Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards $6000 Roland V-piano not any better than $1000 Casio PX-850

Today, I went to the fancy dealership to sit for a few hours and compare the V-piano digital with a Steinway concert grand much to the chagrin of the sales staff.

I finally figured out why nobody buys this thing. Its cheap key bed is designed to be easy to play, thats why this synthesizer masquerading as a piano is so intoxicating to some. Its not a real piano, and its not a fake piano either.

Then it dawned on me. A fake piano is a consumer device. No wonder the warranties are all hokey.

The digital piano arms race is a racket to empty the bank accounts of fools. Its impossible to duplicate the mechanical feel of a concert grands key bed. Software modeling to further enhance the connection with the keyboard doesn't simulate the action of an acoustic grand but creates a novel action of its own.

This Tritium fellow is smart. The Casio PX-850 is as good as its ever going to get in fake piano land. Thats why I just ordered one.

StarvingLion,

I really feel you need to seek some professional, medical help.

Why are you even bothering posting in a Digital Piano forum, where the topics of conversation are...friggin' DIGITAL PIANOS.

No one here is saying that DPs are a direct replacement for acoustic pianos, or that there is some sort of one-to-one correspondence.

What you seem to have a hard time understanding or acknowledging, is the fact that digital pianos may be the only option for people in environments which do not allow for an acoustic piano - e.g., living in a Condo or apartment. Also, DPs are they only viable solution for gigging musicians who want to be able to play music which incorporates piano sounds, without actually worrying about the expense and logistics involved in transporting a real acoustic piano to each event. Heck, there are any number of legitimate reasons why people choose a digital piano solution, over a true acoustic.

Your unreasonable and irrational behavior has really started to cross the line, IMHO.

I call it plain nonsense. Anyone who can't see how the V is better than a Casio might just as well buy a Shoenhut.

Yeah, digital actions range from unweighted toys all the way up through AvantGrands that are all but indistinguishable in feel from acoustic grands. The Casio is somewhere in the middle. The V is somewhere above that, depending on what characteristics of feel you think are important.

On the sound side we have everything from the flattest synthesis up through high-end software pianos that sound like professional recordings of high-end pianos when played.

So on both the feel and sound side there is a lot of variety in digitals. I think the best argument for not caring about quality too much (besides the argument your wallet makes) is that many fully weighted hammer actions are *good enough* for even advanced use. The Casio is probably in that range. Similarly many tone generators, while imperfect, are *good enough* and often better than the acoustic equivalents in our budget.

The other argument is that Roland massively overcharges for the V.

By the way, the last piano store I went to didn't have any acoustics that I liked better than their best digitals. But they were asking a lot more for them.

Agree that the V is overpriced, but also agree OP is trolling.

....or needs to start breaking the Prozac in half.

In a few weeks there have already been plenty of gems:















Well you guys can see the posting history as I can. Extremely strong opinions for someone "beginning" less than 3 weeks ago. This forum is strange.

Look, I'm making the point that that V-Piano key bed + software may respond like a real acoustic grand but it sure does not feel like one. Its like every stage piano I've tried: too light.
Everybody here says the digitals have weighted actions like an acoustic but they don't and its deliberate: they are meant to be easier to play.

I ordered an PX-850 because none of those $2K pianos or the hyped V-piano has much to offer for a classical beginner. The SuperNatural engine is too synthetic. Key bed is too loud.

The 850 is a better deal than the P-155. The V-Piano is the most overhyped excuse of a piano on the planet. And the V-grand? Can't imagine a sucker who could be that slow to buy that abomination.

Why bother to post? U clearly are completely biased against DPs.

I've played many acoustics that were terrible to play. Not everyone of us can afford a tier one grand piano. I much rather play my software piano than many of the acoustics. Some were great. Some were awful.

I've played acoustics with actions lighter than my "light" yamaha ghs action as well


DPs have their place. The on board sound engines aren't always that great. Software pianos fill that void with amazing sound samples from high quality pianos.

Play galaxy vintage D with studio speakers or the German bluthner baby grand piano from galaxy software and then form an opinion.

Don't just bash DPs for bashing sake.

Biased against DP's? I just bought a DP only because I had to. And I got the best bang for the buck.

But the facts speak for themselves. People are happy to spend >$3K on VCP1 + high performance laptop + software engine + high performance headphones...etc

But these same people won't finance a V-Piano for $6K, the greatest digital piano on earth. Lots of amateurs spill out $6K for a good violin so c'mon here...I see lots of evidence people are spending big bucks on digital piano's every few years but...hardly anyone here will buy a V-piano.

Explain that one to me (and no, its not because the 2K difference is the reason)

The guys got every right to his opinion; I agree with a lot of it. We do get stuck in acquisition mode which can only lead to frustration. I`m currently lusting after a piece of bloody furniture (MDF based) which looks cute and isn`t cheap. . . but surely more advisable than either a Steinway (money down the drain and high maintenance) or a Harley (Accident and Emergency awaits)

Why cant Y. put a decent keybed in the DGX range? And end my torment . . oh, and make it look less like a toy . .

A high quality digital piano action is much better than an acoustic piano which hasn't had $1000 of action regulation work done on it, with periodic maintenance, etc. Every key has smooth response with predictable behavior.

Obviously, the sound is no match though.

Of course, I don't know how long a DP action would last until it needs repair. But it costs a lot less than an acoustic to maintain.

You're probably right about the V-Piano not being worth $6k... but I know the VPC-1 + software piano (that's $2k, not $3k) is pretty damn good.

A hand-made acoustic instrument can last a lifetime even with repairs, and be an investment. Electronic devices although convenient, don't carry the same longevity generally. So the price that people are willing to pay follows. Is it so mysterious?

Well I agree with you in the v piano. But that's too be expected with new tech. They are priced for the early adopters. Not for the mass market. Give it a few years and the piece should definitely drop. A black ahd white mac eith an 8inch screen and 2 floppy drives, no hard drive etc, cost 4000us back in the day. Now look where we are. I rest my case. The v piano is overpriced.

But that is to be expected.

As for the vpc1 .I personally believe that is worth every penny. Software pianos are leaps and bounds ahead of any thing stock digital pianos have to offer in my opinion. I use a yamaha p105 due to budget constraints. When the time comes I shall upgrade to a vpc1.

I should mention that I myself have never had the opportunity to try the v piano. Maybe it is really that great.


When I played pianoteq I was immediately impressed with the dynamic expression and the connection with the sound. The sound itself wasn't all that but the playability of the software was very pleasing. The bluthner add on is decent as well.

I may be one of those few who may think the v piano is worth it. Who knows.

One should keep in mind that the sound coming from the v piano is tweak able and can be altered to your liking.

But nevertheless the pricing is again, as I said, for early adopters. I look forward to when this technology is available to the mass market. Hopefully pianoteq and physis piano will put furthur pressure on the market to make this widely available(cheaper in price) .

""""Roland have fitted the V-Piano with their latest PHA-III Progressive Hammer Action 88-note weighted keyboard."""

Taken from..

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may09/articles/rolandvpiano.htm



Hmm, not even true, just a biased comment. Do you lack attention on the domestic front?


Do have an English translation of that statement?
I assume you are not accusing Roland of being corrupt or dishonest?
After all, you are legally responsible for your comments on a web-site, and you wouldn't want to look silly........ would you?

(Who said, "too late", at the back, there?)



Yawn. Grow up, people calling me a fool failed to impress me after I was 9, however, I would judge that everybody who doesn't agree with you will fit the category, "fool".



Wow, how far into the future can you see?



Like a musical instrument, you mean?

Doesn't an upright piano mechanism create a novel action of its own, compared to a grand?

Let me answert that for you, you may find it too hard, yes, it does.

Is that action invalid in any musical sense?

Yes, it is to dinosour fools who think the only decent piano is a concert grand and everything else is "fake".

So is a "different" action as relevant as an original action?

Yes. If it can produce the same effect, or even its own individual effect that emulated the original.

Like a digital piano?

Yes, EXACTLY like a digital opiano, except to troglodytes, of whom there are a few.

You said, "Software modeling to further enhance the connection with the keyboard doesn't simulate the action of an acoustic grand..."

Er, I don't know that Roland have actually claimed any such thing and I think you are allowing your bias to run away with you there, again.
Can you provide evidence of what looks to be, as far as I can see, this most inaccurate claim, (I'm keeping it polite) that you have made?



Oh I see, now we get to the point, you can't affort a V-Piano so you are settling for a cheapo.

Nothing wrong with that, I did the same myself in the past, and I still don't have a V-Piano now, but get over the inferiority complex. The Casio should be a brilliant piano that should provide endless hours of fun and help you improve massively, in piano ability, if not in interacing with fellow members of the human race.

Later, hopefully, you will be able to buy a top of the range piano, put it in a nice house, have family sing-songs around it with the wife and children.

You will look back on this thread, through the mists of time, and boy, are you going to be embarrassed!

Little Tommy will look up into your eyes and ask, in a deeply concerned tone, "Dear Daddy, Why has your face gone all red"?

You will gaze down at the little tyke, soft tears of love in your eyes and reply, "I'm too close to the fire son, that's all".

Well, you aren't going to want to tell the truth, are you?

BTW, I take it you are referring to yourself as, "smart".

I for one need a considerable amount more convincing at the moment.

There are a wide variety of actions available in both digital and acoustic pianos. The majority of digital pianos have heavier actions than most acoustic pianos I have played. But whether for action weight or other reasons, neither the V-Piano or any less expensive DP I've ever played actually feels quite like a real piano. That's not to say that some don't come closer than others.


The issue may also be, in part, that you are a beginner, and so are not yet "tuned in" to the ways that many players will find more expensive pianos likely to be better than the PX-850.



I have no idea how V-Piano sales compare to VPC-1 sales. Still, it's ridiculous to say that everyone who buys a $3k board would buy a $6k board if they liked it better. Not everyone is as fortunate as you, where there is no real difference between spending $3k and $6k. Also, the VPC does not have to be $3k+, as the majority of people buying them probably already own computers. The outlay is probably closer to $2k for most purchasers.

Also, though, not everyone agrees that the V-Piano is the best. Some people love it, some people don't. That doesn't mean it's not worth it for those who love it. All digitals are compromises in one way or another. It's a matter of personal preferences. Even on the VPC, some people prefer Pianoteq (modeling technology along the same lines as the V), some prefer sampling technology. Each has its benefits and limitations.

AS: You bring up some good points. But it's pointless to try to make points with a troll.

This Post has become quite entertaining.

U guys made my day LOL

I know I'm getting old and increasingly grumpy, but even allowing for the mild titillation of people crossing virtual swords and slaying deluded trolls, I do find this kind of thread irritating. What possible use is a thread dedicated to damning one particular instrument and category of user? If the OP had credentials as a concert pianist and long experience of the digital world, his post might possibly have some useful insight, but since that patently isn't the case, there is little, if any, merit in his rant.

That is not to say that Casio isn't making remarkable strides in their DP engineering, and that the Roland technology in question has now been around a few years, but to make sweeping assertions with no evidence to back them up (not to mention an inability to understand the value of subtle technological distinctions) could be construed as mere puffery.