Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum It pays to use a qualified professional.

Precisely, Loren. It is not unreasonable at all for a really good, fast tech to inspect a piano in short order. (I was giving some of us from The Hot Sunny South a little extra time for our s-l-o-w movin' - especially in dealing with a grand piano.)

Exactly! Remember that in this situation, all we're really doing for the customer is telling them whether it's a piano to avoid moving, etc. Now, if we're called to appraise a piano for rebuilding or repairs, then yes, a much more thorough inspection is called for so you can give the customer accurate information and also make sure you don't end up eating costs you didn't count on.

If I called an appliance guy to see if it was worth buying a used washer, and he charged me $300, I'd be pretty upset!

Indeed. A purchase assessment is pretty straightforward.

I discuss CL pianos with a lot of people. I tell them if they want to shop on CL, let me help pick a piano and go with them to inspect it. We also talk about what it would take for one of these pianos to be put into decent condition if they do buy it.

It's good for my business, and people find functional pianos that will last them, that they can afford.

the French name of the operation is "aller voir" meaning "going to have an eye on" (as when movers come to see the stairs)

It can be done very fast - indeed some action problems may pass unsuspected, but if the piano is in an acceptable fair condition it is seen very soon.

Nothing really dismounted unless a problem is detected and repairs are to be priced.

The cost is a little less than a tuning.

I prefer to help the customer to find something in their budget, than going on his own selection, with a selection on the CL, a few phone calls, it is easy for a professional to have an idea of the instrument. I get paid for that indeed. I have no much time to do so those days but it happened enough.

Those days when selling a second hand piano, it is not so rare that the customer ask to come with his tuner, or piano teacher.

Well accepted in the trade, but many avoid the situation.

Today home prep, and first tuning is a part of the price negotiation , while yet under evaluated.

Thank you, Ando, for your kind remarks. Your questions and observations have great depth and deserve no less in response. They not only speak to the present, but reach far beyond to an uncertain future of two allied industries linked in decline - one in virtual free fall and the other not far behind. To do proper justice would easily constitute a volume.

There are no easy answers. Our industry is anything but monolithic. Comprised of virtually all Chiefs and few Indians, there are almost as many opinions as there are mouths. Consequently, answers that will satisfy everyone usually prove elusive.

I can only speak from one perspective. My own. Others will weigh in. You'll have to determine what is germane.

The answer to your first question is: I do not know the number of techs who are able and willing to teach. Couldn't even hazard a guess. There is much more to teaching than possessing requisite knowledge of tuning, repair and running a business. What few times I have agreed to help one learn the craft have met with failure. I am a technician, not a teacher. No one is helped by me pretending to be a teacher. And, yes, it takes all of my time and energy just to run my business. Only in retirement have I found time to participate in the PW forums.

The consequence that you predict for our industry could be on target. If, for whatever reasons, techs do not pass the art and science on to the next generation - if they do not find creative ways to generate enough interest and desire in young hearts and minds to embrace it as a career - such would in all likelihood die with them; were it not, however, for the unprecedented number of schools and colleges that now teach piano technology. If this system works well for learning other professions, there is no reason why it cannot work well for ours. The future of our trade is not wholly predicated upon a declining number of techs who are willing to "teach."

With respect to your second question, we all have a tendency to view the world in our own little box. Consequently, we err greatly in thinking that educational and career opportunities are universal. In certain quarters, there are little to none. Accordingly, one who desires to take up the Tuner's Mantle, either as a career or a hobby, faces formidable challenges. However, with the spirit and desire that you manifest, I have no doubt that you are the kind of person who can learn this trade even if you have to teach it to yourself via proper books, instructions, etc.

Your presence and comments here on PW suggest that you are no "DIYer." At least not as I understand and use the moniker. You are on a professional forum because you want to learn first, and do second. You are a student. The only question that remains is: Will you see it through?

Thanks again, and best wishes.

Good point. And it is not unheard of for a tech to do some of this gratis knowing that such kindness is often rewarded with a lifelong customer.

Piano purchase prospects are sometimes surprised to learn from a professional tech important info like: the used piano at the store priced at $800 is really a better buy than the same piano on CL for $495. In my area, at least one dealer would add: 1) free delivery, 2) one free tuning in-store and 3) one free tuning later, in-home, 4) a full one year warranty, 5) full price trade-in on an upgrade to a new piano (if done within, I think, one year), 6) financing with little-to-nothing down, and 7)lots of good advice on placement, etc.

+1! Often times I've done it for long-time customers and churches, etc.

yes; certainly. It is more useful when you chase for a good piano and have a decent budget/ Then the tech collaboration is really a must.

Then there's the guy who upgraded from a spinet to a small grand piano. He acquired it from an individual who advertised in the classified section of the local newspaper.

Without calling upon professional help of any kind - neither technical writings nor verbal or on-site consult with a qualified tech - he examined the instrument thinking that spotting a problem would be easy. After all, he was a pianist.

After delivery to his home, the piano would not hold a tune - especially in the tenor section. So, he called a piano tech who, upon examination, revealed the presence of several cracks in the harp running diagonally from pin-to-pin about the space of two to three inches. The piano could not be tuned. Given that it was an older stencil piano, any viable attempt at repair would clearly be throwing good money after bad.

This is a perfect example of DIY. A purchase is made, or a repair is attempted, without seeking qualified professional assistance whatsoever: No advance recon. No reading technical writings. No verbal or on-site consult with a technician. He literally does it himself.

He's like the person who buys a product that requires rather involved assembly and doesn't bother to read the directions. Eschewing professional guidance in any form, he takes the plunge. Sometimes it works, others times it doesn't.

But, it is his prerogative to gamble with his own money.

On the other hand, as piano techs it is our prerogative to advise against it.

The thing is that some DIY are really enthusiastic and so proud of being able to "do something" on their own instrument, that they may be reluctant to accept advise from a professional.
.

I have had that situation sometime, and I understand it as the person knows more or less how far he is from a professional quality, and is a little afraid to have some of his work pointed.

When I really could not understand it, is when it is proposed to learn how to tune a few unisons, and the person yet have a tuning lever and try to arrange some notes sometime.

One proposed explained me that all the piano work was sort of hobby, and he have more pleasure to discover things by himself.

As long as his interventions are only on his own instruments all is well for me.

But the enthusiastic that try to learn to tune and need more pianos to train himself will propose to neighbors and friends sometime. Then ask for a small fee...
Some are gifted when repairing and have enough intellect ability to obtain an adequate idea of what they do. I have seen a few total beginners without any formal training, who are know recognized as experts in a small market "niche" .

The level can be good, but I do not trust it can compare with a properly trained specialist.

Then I have also seen enough repairs done by "experts" that where a little frustrating for the pianist, so I understand that some want to do it themselves.

Unfortunately, when you have worked on concert pianos, you have tonal references that make you hear the defects in repairs, where others will find the job good ans satisfying.
A good musical sensitivity and experience will certainly help DIY and some can finish with some experience, but it is relatively rare in the end.

Very good points, Isaac. Thanks

This 40+ year old story comes courtesy of my late "mentor."

It's short.

The guy who thought old bass strings could be renewed by removing the whole set and cooking 'em in oil.

Don't recall what type of oil: motor, olive, vegetable.

Care to guess how that one turned out?

Then there are the folks who use a professional, but do not follow his instructions.

While tuning a church upright, the tuner discovers a serious problem with mice. The little pests are just about to destroy the innards.

Tuner suggests setting traps outside of the piano: kitchen, behind the instrument, etc, because you want to avoid putting poison in the piano, the critters dying in the keybed (a popular nesting place), stinking up the place, and having to pay to have keys removed to get to the carcass.

Six months later, and it's time to tune again. Tuner opens the lid and sees rat poison pellets scattered about the action, etc. Later, when he adjusts the trapwork, an open jar of peanut butter is found next to the bass bridge.

Why peanut butter? Guess they thought it would attract mice into the piano where they would feast on the poison too.

Guess they were also out of cheese.

From the archives:

Guy buys a Steinway grand for a piddling salvage fee. Been in a house fire. Totaled out by the insurance co. "Only smoke damaged with a little indirect spray" he's told by the adjuster.

He totes the instrument to a rebuilder along with a whopper of a check.

After all is said and done, several months later he decides that it's now time to call a piano tech.

Tech arrives. Glue joints are already giving way here and there. And there's no end in sight.

All of this could have been avoided by a simple free phone call to the piano tech (of his acquaintance) who condemned the thing in the first place.

For a serious pianist on a tight budget-the most cost effective way to acquire a grand piano that plays and sounds like a performing piano should-is to collaborate with a tech who is fully skilled in tone-regulation and action rebuilding.

I have some clients who find (for example), a 20YO Samick 6' on CL from a home where it was not played much for around $6K. Piano still looks much like new. I then replaced the hammers, shanks, flanges; key-bushings; repined damper action and whippens; corrected action geometry and strike point; and re-shaped capo dastro bar for another $7K to $8K.

For some $14K they now have a piano that plays and sounds marvelous and is very easy to keep that way even when played several hours a day for many years.

For clients like these I do not charge to inspect prospective instruments.

Nashville might call this "up-selling"-my clients call it wonderful.

Great example, Ed. Thanks!

As a piano Technician, I don't buy or sell pianos on Craigslist, but I love when people do. They call me to clean up the mess. My services don't come cheap either