Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Members Recordings - Pianist Corner It's another improvisation I'm afraid

My question is not "is this good", but rather if there's any point continuing doing what I do. Um...as with all music the true impression isn't garnered without listening to the whole thing but...well, um, if you follow the link you'll see why I don't expect *anyone* to do that http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bOodbJ1Igbc&t=23589 I tried to get across the notion of thinking of home in a rather...well, hostile environment...you know, bittersweet wholesome...ness... In everything past 6:46 the theme really starts distending (though it does go for a few more minutes...but then it came before and the like...urgh, I don't know )so...if you don't shut it off by then, don't bother with the rest Um...I don't know....I try not to be an insecure duckling but...I mean, if there's *no* point in doing this rubbish then there's a chance that should I redirect my energies I might do something...meaningful? I don't know...um...just...yes, I suppose it's insecurity about purpose; I don't care if I'm just terrible, the direction matters to me though...advice would be lovely Criticism would be lovely also...I don't know. Thank you for reading down here; I hope you're well, happy and have a lovely day and night.
FSO
Xxx
P.S. Sorry for...yes, all the things I should be sorry for in this instance

"Deffles" here. I will say the title and description do not invite the most confidence, and listening as I am listening, you need not be in such self deprecating despair. Improvisation is a special realm, and it has always been my most natural reaction to sitting down at a keyboard. Whether exploring technical or harmonic possibilities, or simply getting lost in the wanderings of an open structure, I think it is an essential element in the life of a musician, though oft neglected it may be. There is a lot I could say about all that...but listening as I am, I do see value in what you are doing, and would encourage you to continue. And that not merely for your own mind, I find it on a night as tonight very welcome listening. I am quite used to unrelenting walls of sound and tend to gravitate towards them, so I can well relate to the honesty of the tension/release found in your music. Yes, keep going.

Aww! Deffles, you remembered! <3 I, too, find improvisation to be the most natural way of musicing (it's a word now...right? ); the idea of doing the same thing over and over seems so difficult and alien...but, um, that's what discipline's for, isn't it? That's where all my worry comes from (well...it's probably something to do with my father or some nonsense, but anyway - ); surely there's a fine line between being improvisational at heart and just being lazy...or, at least, too carefree. Besides, one may be improvisational at heart but genuinely just be rubbish at it...so...um...thank you; your words meant a lot to me...well, mean a lot to me, and I'll try and be less of a silly sausage in future (though, undoubtedly, I will fail at that {too } )...thank you, really.
Xxxx

FSO... Is this video 12 hours of you improvising at the piano?


-J

....Well, not quite that long; let's not surrender to hyperbole...but yes

Improvisation is a part of me.

I do not care about the validation*, although it IS nice to get it, but instead ask myself.

What do I want from it? (self realization)
Am I getting that? yes
What would I be doing if not that? (watching Elimidate or Room Raiders and eating corn chips**)

Forrest

* Do a Google Search on the following phrase 'The Validation Manifesto' and look for the result from 'Stank'

cynical yet spot on - I will not link to it from here, since it uses harsh language to make a good point.

** not really *cough*.. as I've NEVER EVER ever done anything so completely without merit *cough*

All right, let me make the correction for beet: Is this video 11 hours, 39 minutes, and 15 seconds of you improvising at the piano?

Yeah, I exaggerated by only 3%!

Anyway, FSO, I can't say that I really *listened* to any large part of it. But it certainly wasn't the uninteresting pretty treacle one usually hears. There were actual ideas here, presented with real force.

You're clearly capable of generating ideas, like a volcano generating magma. Now comes the real work: can you shape these ideas into something enduring?

-J

FSO, one thing I was curious about -- I briefly checked out a number of your other improvisations, and a lot of them (including this one) seem to allude to Russian subject matter of different sorts. Since you are presently living in England, is there a reason for that -- i.e., do you or your parents/grandparents originally come from Russia? Just curious.

I confess to being about, oh, 178 degrees or so apart from you on the pursuit of improvisation. I really LIKE working from scores, and doing things over and over again -- and I couldn't imagine myself creating stream-of-consciousness soundscapes out of whole cloth -- which, to gather from the number of improvisations you have committed to YouTube, appears to be an all-consuming interest for you. The closest I've seen to what you do is the "jazz" pianist Marilyn Crispell -- and I put the "jazz" in quotation marks because her style is much more free form -- sometimes very lyrical, sometimes jagged and dissonant -- but always with logical associative referents. You might check her out, if you're so inclined.

Um...okay, beet: I can't, no. I mean, it used to be what I tried to do but...I took a knock. I mean, my whole musical life (a mere 8 years, beginning by playing a piano in the school hall, being thrown off whenever caught, and not being allowed by my father to learn music as it is "impractical"; um, it wasn't until maybe half a year after playing that I learnt of classical music [having, until that point, found music rather empty and not paying it any attention], by which point I'd already...well, as "they" put it, poisoned myself with dissonance, which obviously required firm stamping out) people have criticised my compositions; after a particularly vicious verbal barrage I kind of...well...snapped a bit (not in a violent way though ). I've not "composed" since; general ideas and putting them together in my head before sitting down, yes, but, um, notating anything? No. Still, the impressions rush through me like...some kind of simile, but I'm not a musician, certainly I'm no composer and my technique is, how the French say, marred I'm a chronic impressionist and maybe I always was; my compositions must have been slated for some reason. Um...ideas, hmm, maybe (thank you though, you really are sweet you know ^>^ ), force and passion I have but...um...something enduring? I'd love few things more...really few, actually; to be able to touch someone after I've passed and maybe, just maybe, heal them if they're hurting...to add some kind of true transcendental beauty to the universe rather than just sponging it all up? Nothing could be better, really...um...I'm just not good enough. But isn't that what we all want? I don't know...I don't wish to speak for anyone but...is it not? Isn't that why we try? And why we can't not? (Woodog, I think that inadvertently answers all your questions from my perspective I'll be sure to read the manifesto, don't you fret; thanks for the suggestion!) To try and reach that elusive pool that holds even just a glimmer of emotion, whichever one it may be, and distil it into music so that anyone can hear it...so difficult to reach though, so slippery and far away; the trek shrouded in a foggy haze-like smokey mire...some people manage to stride through confidently though whilst so many just stumble around in circles... Um...anyway, short answer; I really don't think so...I hope I can and so...well, I ask for help along the way, just to make sure I'm facing the right direction, even if I'll never make it. As I mentioned, your words meant a lot. Um...Tim! That's an exceptional observation! Just...um...staggered...frankly I...well, I was born in Germany, lived there briefly before moving to Scotland, then England...um...I have no Russian relatives or anything of the sort...but I just feel *so* Slavic...I always have, ever since I first learnt about Russia when I was, what, seven or eight years old? I don't know...when *do* people learn about other countries generally? Just...without going into my whole belief system, which is probably the most simply complex thing I've ever developed, it can make sense to me. Um...I feel it's just where I'm from, you know? Maybe you don't...knowing without reason to know, just...a feeling Also, the Cyrillic Dreams are Bulgarian; I was having particularly vivid dreams that presented themselves as a tapestry of Bulgarian words (Bulgarian being the nationality of my best friend's only real romantic love)...um...I just...I've read so many documents on Russian lifestyles, etiquette of past and present, history and so forth...um...it's just slightly different from a fascination and I can't *explain* how Amazing perception though....I'll keep my eye on that Um...yes, we really are different in our approach; I can perhaps recognise how working on the same thing and improving it could be incredibly rewarding...but yeesh! I can't manage it; more power to you! I keep Youtube as a sort of public diary; I can access it from anywhere in the world (as can my best friend and anyone with a weak grasp on what they *should* be listening to ) and...sort of feel how I did at that time, by listening. It also helps to see some kind of progression; it's nice to look back a year or so and see how I did things differently, hopefully worse, usually I pessimistically focus on how much better I *was* (not that my uneducated mind could really tell )...um...I think it's the kind of thing real musicians (who improvise, of course) should do...it'd be interesting to hear...maybe I'm wrong As it turns out, I *was* so inclined and have been listening whilst typing this tediously long response; so a fair listen Specifically, her Vignettes..."album"? She's quite alright; I'm sure I wouldn't agree with her being labelled a jazz musician either; very good at playing the same pitch I note (or is that; the same note, I pitch? )...gosh, this reply really got out of hand I feel, um...thank you, for the interest and...well, for the important correction, Polyphonist I mean, without that...well, it'd just be a shambles...ta, all!
<3
Xxxx

Try paragraphs next time.

Yes - in addition to paragraphs, please try canning the "stream of consciousness" writing style - along with all the "ums" - and perhaps more folks will actually read your posts. Quite frankly, I simply can't get past the first few sentences. Sorry.

It's a little like listening to an overexcited ten-year-old who runs their mouth faster than they can formulate their thoughts, so that what you hear is a similar jumble of incoherence.

I am coming to FSO's defense, not that she needs it; rather, to give an alternate voice of explication to her consistent explanations regarding her locution (the word "locution" is bold because it's a vocabulary word, people. Look it up if you need to... (Haven't you gotten it by now, readers???)), and, as such, by way of appreciation: mine clearly stated, and I hope that others can learn to hear her voice, which, much like modern music for some, might be an acquired taste.

Here is a very personal statement: I am slow. Seriously--I really am slow. I think slowly. I work slowly. And, I read slowly--really, really slowly. Reading slowly, for an English Lit. major (as I was at one point in my life (M.A., eventually, thankyouverymuch)), is a bit of a detriment (try taking a Dickens seminar, and see if you can tuck under your belt five novels in one semester! (I missed one: Old Curiosity Shop, indeed, and I still have bad dreams about taking the final, from time to time.)). But as I have aged, I have also learned to accept myself, AND, in accepting my, um, some would say, disability of being a slow reader--I have come to a conclusion. That is, authors choose words carefully. Not only that, but they present them carefully, too.

Compare and contrast: both my wife and my son read in chunks. They take in whole sentences, paragraphs, and, it seems, pages at a time. They are very smart and very quick. But guess what? They don't read every word. Nor, do they appreciate every nuance.

What I discovered in reflecting on my "disability" was this: I became an appreciator of form and style. Being slow, in order to maintain some semblance of actual comprehension, I needed to read EVERY WORD of every work that I read. At some point in accepting this realization, I had the epiphany that authors do not write in chunks. They may THINK in chunks, but they write in words. And they place these words, word by word, in a certain order, and for a certain reason. They even rework the words, to get the words in the exactly right place exactly. On the surface, this is called, "voice." But, it has a deeper meaning, as well... ...A much, much deeper meaning, if you care to take time to study it.

Can you appreciate literature? Who has read James Joyce? Who has read Thomas Pynchon? Who has read Tom Wolfe? These people had a lot to say, and they said it in unconventional ways. But they said it. And people read it. And people who took the time to get it, got it.

FSO is like that, to me. She has a style. It is worthy of appreciation, as much as any person who stands in front of you is worth acknowledging, hearing, understanding and appreciating. Instead of asking FSO to change, I would suggest that readers SLOW DOWN and read her words, which are full of life and meaning. FSO is talking when she writes. (I have often wondered if she is using voice recognition software to make her posts. Nonetheless,--) Hear the pitch. Hear the cadences. Imagine the dialect.

Or, not. If FSO is not your cup of tea, leave her alone. But, please don't ask her to change.

FSO has a lot to say--in words AND music! In my opinion, she adds much to the discourse, here. I choose to read and appreciate what she says.

But I am slow.

(I also take time to smell roses. And honeysuckle. And, believe it or not, dandelions, which are lovely, soft, and sweet. "Little mums," I've heard them called, with tremendous health-giving properties, which, when you look at them that way...)

XXXOOO,
--Andy

FWIW, I too am slow in many ways including reading, and before any of the criticism came up I had read every word of FSO's post, with no trouble, just as I have read every word of Andy's reply. Truth be told, I was curious to see what the dialog would be interacting with the thoughts, and shocked to instead see the criticism.

I think Fluttershy (FSO) is doing amazing things with these improvs. The trouble is only that one needs to commit a significant amount of time to get through them.
I'm also an improvisor, currently doing more jazz than other genres, but really find that what she is doing is musically rewarding.

FSO, Keep it up, and I'm sure you'll be touching many more lives in positive ways with these contributions.

I'm glad I came back to this forum--it was a bit dead for years and now there seem to be some good things going on again.

Peace

Pfft It doesn't matter...it does confuse me, admittedly, but it doesn't upset me too much when people don't read my jumble of incoherence I'm sure Bernhard felt similarly to those that you mentioned, Cinnybear, when facing critique; I mean, um, tea isn't for everyone. Some people prefer trowels of tea, I'm sure...um...thank you, for the ripost; likely, left to my own devices, I would have mumbled some form of apology, felt bad for a few moments and moved on with my life (reflecting, perhaps for the time whose count matters not, briefly, perchance, on how much of life truly is just another repetition of the same tired principles, before becoming distracted by something shiny)...but thank you, it's nice ^>^ Slowness is a virtue and, frankly, I'm pleased that you've come to terms with possessing it! I mean, um, appreciating life is *the point* of life...possibly Either way, you don't listen to Beethoven sped up, so why hope for your life to be so? Anywho, negative criticism (for though my words may be incomprehensible for some, I at least know what the words I use mean...grumble grumble... I mean...I *do* sort of take a perverse pleasure in reading what people are *actually* writing; with regard to comprehensibility, this dichotomy that appears to occasionally form between style and substance seems, to me, the most absurd) helps us grow, no? So...in a way, casting someone's style into the fires of condemnation may more be a merely frustrated form of trying to be nice? Um...I will say, my thoughts are quite formulated prior to attempting to pen (key?) them; other thoughts simply manage to spring up whilst the arduous task of typing (it was type, not key ) keeps me occupied...and if I were to only type what first appeared firm...well, I couldn't justifiably type anything; such self-censorship is the only logical course to take...unless you are more of a gardener than architect; some will type things...I mean, they will have objective...objects that they try to put forth for everyone to see and, hopefully, appreciate...but, um, some of us will express which, woefully, does not always come in the easiest to swallow morsels. It's messy, indirect, perhaps disjointed, but does not necessarily lack formulation or in any way infer a total disregard for relevance (for instance, I just realised I could wear my keyring and not need to take a bag to store my keys within later...um...these thoughts are irrelevant and, save for this exception which proves the rule {a fairly odd phrase, I find, that indicates it's own erroneous nature [this little diversion in and of itself being of point which, unfortunately hasn't been explained yet (but shall )] regardless of how it's read}); instead, it tries to convey something more...I mean, um, the tone with which you say something matters; it changes the *meaning* of what you say...so, naturally, sometimes you must destabilise what you seem to be saying to convey further intent; erroneous as it may seem (see? I even made it easy by repeating a word {which I loathe, really}), sometimes one must not say what they mean to convey what they mean. Um....diversion aside for those who lack physical impairment (such as currawong dearest) my style shouldn't be illegible. I'm sorry that it is, but...maybe, dare I suggest, that rather than my writing it incorrectly...you're not...reading it right?? Um...I won't go on the stand and insist that, of course, but, um, if an English Literature degree holder (masterfully done, of course) finds it appreciable...well...then I can't feel *too* bad(ly...adverbs people...really ) about myself...in this regard I'm not so sure how much I agree with my having a lot to say about music; pretty much *everyone* here is far more esteemed than me, but (which means and, by the way, merely with a negative implication; implications being related to the conveyance of meaning which is not technically stipulated {repetitious is life } ) I certainly appreciate what you've done for me. Thank you. Deffles dearest; thank you too (seems weak compared with that internet version of a treatise but, frankly, I've got to get going {keyring } ). Sorry for any offence my condescension may have caused, it certainly wasn't intended; bear in mind that it is, if read as such, only condescension...um....I'd never patronise anyone!
FSO
Xxx

Mea culpa. I sincerely apologize to FSO. While her writing style is not my cup of tea, it is MY problem - not her's.

Cheers !!

I doubt whether one in ten who start FSO's posts finish reading them. I think it's really a question of courtesy and one should not to expect anyone to try and read posts that look like that.

I cannot recall a single poster at PW whose posts are so difficult, close to impossible IMO, to read. One should not have to read a post as if one is trying to translate from a foreign language one is unfamiliar with. Typically FSO gets far more comments on the difficulty of reading her posts than on the content of the posts.

I think its a question of courtesy to your intended readers. If you really expect or want people to read your thoughts you should take the time and effort to make it somewhat, uhm, palatable for human consumption.