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Kawai at AMAC new products #2130654 08/10/13 05:23 AM
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"Its going to be a busy weekend for Kawai Australia as we prepare to launch 5 new digital pianos at this weekends AMAC trade show... Stay tuned for some exciting news!!!"

From the Kawai AU website and FaceBook page. Let's see what's coming...- according to James no MP's yet and probably at least one lightweight board, but what are the other 4 DP's about. New CA series ??

Last edited by JFP; 08/10/13 05:23 AM.
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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2130657 08/10/13 05:33 AM
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Five new digital pianos?

EDIT: Ah, I see...


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: Kawai James] #2130660 08/10/13 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Five new digital pianos?

EDIT: Ah, I see...


I don't; perhaps they mean that these are new to the Australian market , but not new models in a literal meaning . That would explain a lot. Am I correct ?

Last edited by JFP; 08/10/13 05:42 AM.
Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2130676 08/10/13 06:37 AM
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Partly correct, yes.

James
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"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: Kawai James] #2130699 08/10/13 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Partly correct, yes.


James is always a bit of a tease. smile

Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2130990 08/10/13 07:25 PM
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So ES100 is the new cheapie (AU$995). Do you have specs, James?



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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: voxpops] #2131009 08/10/13 08:23 PM
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I went over to the Kawai Australia Facebook page and saw a photo with some specs listed. The specs are a little hard to make out, but remarkably this new keyboard has 192 voice polyphony and manages to incorporate the Virtual Technician feature. I don't really see how easy it will be to navigate because the control panel is very similar to that of the Yamaha P-105, no frills! Also it uses HI (not PHI) and has 88 key sampling. The action read as Advanced Hammer Action VI (I think that was the Roman Numeral used), hard to see. It could have been just V for five because if I remember correctly they stopped at IV (4) before switching over to the RH actions. It was really hard to make out how many sounds but it was in the teens.

Would love to hear James's confirmations about the specs and the availability in the United States.

Last edited by Rhodie73; 08/10/13 08:27 PM.

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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131012 08/10/13 08:30 PM
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Thanks, Rhodie. Kind of a stripped-down ES6. Might be quite nice.


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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: Rhodie73] #2131013 08/10/13 08:32 PM
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KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131014 08/10/13 08:36 PM
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Stripped down ES6 is a good summary - same keyboard action and sampling quality, but with some different features, lower cost and weight.

I'm not sure I'm allowed to provide the full specs at this stage...

Cheers,
James
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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131022 08/10/13 09:04 PM
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Will this be available worldwide, James?


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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: voxpops] #2131034 08/10/13 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by voxpops
So ES100 is the new cheapie (AU$995). Do you have specs, James?


Wow, given the general high prices of DP's in Australia that bodes very well for the price of this machine in America (if it is released here). If so this could compete against the P105 and PX150 that are so often discussed lately. The ES6 was quite a machine. I could easily see a stripped down ES6 mopping the floor with the P105 and PX150. Of course I may be wrong in hoping that the US-AUS price differential holds. Kawai may instead be aiming at the P155's of the world and perhaps replacing the EP3?

Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: gvfarns] #2131037 08/10/13 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Originally Posted by voxpops
So ES100 is the new cheapie (AU$995). Do you have specs, James?


Wow, given the general high prices of DP's in Australia that bodes very well for the price of this machine in America (if it is released here). If so this could compete against the P105 and PX150 that are so often discussed lately. The ES6 was quite a machine. I could easily see a stripped down ES6 mopping the floor with the P105 and PX150. Of course I may be wrong in hoping that the US-AUS price differential holds. Kawai may instead be aiming at the P155's of the world and perhaps replacing the EP3?


Hmmm, I don't know about that, gvfarns. I find it difficult to picture a stripped down ES6 "mopping the floor" against Casio's new PX-X50 series. An ES7, okay...but not a stripped down ES6, and especially one that doesn't feature Kawai's newer RH(II) action. I may be biased, as an owner of the Casio PX-850, but damn if Casio didn't nail the action and touch sensitivity on a board that is grand or less.

I imagine Kawai will offer a competitive and attractive alternative, but I don't think Casio has anything to be overly worried about, just yet...at least in this market segment. Now Yamaha, with their rather dated P-105, they might be doing a bit of worrying.

Last edited by Tritium; 08/10/13 10:36 PM.
Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131040 08/10/13 10:33 PM
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Well, it just goes to prove that recycling is the future of the planet. wink

Even though I have a bit of a problem with the Casio AP sound, I recognize that they have done an amazing job with the action and dynamics, particularly given the weight and the price point. They really do seem to be the current innovators. I wonder whether Kawai can make serious inroads in the lower price sector based on older technology.

On the other hand, the AHA action wasn't bad, and some HI models sounded OK.

Last edited by voxpops; 08/10/13 10:35 PM.

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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131043 08/10/13 10:50 PM
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Just thinking out loud. Now that Kawai has a 33lbs chassis, is there anything stopping them shoving their top samples, resonance DSP and RHII action into it?

I thought not.

What was that? The marketing department says no? Really?


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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131092 08/11/13 02:53 AM
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You know, I don't care anymore. As long as most new Roland, Yammy , Kawai , Kurzweil products keep on underwhelming us with each new product launch by playing the minimal increments/ recycling game (VPC excluded), its starting to be time to look at the alternatives. I am seriously eyeing the Physis Line and watch Casio making inroads. Perhaps VAX will keep its promise and launch an inexpensive controller.

Verdict is still out on the new ES, but if it doesn't even have at least the already aging PHI , but utilizes the very old HI of yesterday, then what's going on ?? The new MP's will be awesome yes and the new Roland and Yammie line probably too, but it takes sooooooo long, that stuffing already available and milked technology like UHPI in a cheaper board wouldn't hurt in the meantime to keep people interested...

For now let's wait till the confirmed specs pop up.

Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: voxpops] #2131120 08/11/13 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by voxpops
Just thinking out loud. Now that Kawai has a 33lbs chassis, is there anything stopping them shoving their top samples, resonance DSP and RHII action into it?

I thought not.

What was that? The marketing department says no? Really?
The action is one of the heaviest components of a keyboard. So I would not be surprised if the RHII action would add substantially to the weight. In addition, a heavier keyboard mechanism may require a more substantial (i.e. heavier) chassis in order to support it. The higher end mechanism may also be deeper, therefore requiring the chassis to be deeper (and therefore, again, heavier). So it is not impossible than an RHII based system just can't be much lighter than the current RHII models.

But it would be interesting to see the MP10 piano sound put into an ES100 keyboard/chassis. The additional electronics probably wouldn't add much weight. It would be an interesting marketing question. Would that sell at, say, $2000? Would people look at it as a lightweight lesser-action version of the $2500 MP10, in which case $2000 may seem like a decent value for those who simply can't deal with the weight of the MP10? Or would people see it next to the similar looking ES100 and not see why the better quality sound would justify going from $1k to $2k?

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
The action is one of the heaviest components of a keyboard. So I would not be surprised if the RHII action would add substantially to the weight. In addition, a heavier keyboard mechanism may require a more substantial (i.e. heavier) chassis in order to support it. The higher end mechanism may also be deeper, therefore requiring the chassis to be deeper (and therefore, again, heavier). So it is not impossible than an RHII based system just can't be much lighter than the current RHII models.

RH was the direct replacement for AHA. The AHA action used to be in Kawai's 45+lbs boards. The current ES7 with RHII weighs <49lbs. I doubt there is much mechanical (or weight) difference between AHA and RH. I suspect that is also why the ES100 weighs 33lbs and not 25lbs, like the P-105 and PX-150/350. I would therefore conclude that the new chassis is perfectly capable of housing RHII. Of course, I'm speculating.... but with good grounds! wink

Alternatively, just stick a third sensor in AHA. The AHA (IV F???) action in the MP5 was quite good, so whatever AHA V F is, I doubt it's really too different from RH. In fact I had to do an action repair in both an MP5 and MP6, and the only difference I remember (although that's not saying much!) was the way the keys were hinged at the back.


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Or would people see it next to the similar looking ES100 and not see why the better quality sound would justify going from $1k to $2k?

Not those for whom these things are important. Every gigging player can (and does) differentiate between the features, functions and sounds of competing boards.

Last edited by voxpops; 08/11/13 03:46 PM. Reason: Got a fact wrong

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Re: Kawai at AMAC new products [Re: JFP] #2131168 08/11/13 09:17 AM
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I think all previous models in the ES series had built in speakers, I wonder if this does? I'd also hope that it has standard MIDI ports, and not (just) USB.

Back to the idea of a $2k version that had the sounds of the MP10... if there is a doubt that there would be a market for such a model, I'd like to see companies get a little creative with these decisions. Why not a "kickstarter" approach, where if they get, say, 500 or 1000 people who would commit to paying $2k for such a model, they would have enough "security" to actually try a production run and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Back to the idea of a $2k version that had the sounds of the MP10... if there is a doubt that there would be a market for such a model, I'd like to see companies get a little creative with these decisions. Why not a "kickstarter" approach, where if they get, say, 500 or 1000 people who would commit to paying $2k for such a model, they would have enough "security" to actually try a production run and see what happens.

Hold on a moment... that's way too innovative, Scott! Actually, it does have some merit, but I would have thought that Nord had already done the market research for them. For some reason, the major DP manufacturers seem to think that size is everything. Sure, they can stick a heavier/better action in a big board, but for some reason they'll compromise until the cows come home on sound in their lighter boards. Nord has proven that there is a colossal demand among gigging musicians for the highest quality sound in the lightest possible chassis.

If I'm going to commit to a kickstarter project, I'd want to be listened to... I'm not convinced that what I'd get at the end of the day is what I thought I was signing up for.


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