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Just returning from long trip, visiting a number of major dealers.

Time to bring some life back here again.

One thing I noticed is the curious, consistent but somewhat "odd" "combination of brands" commonly offered by dealers.

Here's the question:

How many Steinway dealers out there offer also such makes as Fazioli, C.Bechstein, Boesendorfer, Grotrian, Sauter and/or even Estonia?

If not, why not?

How many dealers for Japanese pianos offer not just some low grade Chinese pianos as cost alternative but also some of the better ones such a Brodmann, Ritmueller Hailun and Perzina?

Obviously no single Yamaha dealer offering Kawai, vice versa.
"Obvious" - but obvious "why"?

Is side-by-side comparison by shoppers actively and "preventatively" being discouraged by market?

"Too dangerous" for dealers for name brand products expected to sell by "brand name" only?

Just like car dealers - can one really blame them?

Now, don't ask me what else I found by visiting the various dealers on my trip. To be honest, nothing I didn't know before.

Start shooting.

Norbert

The answer to the question and the motivation for the question(just pushing the same endlessly repeated agenda)are obvious. In fact, the post is just restating something Norbert has stated about a thousand times in the past but rephrasing it as a question.

Perhaps the shoe should be put on the other foot and one should ask something like:
Why don't some Sauter dealers stock other Tier 1 pianos or why don't some Estonia dealers stock some other Tier 2 pianos?

Steinway dealers are not allowed to carry other high end brands, as far as I know.

Ellenburger here

Stephen:

Pearl River and Hailun are mentioned in your signature but not in your website.

Have they recently been replaced by Ellenburgers?

Norbert

Norbert, I suspect that part of the answer has to do with the depth of the piano market where each dealer is located. The scenario you suggest is not uncommon in Germany, but then, not only is the population concentrated, but piano studies are much more common than here in the Western Hemisphere. One of my favorite dealers, Oberlingers, located just NW of Mainz and Wiesbaden, carried many tier 1 brands, and had them on the floor side by side. They had (I put this in the past tense, because I haven't been there in 10 years) Steinways, Bechsteins, Bosendorfers, Schimmels, Sauters, Kawaii, Young Chang, and others who now slip my memory.

The good jokes never die...

John:

Your experience with dealers in Germany is similar like mine, here's 3 examples of interesting diversity:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/grand_pianos.html

http://www.piano-fischer.de/musikinstrumente/marken.html

http://www.musik-klier.de/indexCat.asp?pg=250&c=klaviere

Norbert

Norbert,

Did your deliberately misspell "shooting"? "Schooting" sounds more German.

Your question CAN be construed as a subtle form of horn-blowing. However, I'm still new to this forum and am not yet a hardened cynic, thus I will give your the benefit of the doubt - this time!

With the exception of very small markets, Steinway insist that their dealers carry only Steinway piano lines. However, there is nothing to prevent a non-Steinway dealer from allowing their customers to audition used and rebuilt Steinways alongside their new Faziolis, Bechsteins, Estonias, etc.

Kawai and Yamaha do not require their franchisees to carry their brands exclusively, thus there are plenty of non-exclusive Kawai and Yamaha dealers. Some of these dealers carry some of the better Chinese/Korean pianos (Brodmann, Hailun, Weber, etc.) alongside Yamaha and Kawai models. There are even dealers that carry both Kawai and Yamaha digital pianos (e.g., Allegro Pianos). However, I do not have personal knowledge of a dealer that carries both Kawai and Yamaha new acoustic pianos. As you are a piano retailer, can YOU tell us why?

There are a few - very few - non-Steinway high-end dealers that carry one brand exclusively. Kasimoff Piano, the Bluthner dealer in Los Angeles, is the only example that I know of.

However, there are plenty of piano dealers that carry several performance-grade makes that directly compete with each other. Some prominent examples would be:

Allegro Pianos in NYC & Stamford, Connecticut (Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Estonia, August Forster, Steingraeber);

Faust Harrison Pianos in NYC & White Plains, NY (Bechstein, Mason & Hamlin, Schimmel, Yamaha CF);

Cunningham Piano in Philadelphia (Bosendorfer, Estonia, Schimmel, Charles Walter);

PianoCraft in Gaithersburg, MD (Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Steingraeber, Charles Walter);

Ruggero Pianos in Raleigh, NC (Bechstein, Bluthner, Bosendorfer, Estonia, Fazioli, Mason & Hamlin, Schimmel, Charles Walter);

PianoWorks in Atlanta (Bosendorfer, Estonia, Grotrian, Seiler);

EuroPianos in Naples, FL (Bechstein, Bosendorfer, August Forster, Sauter, Schimmel);

Collora Piano in Dallas, Texas (Bosendorfer, Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Schimmel, Charles Walter);

R. Kassman in Berkeley, California (Bechstein, Estonia, Grotrian, Sauter, Steingraeber); and

Showcase Pianos in Vancouver, BC (Fazioli, Bechstein and Grotrian).

Even you, Norbert, carry both Sauter and Estonia at Heritage Pianos in Surrey, BC.

Therefore, based on my own piano shopping experience, I would have to disagree with you - side-by-side comparison of competing brands DO occur. However, you will probably have to shop in metropolitan areas with populations of at least 1,500,000 in order to do so.

Almaviva:

Point well taken, there are indeed many dealers with such con-current brands you mentioned.

However my question was more specifically aimed at Steinway dealers carrying other tier 1 or tier 2 pianos and Yamaha/Kawai dealers carrying some of the top Chinese makers.

Or "Korean" if it's helping things..

I am asking specifically "Chinese" as several ones of them are thought to be particularly good alternatives on market today.

[Not asking anybody to buy what we have - nor care.]

Personally, we LOVE to have others on same floor, especially top name brands...

But why not the other way around?

So, any specific dealers you know actually doing it?

Thanks in advance.

Norbert

Where is Noona when we need her?

True. But this time squished into a patty and fried. Unless, it really exists.

Though this is often stated, it is simply not the case. Schmitt Music, the store which I am most familiar, is the Steinway dealership and also carries other non-Steinway brands. They even have their own "house brand," the Lyrica, which is built by Pearl River and competes with Essex.

It is true, however, that they do not carry other "tier one" pianos that would compete with the Steinway name.

Interesting, Marty. I was quoting a guy who works for Reifsnyder's Piano in Lancaster, Pa. He is a Steinway dealer, and he carries Charles Walter and Pearl River models. He told me that Steinway allows their dealers in small markets to carry non-Steinway brands.

Well, Minneapolis is hardly a small market, and Schmitt does carry non-Steinway pianos. Apparently this misconception is wide-spread within the piano industry itself.

Come to think of it, Norbert, there IS one dealer that I know of - Richmond Pianos in Richmond, Virginia. They carry Schimmel, Charles Walter, Kawai, Brodmann and Baldwin.

Why should they carry such over-priced, over-hyped brands when they already sell the world's finest piano?



Field's in Orange County is presently selling Hailun and Weber along with their Kawais and Steinways. That will change soon, though as they become a Steinway Gallery.



You should pay more attention to the market. SoCal Pianos in Ontario sells new Yamaha, Kawai, Mason and Hamlin, Bechstein/W. Hoffmann and Samick.



I doubt the market cares.



Bang!

There is a dealer in Edinburgh, Scotland which I visited in around 2001 and they were official distributors for both Steinway and C.Bechstein at the time. They also had a load of Petrofs next to the Bostons. I don't know for how long this was the case, but they no longer sell new Steinways. I was there again recently, and they still have C.Bechstein and Grotrian - maybe other 'top tiers', but I wouldn't know because they keep them at the back of the store behind a rope and I wasn't allowed anywhere near them, because I was enquiring about cheaper rebuilds at the time. Actually the dealer unhelpfully didn't want me to touch any of his pianos, because he didn't currently have anything in my price range in stock. Very strange sales tactic...

The more often I hear Steinway referred to unequivocally as the 'world's finest piano' the more I'm put off buying one altogether. I'd rather take the time to really consider all options out there in order to find the perfect piano for me personally than just fall for marketing tricks and unquestionably buy a product without engaging my brain first. I wonder if the arrogance of some of the salespeople representing Steinway is in fact doing more harm than good.

I try to put these negative connotations of the Steinway brand aside when I'm trying out their pianos so that I can evaluate them purely on their attributes as musical instruments and not status symbols . They are of course excellent pianos, but my favourite so far is a Bosendorfer.

Almaviva:

Reifsnyder's Pianos doesn't seem to offer Walter grands,
only their uprigths. Grands is where the "action" is.

http://reifsnyders.com/newpianos.php

Socal pianos does not appear to be NEW Steinway dealer but lists both Yamaha and Kawai. Thinking this is great!

http://www.socalpianos.com/ManufacturerList.aspx

Schmitt Music is Steinway dealer but does not seem to offer any other pianos from tiers 1-2-3

Common scenario?

http://www.schmittmusic.com/piano/products/grand/shop-grand-pianos.php

Norbert

They also carry Walter. They have three locations and the line up is a bit different at all three. The folks there are nice. They should tune their pianos more often though.

The San Marcos store also has a great sheet music collection.