Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
113 registered members (ando, anotherscott, accordeur, agent8698, amad23, 28 invisible), 2,015 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2129446 - 08/07/13 02:08 PM Pen in Action  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Major Major Offline
Full Member
Major Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
I managed to drop a pen I was using to mark some sheet music and, of course, it immediately fell behind the fallboard of my Hailun grand. I can see it but cannot get it. Will this hurt the piano? It seems to play okay. Will it wait for my next scheduled tuning? Is there a way to retrieve it myself?


Thanks

(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#2129457 - 08/07/13 02:54 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Try lifting the lid. Some come out easily.
Try a long tweezer or magnetic rod if the pen has some steel.
Some lids are attached to the cheek blocks. Remove the cheek blocks (blocks beside keys in bass and treble) and lid will come with them. Screws under piano.

The pen should not be a problem, other than creating some rattling. Move it along so it is on rarely played keys.

Last edited by Mark Cerisano, RPT; 08/07/13 02:55 PM.

Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
#2129474 - 08/07/13 03:39 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Emmery Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Emmery  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Niagara Region, On. Canada
Most pens don't have anything a magnet will grab so try some juicy fruit type gum on the end of a wire or some of that tacky stuff for putting up posters,


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#2129514 - 08/07/13 05:57 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member
OperaTenor  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,556
Sandy Eggo, California
The easiest way to retrieve it is by removing the fallboard. If you don;t feel confident enough to do that, just wait until next time you have it tuned, and have your tech perform a "pencillectomy." In the meantime, the worst the pen will probably do it rattle a little.



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2129929 - 08/08/13 01:40 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: OperaTenor]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Major Major Offline
Full Member
Major Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Thanks to everyone for their replies.

The dealer came over and got it out in two minutes... literally. Seems its just a couple of screws and the fallboard comes right off the hinges.

No more pens or pencils on the music rack!


#2129946 - 08/08/13 02:15 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: OperaTenor]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,653
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,653
Michigan
Originally Posted by OperaTenor
<snip> and have your tech perform a "pencillectomy." In the meantime, the worst the pen will probably do it rattle a little.


Generally true except when it gives you a whole octave of notes when you play one.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2130325 - 08/09/13 11:06 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: kpembrook]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Major Major Offline
Full Member
Major Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
kpembrook,

I didn't notice that but I did feel a slight sense of a key binding a bit if the pen rolled into just the right position. A lesson well learned. The dealer says he will now warn first time grand buyers about this when they purchase.

Perhaps it would help if the manufacturer applied an easily removable decal to the music rack that says:

"WARNING! Placing a pen or pencil on your music rack will automatically activate Murphy's Law and the object will almost certainly end up located in the action of your piano" eek

I guess composers have to become adept at removing pencils from their actions unless they are using laptops or I-Pads.

#2130344 - 08/09/13 11:42 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,653
kpembrook Offline
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,653
Michigan
Originally Posted by PianoismyScrip
kpembrook,

I didn't notice that but I did feel a slight sense of a key binding a bit if the pen rolled into just the right position. A lesson well learned. The dealer says he will now warn first time grand buyers about this when they purchase.

Perhaps it would help if the manufacturer applied an easily removable decal to the music rack that says:

"WARNING! Placing a pen or pencil on your music rack will automatically activate Murphy's Law and the object will almost certainly end up located in the action of your piano" eek


I guess composers have to become adept at removing pencils from their actions unless they are using laptops or I-Pads.



I like the way you state the warning. Actually, that should be part of the standard "taking care of your piano" spiel from both sales people and piano technicians. I do it on an apparent "as needed" basis when I see a particular customer is stocking pens on their music desk.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#2130351 - 08/09/13 11:52 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
A pencil on the music desk is required equipment for all pianists learning new literature.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2130402 - 08/09/13 01:28 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
Conway, AR USA
Pencil removal from the action has to be the number one most often service call from piano teachers.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2130408 - 08/09/13 01:33 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,224
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,224
Melbourne, Australia
Surely you'd only ever need help for this once. Once you see how the tech gets it out - you know what to do!

#2130448 - 08/09/13 02:46 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: ando]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted by ando
Surely you'd only ever need help for this once. Once you see how the tech gets it out - you know what to do!


One would think so, but removing the fallboard and dislodging a pencil invariably gives rise to another problem: The pianist either cannot figure out how to properly reinstall the fallboard or it manages to get stuck. And those are the easy ones. There's the Steinway fallboard/cheek block apparatus that seems to stump 'em every time.

Last edited by bkw58; 08/09/13 02:48 PM. Reason: typo

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2130451 - 08/09/13 02:54 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: bkw58]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,224
ando Online content
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,224
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by bkw58
Originally Posted by ando
Surely you'd only ever need help for this once. Once you see how the tech gets it out - you know what to do!


One would think so, but removing the fallboard and dislodging a pencil invariably gives rise to another problem: The pianist either cannot figure out how to properly reinstall the fallboard or it manages to get stuck. And those are the easy ones. There's the Steinway fallboard/cheek block apparatus that seems to stump 'em every time.


Maybe for people with no mechanical aptitude, that may be true. I'd bet my life I could get it back together - especially if a tech showed me. People are scared of their own shadows these days. Gotta have specialist help for everything.

#2130459 - 08/09/13 03:08 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
Conway, AR USA
Fear is certainly part of it. Especially when fallboard removal requires cheek blocks in tandem, some are afraid of scratching the finish. Even the best technicians will occasionally mar the finish doing this.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2130472 - 08/09/13 03:52 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,430
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,430
Oakland
A simple way to avoid it is to fasten something onto the end of the pencil that you use at the piano. One of those ribbons used to tie up shirts when you buy them would work. I use them on the ends of my mutes, so I do not have to disassemble the piano if one of them falls.


Semipro Tech
#2130741 - 08/10/13 11:25 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: ando]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Major Major Offline
Full Member
Major Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by ando
Surely you'd only ever need help for this once. Once you see how the tech gets it out - you know what to do!


I agree, at least for my piano. Two set screws to remove then simply lift off. Install is just as easy if you are careful to make sure you lower the fallboard evenly so it does not bind and make sure it lowers onto the two hinge pins evenly. I understand the Yamahas don't use set screws so you just simply lift. As with any project, think about what you are going to do and then do it slowly.

As some of the experiended techs have noted, however, not all pianos are so easy. In addition, people ruin Phillips head screws all the time because they use an improperly sized screwdriver with a cheap tip. Strip out a set screw head and now you have an additional problem... not the end of the world, but definitely some extra work that demands some addtional skills and tools.

#2130743 - 08/10/13 11:29 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: bkw58]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Major Major Offline
Full Member
Major Major  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by bkw58
Pencil removal from the action has to be the number one most often service call from piano teachers.


Whew... that is good to know. I thought I was the only jughead on the planet that managed to make this blunder. Perhaps that is why there are no prior warnings given... a bit of creative marketing and revenue enhancement... wink

Last edited by PianoismyScrip; 08/10/13 11:30 AM.
#2130769 - 08/10/13 12:19 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: BDB]  
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,045
Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted by BDB
A simple way to avoid it is to fasten something onto the end of the pencil that you use at the piano. One of those ribbons used to tie up shirts when you buy them would work. I use them on the ends of my mutes, so I do not have to disassemble the piano if one of them falls.


Great idea!
More than once during a tuning I'd be down to my last two mutes and one would fall into the piano. Sometimes, never to be found! Where it would go...and the time it would take searching in vain...


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
#2130793 - 08/10/13 01:01 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,430
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,430
Oakland
If you get a lanyard with a bulldog clip at a convention, you can clip it onto the back of plain mutes, for use on grands. The problem is that most of them come with swivels these days, and they rattle, so I have to remove the swivel and sew the neck strap back on the plain clip.

I suppose I could put a screw eye and ribbon in the back of the mute, but too much weight causes them to flop over and come out when I am tuning.


Semipro Tech
#2130905 - 08/10/13 04:55 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
How about a rubber door stop? That would be hard to find its way into the deep, dark caverns inhabited by pencils and paperclips.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2131042 - 08/10/13 11:47 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: BDB]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,119
Maximillyan Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Maximillyan  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,119
KZ
Originally Posted by BDB
One of those ribbons used to tie up shirts when you buy them would work. I use them on the ends of my mutes, so I do not have to disassemble the piano if one of them falls.


When Max used the plectrum for a tuning, he had it's on a cord around the neck
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...uning%20a%20piano%20with%20mediator.html

#2131046 - 08/10/13 11:53 PM Re: Pen in Action [Re: bkw58]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,119
Maximillyan Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Maximillyan  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,119
KZ
Originally Posted by bkw58
Originally Posted by BDB
A simple way to avoid it is to fasten something onto the end of the pencil that you use at the piano. One of those ribbons used to tie up shirts when you buy them would work. I use them on the ends of my mutes, so I do not have to disassemble the piano if one of them falls.

Sometimes, never to be found!

I often lose the screws and washers when working with hammers. I advise all technicians to keep alert small flashlight and a magnetic screwdriver with a long stinger

#2131122 - 08/11/13 08:02 AM Re: Pen in Action [Re: Major Major]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,960
RonTuner Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonTuner  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,960
Chicagoland
I've come across "sluggish dampers" on two grands that turned out to be pencils... horizontal behind the damper wires! Obvious when you see them, but it took a while...

Ron Koval


Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Extremely emotional Romantic repertoire?
by Sean P. 10/23/17 11:27 AM
Piano string wrapped loop (with a touch of class)!!!
by tonyster220763. 10/23/17 10:25 AM
Time to tune the piano!
by AndreaH. 10/22/17 11:34 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,442
Posts2,666,705
Members89,024
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0