2602671 - 01/09/17 10:02 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 376
Pianoperformance Offline
Full Member
Pianoperformance  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 376
Thx you


Dream came true : playing the piano
Kawai CS11/Yamaha Arius 161
lessons: 150 hours + counting
#2602922 - 01/10/17 04:31 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 64
dancingfish Offline
Full Member
dancingfish  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 64
Oregon, USA
Anyone know if the assignments are required for those who are taking Coursera courses for free (e.g. "previewing" the course)?

I'm looking at several of the free courses there, but wondering about the time commitment. I do understand that you get out of the course what you put into it, and doing the assignments has real value, even if not for a grade or certificate. Just trying not to overcommit my time.


Linda
Kawaii CE220 | Pianoteq 5 Stage
In progress: Faber Adult All-In-One Book 2 | Fundamental Keys
[Linked Image] XLVII
#2602926 - 01/10/17 04:43 PM Re: Coursera Exploring Beethoven's Piano Sonatas [Re: Sundew]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
PianoStudent88 Online content
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Online Content
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,145
Maine
Assignments are never required, unless you are paying for a course and want to achieve a course certificate.

You can do as much or as little as you choose for any Coursera course, whether or not you are paying for the course.

Nobody sees your achievements in a course unless you share them yourself. Coursera doesn't penalize you for work left undone in a course, or low marks or anything.

Look at them as pure learning opportunities. It's like a library: a library doesn't penalize you for returning books unread or partially read or where you skipped ahead and read the last page first.

You can also pace your learning at whatever pace you choose, and complete the course either much faster or much slower than nominally is indicated on the course schedule.

The only place where the considerations can be different is where you're paying for a course either to get access to the assignments or to earn a course certificate, because there are typically time limits associated with those, although the only penalty for missing the time limit is having to pay again if you want to continue.

It's really a lovely experiment in learning for the sake of learning.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Any Moog PianoBar users here?
by Dnsmo. 12/11/17 05:47 PM
Why I love and hate the internet.
by JayWalkingBlues. 12/11/17 04:32 PM
Thought I was retired!
by synthnut. 12/11/17 04:07 PM
Which is the best software synth for AP's & EP's ?
by sonicblasphemy. 12/11/17 02:09 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,218
Posts2,678,441
Members89,264
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0