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Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: stores] #1826991
01/18/12 10:38 AM
01/18/12 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,404
Urbandale, Iowa
S
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
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S

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,404
Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted by stores
Are you referring to the Hewitt recording? If so, you need your ears checked as it's superb. Outside of critics giving the impression that they know more than they do (and a need to sound impressive whilst filling space) I've always wondered exactly what "annoying little mannerisms and affectations" are when people mention such a thing haha. Maybe you can clarify things for me.

I can see both sides of this. I greatly enjoyed the clarity and adherence to score of the Hewitt recording, but I found some of the rubato a bit stilted. Her use of dynamics was a revelation to me and I'm making a conscious effort to play the quiet spots quieter in my own practise of the piece. However, her tempo gets way too slow at :52 through 1:03 (bar 11). Ravel says, "en largessant" (broaden), but Hewitt seems to make a mile out of a couple of inches. Bar 18 gets similar treatment wher Ravel has "tres sustenu" (very sustained). Bars 24 - 27 are also significantly slower, the score doesn't indicate any change in tempo until the second half of bar 26. This type of approach goes through the piece (kudos for consistency).

For me the Hewitt recording has amazing clarity and dynamics, but her tempo shifts in a few spots seem a bit too much for my taste. I'm curious if this is an example of attempting to recapture the romantic style of piano performance. I recall reading that in the early half of the 20th century and before rubato was more pronounced. If so, I can't say I like it.

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Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: Steve Chandler] #1827038
01/18/12 12:09 PM
01/18/12 12:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,053
T
Tim Adrianson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Tim Adrianson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,053
Steve, Angela Hewitt's conception of how the Pavane should move and sound is exactly how I hear it -- many thanks for sharing this! In her performance I get a sense of immense sadness and grief, but also an unwavering stoicism amidst the grief. This is projected by a quite slow but consistent tempo throughout, with exquisite voicing. Most appreciated!

Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: wr] #1827382
01/18/12 07:52 PM
01/18/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member
stores  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,651
Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
I'm curious what others here think of this performance, especially compared to Ravel's.


It wasn't much to my taste - seemed full of annoying little mannerisms and affectations. The Ravel has a bad piano-roll-y sound to me - I have serious doubts that it is very representative of how he actually played the piece.


Are you referring to the Hewitt recording? If so, you need your ears checked as it's superb. Outside of critics giving the impression that they know more than they do (and a need to sound impressive whilst filling space) I've always wondered exactly what "annoying little mannerisms and affectations" are when people mention such a thing haha. Maybe you can clarify things for me.


Sorry, ain't gonna bite.



Nothing to bite, sir. I'm just asking for your definition of "mannerisms and affectations" and specifically how they apply to the recording.



"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $

Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: tjkane] #1827389
01/18/12 08:05 PM
01/18/12 08:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
Waxahachie, Texas
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member
daviel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
Waxahachie, Texas
I listened to the Ravel You Tube. At least when Ravel is playing his own piece, Pavane, that he wrote himself, he knew what he wanted it to sound like.


"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas
Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: daviel] #1827398
01/18/12 08:21 PM
01/18/12 08:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,638
Hobart, Australia
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,638
Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by daviel
I listened to the Ravel You Tube. At least when Ravel is playing his own piece, Pavane, that he wrote himself, he knew what he wanted it to sound like.


It's a piano roll. Not the same as a real recording.

Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: Steve Chandler] #1827428
01/18/12 08:59 PM
01/18/12 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,291
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,291
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Steve Chandler
[...]However, her tempo gets way too slow at :52 through 1:03 (bar 11). Ravel says, "en largessant" (broaden), but Hewitt seems to make a mile out of a couple of inches. Bar 18 gets similar treatment wher Ravel has "tres sustenu" (very sustained). Bars 24 - 27 are also significantly slower, the score doesn't indicate any change in tempo until the second half of bar 26. This type of approach goes through the piece (kudos for consistency).
[...]


I quite like the Hewitt recording. In my copy of the score (Edward B. Marks Music, edited and fingered by Paolo Gallico), measure 10 is marked poco riten. followed by allargando in measure 11. Measure 18 is marked molto sostenuto, and at measure 26, I read meno mosso.

In any case, I'm not bothered at all by Hewitt's tempo changes; they seem to correspond to what I read in the score. The only thing I might question is the piano itself; it has a somewhat hard tone to it. I wonder if it's her preferred Fazioli.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Ravels Pavane [Re: tjkane] #2120868
07/21/13 05:07 AM
07/21/13 05:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 860
Poland
K
kapelli Offline
500 Post Club Member
kapelli  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 860
Poland
Does any of you has maybe the score with fingering? All I found in the pdf's are without smirk

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