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Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vas] #2123433
07/26/13 04:12 PM
07/26/13 04:12 PM
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UK
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spanishbuddha Online content
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Originally Posted by Vas
Originally Posted by andal
How does the action compare to Roland's PHA-III ?

The answer to this Q is critical to me.

In that case you will want to try it yourself, and not rely on the (different) opinions you get here.

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Re: VPC1 Review [Re: John M.] #2123462
07/26/13 05:34 PM
07/26/13 05:34 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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John M., thank you for the update - I'm glad you eventually found the source of the problem.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Ojustaboo] #2123465
07/26/13 05:40 PM
07/26/13 05:40 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo
Personally I think Kawai missed out on a huge part of the market with the VPC1 design.

Midi controllers WITH really nice keyboards are virtually non existent (not talking about using a synth/workstation as a midi controller).

The VPC1 with pitch bend and mod wheels, around 20 assignable buttons and a few knobs/sliders, transport buttons like on the MP10 and I'm sure they would have at least tripled their market.

I bought the MP10 purely to use like that, I'm not really interested in the on board sounds etc at all.

Had the VPC1 had that I would have gone for it with the 3 sensor keybed.

best

Joe



Joe, you make a strong point, however from the outset, the VPC concept was to keep the board as minimalistic as possible - no additional knobs, buttons, or faders. While there are certainly players who would have appreciated this additional functionality, we also believe the decision to market the VPC1 as 'purely piano' controller is also appreciated by the growing software piano community.

I agree that there is a market for a flexible MIDI master keyboard with an excellent action, so we'll see what the future holds. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vas] #2123470
07/26/13 05:46 PM
07/26/13 05:46 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by Vas
Sam Ash and Guitar Center are the only big music stores here in the Tampa Bay Area.

I searched VPC1 and both stored had no response. frown


The VPC1 is available from Kraft and Sweetwater.

Due to the nature of the product (i.e. requires a computer, software, monitors etc.), it's rather difficult for Kawai's more acoustic piano oriented dealers to have a demo model out on the shop floor. However, most stores will be happy to order the board if the customer expresses an interest.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Kawai James] #2123472
07/26/13 05:53 PM
07/26/13 05:53 PM
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StarvingLion Offline
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"we also believe the decision to market the VPC1 as 'purely piano' controller is also appreciated."

Obviously, Kawai wants to eventually sell the software for its proprietary board as well. That is the fly in the ointment with this so-called "user chooses" business model. Really, in the end it becomes a laughably expensive solution for the user.

If a Piano is a Piano then what is the purpose of just selling a controller? Put high quality samples in the darn thing and be done with it. High performance computers and audio interfaces are not cheap.


I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: StarvingLion] #2123475
07/26/13 05:57 PM
07/26/13 05:57 PM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
If a Piano is a Piano then what is the purpose of just selling a controller? Put high quality samples in the darn thing and be done with it. High performance computers and audio interfaces are not cheap.


Choice?

Also, what do you mean by "a Piano is a Piano"?

Are you seriously suggesting that all pianos sound and feel the same?



Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: StarvingLion] #2123484
07/26/13 06:19 PM
07/26/13 06:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Vancouver, B.C.
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
"we also believe the decision to market the VPC1 as 'purely piano' controller is also appreciated."

Obviously, Kawai wants to eventually sell the software for its proprietary board as well. That is the fly in the ointment with this so-called "user chooses" business model. Really, in the end it becomes a laughably expensive solution for the user.

If a Piano is a Piano then what is the purpose of just selling a controller? Put high quality samples in the darn thing and be done with it. High performance computers and audio interfaces are not cheap.




  • Schimmel Upright
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Any issues or concerns are piped to /dev/null
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: StarvingLion] #2123532
07/26/13 07:51 PM
07/26/13 07:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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gvfarns Offline
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Not being able to find a VPC1 to demo the action shouldn't be a problem. It feels the same as an MP10, CA63, CA93, CA15, or CA13. Many Kawai dealers will have one of these available that you can get your fingers on.

Regarding the pitch and mod wheels, they are such useless additions to a digital piano intended for piano work. I would have been very annoyed indeed if Kawai had added them. That trash clutters the space on my MP8 reminding me that Kawai intended it for a particular type of stage performer, rather than a normal pianist. I have to think that people who do a lot of pitch and mod wheel work don't typically need a realistic piano action. For them any old controller, even with a synth action, works. I suppose we could ask Kawai to put pads on it too. That would make some people happy, I guess. Aren't there piano-like items out there with pads, wheels, aftertouch, keys that light up, rhythms for the background, and other non-piano features?

If you want all the blinking lights and gizmos and still want a piano-like action, the MP10 works well and isn't all that much more expensive. The point of the VPC1 was to give a good piano action with no extraneous garbage. With the VPC1 Kawai even did away with the power cable. My only bone is that I would have liked it cheaper. Well, that or the GF thing (probably couldn't have both).

Last edited by gvfarns; 07/26/13 08:02 PM.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2123541
07/26/13 08:26 PM
07/26/13 08:26 PM
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Posts: 179
Western MA, USA
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Tritium Offline
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I have a dream that one day StarvingLion will find his beloved acoustic piano...thus ending his tired (and annoying) diatribes against Digital Pianos, their manufacturer's, and their owner's.

And the dream goes something like this...



[Linked Image]

Last edited by Tritium; 07/26/13 08:38 PM.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2123557
07/26/13 08:56 PM
07/26/13 08:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
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gvfarns, I'm inclined to agree with you.

The VPC1 focuses on the keyboard action, and nothing else - most people get it.

If we had included a pitchbend and modulation wheel, maybe some folks would have been happy, but then there would have been a group saying "OMG! Where are the zone faders!?", put those on, then another group would say "What about my transport controls?!", add those and another group would chip in with "Where are my pads?!"...it just becomes a never ending list.

Keep it simple - it's a piano controller, and nothing else.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2123562
07/26/13 09:05 PM
07/26/13 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,224
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Strange, isn't it. I've never seen an acoustic piano with pitch bend (though John Cage might have wanted that). Nor a mod wheel. Nor zone faders. An instrument with any of those is simply not a piano.

Bless Kawai for leaving them out. smile

(And curse Kawai for not releasing the VPC five years sooner. I'd have preferred it to my Clavinova purchase.) frown

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: gvfarns] #2123598
07/26/13 10:59 PM
07/26/13 10:59 PM
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Vas Offline
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Not being able to find a VPC1 to demo the action shouldn't be a problem. It feels the same as an MP10, CA63, CA93, CA15, or CA13. Many Kawai dealers will have one of these available that you can get your fingers on.


Thanks. This will be very helpful.

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: StarvingLion] #2123660
07/27/13 03:03 AM
07/27/13 03:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 100
UK
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willf Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by StarvingLion
"we also believe the decision to market the VPC1 as 'purely piano' controller is also appreciated."

Obviously, Kawai wants to eventually sell the software for its proprietary board as well. That is the fly in the ointment with this so-called "user chooses" business model. Really, in the end it becomes a laughably expensive solution for the user.

If a Piano is a Piano then what is the purpose of just selling a controller? Put high quality samples in the darn thing and be done with it. High performance computers and audio interfaces are not cheap.



Any chance of your postings being consistent? From another thread:

Originally Posted by StarvingLion
VPC1 + Pianoteq

Its the V-piano without the obsolescence and unfixable modeling errors of the V-piano. And it has a better keyboard. Forget about samples. They have never worked, and never will.


Last edited by willf; 07/27/13 03:09 AM.

willf
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2123663
07/27/13 03:33 AM
07/27/13 03:33 AM
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StarvingLion Offline
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I endorse the VPC1 for physical modeling software because that pathway deals with limitations that matter for classical music. Samples have been a dead end for ages -- better sample libraries add more realism to *simplistic* patterns of input from the keyboard. Would be nice to have a key bed like the Mp10 but my P-105 is perfectly up to the job for basic learning of notes too. You would think everyone here chasing software piano sample libraries are a bunch of Pollini's.

Last edited by StarvingLion; 07/27/13 03:36 AM.

I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: MacMacMac] #2123665
07/27/13 03:47 AM
07/27/13 03:47 AM
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Posts: 184
Norfolk UK
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Ojustaboo Offline
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Last edited by Ojustaboo; 07/29/13 06:48 PM.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2123684
07/27/13 06:32 AM
07/27/13 06:32 AM
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Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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On the surface your argument (regarding the cost of sliders/knobs/wheels) seems reasonable. But if you understand the economics of manufacturing and distribution ... it just doesn't fly.

A piano is not just 88 keys, pedals, cabinet, and electronics. It's also the marketing and the engineering and the supply chain activities and the distribution channels. It's supplier qualification and parts qualification. It's warranty service and parts depots. It's regulatory compliance and labor law compliance and intellectual property law. It's everything ... even the employee parking lot.

Things aren't as simple as they appear.

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: MacMacMac] #2123796
07/27/13 11:50 AM
07/27/13 11:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Things aren't as simple as they appear.


This.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2123805
07/27/13 12:23 PM
07/27/13 12:23 PM
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Scott Hamlin Offline
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The fact that it doesn't have all those controls tells me Kawai does a good job keeping scope creep in check. smile

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2123831
07/27/13 01:34 PM
07/27/13 01:34 PM
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Yup, controls add to cost. Look at the Physis K4 with its factory price of € 2195 (street price yet unknown ).

Re: VPC1 Review [Re: Vid] #2124091
07/28/13 04:27 AM
07/28/13 04:27 AM
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Italy
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Not so much indeed. With Arduino and few other electronic stuff, you could make a full midi controller with 20 or 30 usd.


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
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