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16 bit vs 24 bit
#2121805 07/23/13 06:28 AM
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Is there really a big difference between the two?

A noticeable difference.

I am on the brink of getting a behringer q502 to replace my integrated soundcard on my desktop pc.

But the behringer is only 16bit. My soundcard natively supports 192000khz 24bit I believe. (Although when recording I'm not sure, minihost records at 44100khz and I've no idea how to change this)

Am I just better off with the integrated sound card? Should I just get an amp or something for the integrated?





Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121816 07/23/13 07:46 AM
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I believe you are better off with the integrated (pci-based) sound card. I use the M-AUDIO 192, and it's -rock- solid. In terms of 16 bit vs. 24 bit, I'm not sure if there's a perceivable difference; though, some say there is.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121821 07/23/13 08:21 AM
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IMHO, perceived sound quality in desktop/project studio recording systems is far more strongly determined by factors like the quality of analog circuitry, A/D/A conversion, and system clocks, than by the choice of 16- versus 24-bit depth in sampling.

I personally would not choose an interface based primarily on whether it employed 24-bit sampling.

Cheers,

B.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121822 07/23/13 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Mta88
Is there really a big difference between the two?

A noticeable difference.

I am on the brink of getting a behringer q502 to replace my integrated soundcard on my desktop pc.

But the behringer is only 16bit. My soundcard natively supports 192000khz 24bit I believe. (Although when recording I'm not sure, minihost records at 44100khz and I've no idea how to change this)

Am I just better off with the integrated sound card? Should I just get an amp or something for the integrated?




If you are planning on doing any editing, go for 24 bit. The noise floor is vastly lower.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mwm #2121825 07/23/13 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mwm
Originally Posted by Mta88
Is there really a big difference between the two?

A noticeable difference.

I am on the brink of getting a behringer q502 to replace my integrated soundcard on my desktop pc.

But the behringer is only 16bit. My soundcard natively supports 192000khz 24bit I believe. (Although when recording I'm not sure, minihost records at 44100khz and I've no idea how to change this)

Am I just better off with the integrated sound card? Should I just get an amp or something for the integrated?




If you are planning on doing any editing, go for 24 bit. The noise floor is vastly lower.


This.

If you were recording a solo piano piece, it wouldn't make a lot of difference, but if you plan to do multi-tracked arrangements with lots of different instruments, you want 24-bit resolution. It's important to reduce strange aliasing effects in dense mixes and it tends to result in a clearer, more defined mix. Even if you convert the final 24-bit mixdown to 16-bit, it will still sound better than if you recorded all tracks and mixed it in 16-bit. I've experienced this many times myself.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
ando #2121829 07/23/13 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mta88
Is there really a big difference between the two?

If done well there is no noticeable difference between 16 bit sampling and analog unless you turn the volume *way* up during a quiet passage.

Originally Posted by ando
... you want 24-bit resolution. It's important to reduce strange aliasing effects in dense mixes and it tends to result in a clearer, more defined mix.

Aliasing is a function of sampling rate and the design of the pre-sampling anti-aliasing low pass filter, not the sample resolution.

And as was stated, 24 bit is not guaranteed to have a lower noise floor.

That said I'd probably opt for the interface that can do higher sampling rates and 24 bit depth as it likely has a higher quality A/D converter and associated analog components.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121844 07/23/13 09:34 AM
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Amazing there are still 16 bitters around in 2013. That said - 24 bit has simply more dynamic range and mixing signals in 24 bit is way better than in 16 , considering rounding and dithering errors / noise. Of course there are good 16 bit converters and bad 24 bit ones. It's not only in the numbers, but also in the quality of the components (DAC / ADC / Filters etc). In general I'd say - go for 24 bit conversion and in software DAW settings preferably 32 bit floating point.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121854 07/23/13 09:57 AM
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I hear a difference on multitimbral instruments such as a piano--in the primary sound of the notes, in the sympathetic resonance, in the sense of the room.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2121859 07/23/13 10:24 AM
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16 bits is CD quality. 24 is better. Software piano samples come in 24 bits so they are fully capable of using the difference between the two. Are our ears good enough to hear the difference? In blind testing, no.

Having said that, I use 24 bits in my own playing. Superstition, I guess. smile

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
dewster #2121867 07/23/13 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by Mta88
Is there really a big difference between the two?

If done well there is no noticeable difference between 16 bit sampling and analog unless you turn the volume *way* up during a quiet passage.

Originally Posted by ando
... you want 24-bit resolution. It's important to reduce strange aliasing effects in dense mixes and it tends to result in a clearer, more defined mix.

Aliasing is a function of sampling rate and the design of the pre-sampling anti-aliasing low pass filter, not the sample resolution.

And as was stated, 24 bit is not guaranteed to have a lower noise floor.

That said I'd probably opt for the interface that can do higher sampling rates and 24 bit depth as it likely has a higher quality A/D converter and associated analog components.


Yeah, you're right, I should have been more precise about that. Most boxes that are limited to 16-bit will only run 44.1kHz or 48kHz sampling rates, and you can definitely get aliasing at those sampling rates. I run 24-bit at 96kHz. The 24-bit resolution is certainly clearer in a dense mix when coupled with the higher sampling rate.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2122388 07/24/13 03:37 PM
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Ok then.. that settles that lol... no to 16 bit..

Currently in the process of selling some old stuff to get the cash for a decent focusrite... considering the 2i2 because it's not that bad of a price.. selling 129US brand new on amazon down from 150US.



Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2122389 07/24/13 03:38 PM
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How does focusrite compare to say the New tascam 24bit/192Khz interface and the Presonus Audio box... I gather they are all very similiar?

Focusrite seems to be the most trusted brand of the three from what ive read.


Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2122498 07/24/13 08:06 PM
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I have the 6i6 and couldn't be happier. 2i2 essentially is the same platform so you are good. except it only has TRS monitor outputs so make sure your speaker can be connected. 6i6 has the S/PDIF which make things easier.

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2122902 07/25/13 05:07 PM
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Can't I just use the TRS to RCA cables from Hosa on amazon?


Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2122906 07/25/13 05:09 PM
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Currently in the process of selling some video cards.. If they get sold imma get my focusrite. smile

I really don't wanna cheap out with the USB interface. It seems to be important to have a good interface and I'm very picky with sound. If I get a cheaper behringer I'd probably regret it. Will build my setup in parts.

Next step is studio monitors smile

Thanks for the info guys


Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2123395 07/26/13 03:58 PM
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Ok I finally got my video card sold.. Should be done by the end of the week..

There is a Prsonus Audiobox used for 85US selling on amazon.

and then there is the Focusrite 2i2 brand new selling for 129US.

Is the Focusrite really that great and worth the extra cash?

gotta a make a decision quickly before the presonus sells.



Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2123396 07/26/13 04:00 PM
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I'm thinking the focusrite might be worth to get it brand new.. No idea if the presonus is in good condition or not.

Ratings on the Focusrite are better than the presonus.



Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2123443 07/26/13 05:47 PM
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What meaning do you ascribe to "ratings"? And, to the extent that ratings mean anything ... what aspect of those ratings lead you to believe one unit is better than the other?

Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2123447 07/26/13 05:59 PM
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Amazon ratings lol. Figured the better the ratings the more the chances are they got good drivers. Better customer satisfaction .?

Focusrite seems to be the more popular one but I'm no expert and I'm sure u guys are better qualified to determine which one i should go with.





Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
Re: 16 bit vs 24 bit
Mta88 #2123449 07/26/13 06:00 PM
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Keep in mind there is no way I'd be able to return it.

Am I safe going with the presonus used?

Do these things have significant wear and tear?

129 is not bad for brand new.


Roland fp10: Korg D1:Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors:Sennehiser Hd598c:AKG K240 MKII:Pianoteq Bechstein & Petrof:Garritan CFX:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright located at MTA PHARMACY:
“Play me I’m Yours”public piano at my store smile
https://www.facebook.com/MTAPHARMACY
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