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Hello everyone!

I was curious what many of you men and women think about using surge protectors with your digital pianos. I used a surge protector for a long time on one of my cheaper digital pianos as I thought this was likely a smart thing to do living in Florida (With all of the lightning/thunderstorms we get). It never seemed to mess with the quality of the sound or detract from the piano in anyway that I could notice. However, I have read in manuals, and more specifically the NU1 manual that Yamaha doesn't want you to plug it into a surge protector, and it doesn't really offer an explanation as to why. Regardless, do any of you think it matters, or can offer advice on whether it matters or not -- or if I should get one to play it safe? If so, do you recommend any special type? I intend to unplug the NU1 when I am not using it, just to be on the safe side because power does surge here quite frequently.

Thanks in advance for the replies. It really does help me immensely, so thank you for spending the time to reply.

I have a power conditioner. It will buffer all kinds of things like brownouts. I like it. I need it. I get too many weird things through my AC lines.
I had one outlet that had a ground fault in it. Both my power conditioner and a surge suppresser indicated that.

Perhaps your NU1's power supply is set up in a way that falsely causes a problem with surge suppressors?

I lived in Florida for 31 years. No surge protectors. Almost no problems.

The only problem: Left the house one day. Came home. All the computers were hung, presumably from a power bounce. All but one rebooted fine. One failed ... bad drive.

Was that because of the power bounce? Who can say? But all of the surge protectors that would have been needed to protect all of that equipment over a 31-year span would have cost much more than the $100 to replace that one drive. And that's even assuming that the the surge protectors would have saved it, which is not very likely.

I probably may be an exception, here, as I have a bunch of rather expensive amps, guitar rack effects and recording gear in my music room. Nevertheless, if you have thrown some serious money into your Digital Piano, you may want something more sophisticated than a typical power conditioner / surge suppressor. What I would highly recommend (if your budget allows) is invest in an actual voltage regulator which also has built-in filtering, conditioning and protection.

I use a Furman AR-1215

Although more expensive, the Furman Voltage regulators are superior to surge suppressors or line/power conditioners. The Furman AR-1215 provides a stable, regulated voltage to your equipment even if there are dips (or spikes) on your local power grid. Brownouts can potentially damage sensitive electronic equipment, and only a true Voltage Regulator protects against sags, brownouts or overvoltages.


Furman AR-1215

Sweetwater -- Furman AR-1215

Gee.... What did I miss?
1200W Line Conditioner w/ Isobar Protection 4 Outlets 120V

1200 watt Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) system. Protects sensitive electronics, computer accessories and home theater equipment from power-related damage and performance problems. Extends the useful life of connected equipment by providing optimum voltage conditions for enhanced efficiency and cooler internal operating temperatures. Reliable transformer-based voltage correction circuits maintain 120V nominal output during voltage fluctuations between 89 and 147V. Three levels of voltage stabilization offer targeted response for over voltages, under voltages and severe brownouts. Prevents equipment damage and power related performance problems for computer accessories, printers, home theater equipment, a/v components and other sensitive electronic devices. Network-grade AC surge and EMI/RFI noise suppression. Supports loads up to 1200 watts, 10A. Includes 4 AC outlets, 7 ft AC line cord and 7 diagnostic LEDs which display incoming voltage level, surge suppression status and line fault status. 2 Year Limited Warranty. $25,000 connected equipment insurance (USA & Canada only).

Also same product....Tripp Lite Line Conditioners Offer Brownout Protection And Surge Suppression In A Single Unit.

Line conditioners keep your equipment working through brownouts without using emergency power. Line conditioners automatically adjust under- and over-voltages to provide safe, computer-grade AC power meeting ANSI C84.1 specifications. Built-in premium surge suppression with a highly efficient stepped transformer provides computer-safe voltage regulation. 2 Year Limited Warranty.


Now what did I miss?

Easy there, Rnaple. It's all good.

If you missed anything, however, it would be a model name and/or link to the specific power conditioner you use, and recommend. I presume it is a Tripp Lite product. And doing a quick Google search, it may be the Tripp Lite Model LC1200

I would make the following additional comment:

Besides the Furman AR-1215, I also have an APC H10 power conditioner which provides "basic" voltage regulation. I have this hooked up to my A/V equipment. It is a solid product, but I trust the Furman for my most expensive electronic gear. The reason has to due with how these units actually perform the correction to the AC power, when the voltage goes out of tolerance .

The APC H10 performs basic, non-regulated switching to the limited amount of taps on it's internal transformer, in order to maintain voltage within it's specified tolerance. The Trip Lite LC1200 is similar, in that it's switching is non-regulated (uncontrolled).

The key difference is that the Furman AR-1215 performs controlled, regulated switching -- it continuously monitors the AC sine wave, and only makes a correction (electronic switching of it's 8-tap toroidal transformer) when the AC sine wave is precisely at the zero crossing.

If a switch occurs when the AC sine wave is above or below zero value, it can cause spikes and distortions to the AC sine wave, and induce noise and unwanted harmonics. Would one normally notice these sorts of things, in normal live playing...probably not. Where it can make a big difference, however, is in recording. These potential spikes and harmonic distortions can manifest as artifacts, clicks and pops in the recorded audio signal.

I fully realize the Furman AR-1215 may be overkill for many. And, I agree that Tripp Lite makes a solid product, and has a good line of power conditioners...which should be more than sufficient for most.

Isolation Transformer

My brother worked for many years for Panamax, a maker of lightning-protection gear.

I saw his "returns" pile -- full of Panamax boxes which had died (often in a cloud of black smoke) to protect their attached gear. That's my evidence against people who say:

. . . lightning protection gear is useless.

I think -- with an NU1 -- I'd go for a full-scale UPS -- an "uninterruptable power supply" that uses AC line current to charge a battery, and uses the battery (and an inverter) to generate 120 volts AC. APC is a large manufacturer, website here:

http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13

Tripplite is an alternative.

. Charles

Heck, Charles...Panamax still makes absolutely top-end gear. I know they are highly looked upon in the A/V and Home Theatre community. Furman is more geared towered the Pro / musician niche. Both make fantastic Voltage Regulators/Power conditioners...and I believe Panamax also has UPS battery backup solutions.

Panamax MB1000

Jonathan, I have read your post, here:

I was curious what many of you men and women think about using surge protectors with your digital pianos. I used a surge protector for a long time on one of my cheaper digital pianos as I thought this was likely a smart thing to do living in Florida (With all of the lightning/thunderstorms we get). It never seemed to mess with the quality of the sound or detract from the piano in anyway that I could notice. However, I have read in manuals, and more specifically the NU1 manual that Yamaha doesn't want you to plug it into a surge protector, and it doesn't really offer an explanation as to why. Regardless, do any of you think it matters, or can offer advice on whether it matters or not -- or if I should get one to play it safe? If so, do you recommend any special type? I intend to unplug the NU1 when I am not using it, just to be on the safe side because power does surge here quite frequently.

Thanks in advance for the replies. It really does help me immensely, so thank you for spending the time to reply.

________________________________________________

YES -, but some are cheap and useless so only buy good ones.

1. because you don't have to buy a new piano if you blow the unit.

2. if you have to replace the on off switch, it only costs a few dollars to make, but a million dollars to replace by a repairman.

3. Everything except a iron, or a hotplate needs a power bar in my humble opinion - unless you are filthy rich and foolish.

cheers,

The cheapest surge suppressor is quite effective: Homeowner's Insurance.

An insurance rider that adds coverage for thousands of dollars of musical gear costs under $10 per year.

I had one of those once for my computer. The battery died. Cost more to replace the battery than to buy a new one. Not interested in fooling around with that again. I just want to shut things down safely if there is a problem.

On a larger scale. A person could just get an old motor generator. Ship graveyards and airplane graveyards have them. They work great.

You do realize the lightning protection your electric company provides? Look at your transformer. On the neutral connection on the secondary. There is a bar coming from the tank to an inch or so from the connector. That is a lightning gap. You can also find lightning gaps on poles.
The biggest problem with lightning isn't a strike that jumps a gap like that. It's the flow of electrons to the highest point. Then crashing back down to ground when the lightning releases the charge in the cloud.
Your electric meter also has lightning gaps on it. On the back.

In other words, your equipment sees power surges only infrequently, and the equipment is at little risk.

The biggest apparent risks are those planted in our minds by companies selling surge suppressors that come with million dollars warranties. Snake oil.

(Excuse me, now. Gotta run out and buy some meteor insurance.)

+1.I can't be bothered with all that gear and expense. I'll take my chances and claim on insurance if anything happens. The only thing I've ever lost was a VCR worth $150 in a brown-out.

+1 This! About 10 years ago I had to replace a lot of equipment due to the power company shorting 2 lines inadvertently causing my voltage to jump from 110v to over 220v. My homeowners insurance paid for all of it. The power company wouldn't do anything for me. My neighbor had to replace everything in his house that was plugged in, including his blower and AC unit and didn't see a dime from the power company until he took them to court. I had all new stuff in a week!

I use battery backups on my computers. If I get a brown-out, the backup beeps to indicate a brown out but the computer keeps running.

That is all well and good for equipment that you don't mind losing, and receiving an alternative (new) replacement. Computers and consumer appliances would fit into this category. However, some of us have vintage amps and electronics that just cannot be easily replaced, if at all. While most of my irreplaceable equipment is guitar oriented, I imagine there are a few folks on here who have some "vintage" keyboards and/or synthesizers that just do not have a current equivalent (e.g. Moog, Nord, Hammond, etc.). This also pertains to dedicated effects units and recording gear.

In any event, I find it interesting that we can argue all day long about the pros and cons of digital pianos costing thousands of dollars, yet some think a cheap surge protector that you can pickup up at Wallmart is sufficient protection of their investment.

And forget about the fancy Marketing claims of "X" amount of dollars Insurance, should a power surge or indirect lightning strike damage your equipment. Here, I am not talking about your Homeowner's Insurance...but rather the warranty/"insurance" that is Marketed by the Surge protector manufacturer. I have read numerous horror stories of people trying to actually collect on claims from companies such as Monster (amongst others). I would recommend investing in a device from a company which specializes in power conditioning and protection, and has a proven track record in the field, especially with prosumers.

As far as I am concerned, if I have to call upon an "Insurance / Equipment Replacement" Warranty from such a product, than it has already failed it's primary and sole job of protecting the connected equipment.

Again, just my opinion and two cents. I realize everyone's mileage will vary on this issue.

Additionally, the only viable option to prevent against indirect lighting strikes (which could occur at the AC lines at the end of your street, for example), is to have proper, single-point ground for your residence, in conjunction with a "whole house" surge protector, designed and manufactured by actual power systems companies, such as Siemens, Square D, General Electric, Eaton/Cutler-Hammer, ABB, etc. These whole house surge protectors are installed on the incoming power supply, at your main breaker panel. Even the fanciest component surge protector/voltage regulator (my Furman AR-1215 included) will not protect against a lightning strike.

And yes, I am a bit (over)paranoid about power issues. I use to play out at gigs in which many of the venues had crappy power. Not only did it cause problems with the sound, but on more than one occasion we had damage to amplifiers and equipment. Once we started using a dedicated voltage regulator/power conditioner, all those problems went away.

Oh poor MacMacMac. People who are used to running ms. It doesn't phase them when things go goofy. Just when things go down completely.



So you've done gigs in Mexico?

Sometimes it felt more like Mogadishu, or Kabul. I have played some nice places. But for every nice place, there was some place that felt right out of Beirut, circa 1980s.

raple: No need to be smarmy (again ... always).My original point was that things here don't go goofy. Protection ought to be commensurate with risk. Where there is little risk, there need be little protection.

Tritium: You bring up several good points. While modern homes generally fare well with respect to power problems, performance venues might not. And, yes, cheap "protection" strips are scarcely better than none at all. If you really need protection, use quality protectors. That clearly leaves out the Monster items and the Wal Mart specials.