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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116088 07/11/13 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gijs

I have found a showroom in the Netherlands that has all the DPs I want to try. It's a bit far from my home, but it's worth it. Besides the 3 DPs I just listed, it also has the following DPs that are worth a try:
- Yamaha P105
- Casio PX-850 (even though I doubt I'll buy a cabinet)
- Casio PX-150
- Roland FP-7F (pretty similar to the FP-80
- Kawai MP6 (too much of a stage piano; no speakers)

You should definitely add the FP-7F to your possible list if it is available to you. As you say, it is similar to the FP-80 -- very similar, in fact. It has been discontinued, so you might be able to purchase it at a good discount. The built-in speakers are of a lower quality than on its replacement model, but depending on how you plan to use it, this might be an acceptable trade-off, particularly if you get it at a sale price.

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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116163 07/11/13 01:54 PM
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Alright, I will. You are right about the price: I can get it for 1500 euros, and that is included with a furniture stand that's normally worth 175 euro. This compared to the FP-80 that's 1800 euro without furniture stand. And the ES7 is 1250/1300 without furniture stand, as is the P155.

What's the reason to buy the FP-80 (or P155/ES7) over the FP-7F?

Edit: just saw the FP-7F has a looper fuction. That's pretty cool. smile But I've heard better things about the Kawai touch/piano sound than about the Roland touch/piano sound, and touch/piano sound is what I am going for. Question: if I wanted to have looper functionality with a ES7, that'd always be possible with additional soft/hardware, right?

Last edited by Gijs; 07/11/13 02:08 PM.
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116170 07/11/13 02:02 PM
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That sounds like a great deal on the fp7f - they were going for more like €1800 about a year ago. they say that the fp80 has better speakers but beyond that they are pretty much the same I think. €1500 with solid stand (and pedal?) seems a very good price indeed.


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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116173 07/11/13 02:11 PM
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Without a whole pedal set, but I imagine I'll get a damper pedal with it anyway.

Just saw the FP-7F has a looper fuction. That's pretty cool. smile But I've heard better things about the Kawai touch/piano sound than about the Roland touch/piano sound, and touch/piano sound is what I am going for. Question: if I wanted to have looper functionality with a ES7, that'd always be possible with additional soft/hardware, right?

For 1600 euro, I can get an ES7 with 3 set pedal, headphones, furniture stand, piano stool, and sheet music rest, which sounds like a pretty good deal as well.

I'm afraid to buy something that's as "old" as the FP-7. Wouldn't it be better to buy something with the newer technology?

Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116183 07/11/13 02:42 PM
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The FP7f has Roland's flag ship 'SN' technology, which is one of the best (some say the best) digital piano sounds available in a comparable DP. I don't think there is anything at all outdated about the technology - could be wrong though smile

The feel of the keys is more subjective. Some people much prefer the Kawai (probably most on this forum) and some like Yamaha or Casio better. For me, the Roland PHAIII is by far the best I've tried (except perhaps the Yamaha NW found on their best stage boards). It's subtle differences that determine the preferences, I suppose. But by no means is one defintively better than the others until you get to a higher level such as Yamaha's AvantGrands, say.

So, try them smile


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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Clayman] #2116200 07/11/13 03:22 PM
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Last edited by Ojustaboo; 07/29/13 05:48 PM.
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116228 07/11/13 04:25 PM
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Damn, the more I read about the FP-7F, the more I like it. Now it's a toss-up between the FP-7F and the ES7. Both are better than the P155, I think, and the FP-80 is not really worth the price.

I can get the ES7 for 1600 euro, including furniture stand, full 3 set pedal, piano stool, headphones and sheet music rest.
I can get the FP-7F for 1500 euro including furniture stand.

Tough choice. laugh

Anyone that has played on both that can give me any insight? I am going to play them both myself of course, but that might take a couple of weeks and I'd love to hear some more opinions in the meantime. smile

Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116235 07/11/13 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Gijs
Damn, the more I read about the FP-7F, the more I like it. Now it's a toss-up between the FP-7F and the ES7. Both are better than the P155, I think, and the FP-80 is not really worth the price.

I can get the ES7 for 1600 euro, including furniture stand, full 3 set pedal, piano stool, headphones and sheet music rest.
I can get the FP-7F for 1500 euro including furniture stand.

Tough choice. laugh

Anyone that has played on both that can give me any insight? I am going to play them both myself of course, but that might take a couple of weeks and I'd love to hear some more opinions in the meantime. smile



I have the ES7 and I have played the FP-7F in a local music store. I don't think there is any comparison. The keyboard of the ES7 is enough to make a difference for me. I like the sound of the ES7 better also.

Just a note: It was my experience that the 3-pedal unit for the ES7 was placed very close to the front of the piano and it made it difficult for me to use it comfortably so I discarded it and am using only the single pedal that comes with the piano. The single pedal works fine for me.



Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116264 07/11/13 05:42 PM
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Alright, thanks for replying. I know you are not alone with your opinion, but I have heard others praise the supernatural sound from the FP-7F as well, along with the action. It's probably a personal preference.

What I really find interesting is the looper function on the FP-7F. Is there a way to hook up a loop station to the ES7, or do something else to get the same function as on the FP-7F?

Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116300 07/11/13 06:29 PM
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Gijs, what aspect of the looper function are you interested in specifically?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Kawai James] #2116320 07/11/13 07:16 PM
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I am also going to recommend looking at the Korg SP280 despite the fact I seem to be the only one who loves it!!!

True, it is not a GH action nor Casio PX action but it has a very natural sounding Steinway sample and excellent on board speakers.


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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Kawai James] #2116472 07/12/13 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Gijs, what aspect of the looper function are you interested in specifically?

Kind regards,
James
x


I hope your implying I can use part of the functionality with the ES7. :P

Well, for some songs you just don't have enough hands. I'd want to play a bassline, and then play over that bassline with my two hands.

I have thought about workarounds myself. I could record myself playing, and then just play it back using a USB stick. However, this seems a bit cumbersome. The cool thing of the looper functionality on the FP-7F is that I can do it on the fly. I don't have to stop playing.

I don't care about the rhythm it automatically starts playing on the Roland. I can do that on the ES7 as well. But being able to play something and then the second after being able to play over it is very cool.

Edit: Since I have pretty much toned down my choices to 2 already, I will change the thread title to "Roland FP-7F vs Kawai ES7".

Last edited by Gijs; 07/12/13 06:46 AM.
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116621 07/12/13 01:01 PM
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A comment:

. . . You need to start trying out pianos.

You'll learn things playing around with them, that we can't teach you. And you'll develop your own prejudices and preferences.

One other suggestion:

. . . Bring good headphones with you.

The difference between the "true" sound (as emitted by the electronics) and "heard" sound (as reproduced through inadequate loudspeakers and amps) is substantial. You can upgrade the loudspeakers; you can't upgrade the electronic sound generator.

You've got a list of good alternatives; IMHO, none of them would be a mistake.

. Charles


. Charles
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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2116630 07/12/13 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
A comment:

. . . You need to start trying out pianos.

You'll learn things playing around with them, that we can't teach you. And you'll develop your own prejudices and preferences.

One other suggestion:

. . . Bring good headphones with you.

The difference between the "true" sound (as emitted by the electronics) and "heard" sound (as reproduced through inadequate loudspeakers and amps) is substantial. You can upgrade the loudspeakers; you can't upgrade the electronic sound generator.

You've got a list of good alternatives; IMHO, none of them would be a mistake.

. Charles


Yeah, of course I'll try them before I make a decision. smile It's just that I can't -yet-, I don't have time at the moment. And I still need to find a shop that has the FP-7F on display.

I just like to hear other's opinion regardless. I like reading reviews, and I always read pretty much all of them when possible. Not a lot of reviews for the ES7 and the FP-7F though, so any extra opinion here is more than welcome, especially from people that played on both the ES7 and the FP-7F.

About the "true" sound vs "heard" sound; I get what you mean, but aren't headphones just another set of speakers as well? Closer to your ear, yes, which means that the sound quality will be much better for less money, but they are speakers nonetheless, and technically, there's no difference between headphones and the internal speakers of a DP.

I have a very reasonable set of headphones though: the Creative Aurvana Live. As with everything I buy, I did A LOT of research before I bought those, and they were considered to be one of the best headphones for under the 100 euro (they were 50 euro when I bought them). I love them, and I definitely plan on using them a lot with the DP. Can't wait to hear the sound of a piano I'm playing through these lovely headphones. laugh

That none of them would be a mistake: I figured as much, but that's all the more reason for me to really do research before I make a decision. Part of the fun for me is the research anyway, I love hanging around forums. smile

Anyway, thanks a lot for your reply and advice. I really appreciate it. smile

Last edited by Gijs; 07/12/13 01:24 PM.
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116659 07/12/13 02:20 PM
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In December 2012 the FP-7F and the ES7 were my 2 "finalists". It's personal preference and I could have lived with either, but the ES7 was more playable, felt close to what I had been used to all my life: acoustic pianos, and since buying it I have loved playing it. Not sure if the FP-7F has the equivalent of the Kawai virtual technician, but this facility enables you to change most things you might want to change/experiment with. If you can play both of them in the same showroom I suspect it won't take long for you to decide which one feels right for you.

Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: sandalholme] #2116680 07/12/13 03:18 PM
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Before I made my final decision on the ES7, I went out to try a FP-7f. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

The FP-7f keys/action felt nice, but was a little loud and "thumpy" compared to the ES7. The speakers are not very good especially above mid volume as it starts to easily distort. Also had an odd ringing tone above middle C., however, I did not spend time trying to adjust it.

The ES7 keys/action feels great and sounds amazingly authentic the second you turn it on IMO. Virtual technician is extremely advanced yet easy to use if you want to tweak the sound. Get some good headphones to really appreciate the quality of sound. The on-board speakers are very good (in all fairness I did have an issue with speakers first time and exchanged it. Dealer was great.) I added some studio monitors for days I feel like playing loudly to wake up the neighbors, but rarely use them.

Hey, I can go on and on about what I like about the ES7 but it really doesn't matter. The best advice at the end of the day is what Sandalholme said "If you can play both of them in the same showroom I suspect it won't take long for you to decide which one feels right for you."

Good luck!

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 07/12/13 03:20 PM.
Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116701 07/12/13 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Gijs


About the "true" sound vs "heard" sound; I get what you mean, but aren't headphones just another set of speakers as well? Closer to your ear, yes, which means that the sound quality will be much better for less money, but they are speakers nonetheless, and technically, there's no difference between headphones and the internal speakers of a DP.



Gijs

The headphone can be taken from model to model. So you're comparing the internal sounds, albeit through the same pair of speakers, rather than having the confounding factor of different sized and positioned drivers for each different model. Of course, you're still hearing different amplification and sound pressure levels, unless you use an spl meter. But it's closer to objective.

Stng


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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2116845 07/13/13 02:14 AM
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As "stng" says, the headphones remove one confounding factor.

Also, I think that a 50 Euro pair of headphones will give better sound, overall, than most loudspeakers in DP's. "Better" meaning flatter frequency response, and wider frequency range.

One of the reasons the Yamaha Avant Grand is so expensive is that it has _real_ amps and loudspeakers, not "built-to-a-price" amps and speakers.

. Charles


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Re: Buying a digital piano - where to start? [Re: Gijs] #2117460 07/14/13 10:11 AM
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Alright, thanks for the info. I think my headphones are pretty decent, and they were 50 euro like you said. So I think I'll be fine in that regard.

I know now is the time to test both the FP-7F and the ES7, and that there's not much more to be said besides "some prefer the first, others prefer the second", but if you read this and you think you have anything to say about either of them, then please do so! I'd love to read as much as possible about them. smile

Re: Buying a digital piano - Roland FP-7F vs Kawai ES7? [Re: Gijs] #2117475 07/14/13 11:12 AM
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