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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115220
07/09/13 02:50 PM
07/09/13 02:50 PM
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With all this polyphony, ya get to brew up whilst waiting for the piano to boot up . . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: gvfarns] #2115223
07/09/13 02:53 PM
07/09/13 02:53 PM
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Tritium Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gvfarns


Can you hold down 256 piano notes at a time? Does anyone do so? No. You only have 10 fingers. Even assuming you mash and hold the pedal and they double count polyphony (for stereo) normal music does not approach 128 note polyphony, so it's not a limiting factor.

32 note polyphony I could imagine being an issue (maybe). I'm not even sure 64 note polyphony is a real issue for actual music. Tests designed to strain polyphony, yes, but not music.


If you are using the damper pedal, you can definitely exceed 64-notes ringing out simultaneously, depending on the composition / piece you are playing. Lower polyphony adversely affects the decay time and sustain of notes.

The issue with polyphony is rarely as simple as "how many notes can you play at once"

Depending on how a particular piano is voiced on a sampler, a single "note" may take 2 or more voices of polyphony, for instance. This is becasue of multiple samples being involved per note played due to crossfading, key release samples, etc.

It's not just whatever notes you have played at the moment, it's also the decay of notes that are holding because of using the sustain or damper pedal, samples used for string resonance, etc.

All things being equal, the higher the polyphony that a Digital Piano's DSP engine can support, the greater the fidelity in emulating the dynamic harmonic structure of an acoustic piano...and the complex resonance and interaction between it's virtual strings, cabinet, etc.

Last edited by Tritium; 07/09/13 02:58 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: peterws] #2115224
07/09/13 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
With all this polyphony, ya get to brew up whilst waiting for the piano to boot up . . . .


an argument on over what to use the beer bong for briefly ensued

Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115232
07/09/13 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tritium
All things being equal, the higher the polyphony that a Digital Piano's DSP engine can support, the greater the fidelity in emulating the dynamic harmonic structure of an acoustic piano...and the complex resonance and interaction between it's virtual strings, cabinet, etc.


Higher polyphony is not better all else equal unless it is a limiting factor. By no means is it clear that the reason the tone generators we observe on the market is limited is that polyphony has constrained them. Better tone generators may require greater polyphony (depending on how it is counted) in order to play a given set of notes fully but adding polyphony doesn't necessarily make a tone generator better.

The case in question is a pretty good example. The Casio 850 has higher polyphony but the Roland RD700NX greatly outclasses it.

128 is a lot of notes. Divide by two for stereo, 64. Still a lot of notes. Divide again if you think effects suck up polyphony (which if true only means that polyphony is an increasingly meaningless measure). Perhaps 32. Remember that on a DP when a note is pressed and it was already sustaining the previous version of it will be gone. So you'd have to have 32 different notes being sustained at once to get any drop off at all. In actual music, even advanced pieces, if 32 different notes have been played, the pedal has been cleared.

Polyphony *should* mean how many notes are being held. Manufacturers have been cheaing be redefining it as something more fundamental, which may or may not be used up by various effects. But they don't tell you under what circumstances this is true or how many effective notes you can play. As such it's not an informative measure or one that is comparable across manufacturers.

However, we can know that in current pianos polyphony doesn't matter. One way to know this is that you often see people who do not own digitals asking if they should spring for the higher polyphony, but you never find people coming to the forum to complain that their existing piano drops notes out because of lack of polyphony. We complain about virtually every other aspect of digital pianos, including miniscule details that few people can detect, but shortage of notes is not one of them.

Last edited by gvfarns; 07/09/13 03:38 PM.
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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: gvfarns] #2115244
07/09/13 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
Originally Posted by Tritium
All things being equal, the higher the polyphony that a Digital Piano's DSP engine can support, the greater the fidelity in emulating the dynamic harmonic structure of an acoustic piano...and the complex resonance and interaction between it's virtual strings, cabinet, etc.


Higher polyphony is not better all else equal unless it is a limiting factor. By no means is it clear that the reason the tone generators we observe on the market is limited is that polyphony has constrained them. Better tone generators may require greater polyphony (depending on how it is counted) in order to play a given set of notes fully but adding polyphony doesn't necessarily make a tone generator better.

The case in question is a pretty good example. The Casio 850 has higher polyphony but the Roland RD700NX greatly outclasses it.

128 is a lot of notes. Divide by two for stereo, 64. Still a lot of notes. Divide again if you think effects suck up polyphony (which if true only means that polyphony is an increasingly meaningless measure). Perhaps 32. Remember that on a DP when a note is pressed and it was already sustaining the previous version of it will be gone. So you'd have to have 32 different notes being sustained at once to get any drop off at all. In actual music, even advanced pieces, if 32 different notes have been played, the pedal has been cleared.

One way to know that polyphony doesn't matter today is that you often see people who do not own digitals asking if they should spring for the higher polyphony, but you never find people coming to the forum to complain that their existing piano drops notes out for this reason. We complain about virtually every other aspect of digital pianos, but not this one.


Hi gvfarns,

I have to cordially disagree. As I detailed in my previous post, polyphony is not simply a matter of "how many notes can be sounded at the same time". The DP manufacturer's use higher polyphony in order to make a closer, higher fidelity emulation of numerous, complex interactions occurring within a true acoustic piano.

And you keep bringing up the Roland RD700NX. Generally, "all things being equal" would also pertain to comparative price/cost levels. In this case, you are comparing a DP that sells new for $1100 (Casio PX-850) to a DP that sells new for $2700. They are in completely different market segments.

Notice that I am not in any way saying that the higher polyphony of the PX-850 makes it a superior DP than the much more expensive RD700NX. What I am saying, is that if you are looking at two DP's with comparable specs and comparable prices...I would choose the one with the higher polyphony. In any event, that is what I meant when I used the terminology "all things being equal".

Last edited by Tritium; 07/09/13 03:43 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115248
07/09/13 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Tritium
Notice that I am not in any way saying that the higher polyphony of the PX-850 makes it a superior DP than the much more expensive RD700NX. What I am saying, is that if you are looking at two DP's with comparable specs and comparable prices...I would choose the one with the higher polyphony. That is what is meant by the terminology "all things being equal".


Fair enough, but this restricted sense of all else equal is also not true. Take a PX-850 and add another thousand notes of polyphony without changing anything else. Would it sound or play any differently? No.

The tone generators are designed to work with the processing power of the DSP without leading to a note shortage. In order for increasing available notes to improve tone, you would have to completely redo the tone generator and that violates any definition of all else equal.

The only case in which adding polyphony all else equal would help anything is if the piano is dropping notes, which is why I keep bringing that up.

In the early days of DP's polyphony was limited enough that you could get two pianos that were very similar in how they sounded but one would drop notes out. At that time polyphony actually mattered, which is why manufacturers got in the habit of reporting it. Today you just don't get notes dropping out on you because of lack of polyphony. So if you want to compare pianos of similar price levels and quality, you have to use subjective measures because polyphony won't help you make your decision.

As I mentioned above, they are computed very differently by different manufacturers. It's not at all clear that the RD would drop out notes under the same playing load that the PX wouldn't (assuming you could concoct a scenario in which either would). Since "polyphony" doesn't actually mean how many notes are being played, it's not informative about or even particularly correlated with quality or playability.

The right thing to do with polyphony statistics when piano shopping is ignore them.

Last edited by gvfarns; 07/09/13 03:52 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: gvfarns] #2115259
07/09/13 04:19 PM
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Yes, ignore the polyphony unless someone is actually saying that it's a problem with this or that instrument. It's a number that is frequently misleading, kind of like watts when buying a stereo. Different manafacturers use it in different ways.

The same goes for the difference between two and three sensors on each key, although that number does mean something very concrete. It's just that it doesn't matter in most cases.

Numbers are easy to latch on to, which I suppose is why manafacturers like to talk about them. When you buy a digital camera, it's not about how many megapixels, it's about the quality of the optics. You get the idea.


Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115266
07/09/13 04:35 PM
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Tritium, I have read your subject line and post, here:

Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850
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This is a follow-up to an earlier thread. I wish to thank everyone for their feedback. It was a tough choice, and I had narrowed down my DP options to the Casio PX-850, the Kawai ES-7, and Kawai MP6.

I made my decision and ordered a Casio PX-850 through Sweetwater...a company I have done a great deal of business with over the years, on guitar equipment (yeah, I play both). Sweetwater has always been super responsive, especially whenever I had a problem with receiving equipment damaged in shipping.

It really came down very close to the PX-850 and the ES-7. However, in order to turn the ES-7 into a full "console", I would have had to spend an additional $500 (furniture stand plus 3-pedal assembly)...bringing the total price differential between the Casio PX-850 and the Kawai ES-7 to $1500.

Finally, for some strange reason, the Kawai ES-7 appears to only be available for direct order, in the States, through Kraft Music. Even Amazon shows their ES7 units to be supplied through Kraft. I have no experience with this Company, unlike Sweetwater.

So, at the end of the day, I just couldn't justify spending an additional $1500 for the ES7. Of course, I am fully aware of the age old adage "you get what you paid for". However, I have been favorably impressed with the very positive reviews that the PX-850 has received, both here and elsewhere on the Web.

Hopefully I will be satisfied with my decision.

The PX-850 will be delivered this Friday...so, I will be sure to post back with a full review and impressions as soon as I have set her up and have had a chance to run her through her paces.

Cheers, all.

__________________________________________

I was a Canadian teenage during the Vietnam war, so I met soldiers in college in San Francisco - 44 years ago.

I find it strange that people are using the word "trigger" I guess as decision or purchase.

This forum is my only connection to the internet and I haven't heard it said in Canada yet. I don't have television so maybe it is said on television.

cheers,

It is funny and not funny - but if a piano player pulls a trigger on his finger they wouldn't be able to play sharps or flats.


Last edited by Michael_99; 07/09/13 04:37 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: torhu] #2115271
07/09/13 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by torhu
Yes, ignore the polyphony unless someone is actually saying that it's a problem with this or that instrument. It's a number that is frequently misleading, kind of like watts when buying a stereo. Different manafacturers use it in different ways.

The same goes for the difference between two and three sensors on each key, although that number does mean something very concrete. It's just that it doesn't matter in most cases.

Numbers are easy to latch on to, which I suppose is why manafacturers like to talk about them. When you buy a digital camera, it's not about how many megapixels, it's about the quality of the optics. You get the idea.


Again, I respectfully disagree. A digital piano/keyboard's polyphony is just as relevant, and potentially important as a given computer's built-in memory (RAM). It is a disservice to prospective DP piano buyers...especially those who already have experience with acoustic pianos, and have an intermediate or higher level of classical piano training, to "ignore" polyphony and "ignore" key action sensor build.

True...a beginner and/or someone with little to no experience in playing acoustic pianos, probably will not be able to distinguish between a DP with 2-sensor contact keys or 3-sensor keys. However, take someone who has experience on acoustic pianos, and has a level of advancement in their technical skills...there is a major difference in response, expression, and feedback.

Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115322
07/09/13 07:04 PM
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My guess is that 99% of the cheap dp buyers who have never played a piano before don't have a copy of Gieseking's 'Piano Technique' (eg. tone quality, tone duration, tone strength) on the music rest. Therefore, if they start with a yamaha NP-11, P-105, or P-155 makes little difference. All of these dp's will screw up a serious beginner just in a more subtle fashion if you use the P-155, or at least that is my belief.

Tritium makes an interesting point. But, whether specs in a document translate into something real as in this particular case with the Casio PX-850 is another matter. Problem is, I doubt whether advanced classical pianists will agree as to whether the Casio offers real benefits to those seeking nuanced playing capabilities.

Last edited by StarvingLion; 07/09/13 07:05 PM.

I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2115403
07/09/13 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
My guess is that 99% of the cheap dp buyers who have never played a piano before don't have a copy of Gieseking's 'Piano Technique' (eg. tone quality, tone duration, tone strength) on the music rest. Therefore, if they start with a yamaha NP-11, P-105, or P-155 makes little difference. All of these dp's will screw up a serious beginner just in a more subtle fashion if you use the P-155, or at least that is my belief.

Tritium makes an interesting point. But, whether specs in a document translate into something real as in this particular case with the Casio PX-850 is another matter. Problem is, I doubt whether advanced classical pianists will agree as to whether the Casio offers real benefits to those seeking nuanced playing capabilities.


Hi SL,

I come from an acoustic piano background (owned a Yamaha GA1 Baby Grand). I would consider myself to be somewhere between high intermediate to lower advanced technical skill level, and was classically trained with formal lessons for at least ten years in my youth. After spending a good 12 - 14 hours, now, with my new PX-850...I would not hesitate in stating that Casio "hit it out of the park" with this keyboard.

Perhaps some (who have not played it) may be dubious about the price...or perhaps have bad experience with cheaper Casio "toy" keyboards. However, I can state without reservation that this is a serious instrument of high quality, with a key action, feel and tone that is simply amazing at this price point.

I would go so far as to suggest that if you were blindfolded, and sat down and played on it, you might easily mistake it for a DP that costs 3 times as much.

Is it as good as my former Yamaha GA1. No, of course not. But as someone who is a serious pianist, and was forced to choose a digital piano solution, I am both satisfied and impressed with what Casio has managed to achieve and deliver with this product.

Also, I would point out that the PX-850 shares the exact same keyboard action as the PX-5S, a product that has been getting rave reviews, both here and on other keyboard sites.

Last edited by Tritium; 07/09/13 09:56 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115426
07/09/13 10:30 PM
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Tritium, I have to admit that based on existing explanations in this thread I don't understand how the enhanced polyphony of the Casio is relevant to superior performance. Your information is rooted in mystery. Perhaps the trisensor feature is important. Your glowing review is unexpected in that you are clearly making astonishing remarks of the 850's performance. Seems to good to be true.





I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2115439
07/09/13 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
Tritium, I have to admit that based on existing explanations in this thread I don't understand how the enhanced polyphony of the Casio is relevant to superior performance. Your information is rooted in mystery. Perhaps the trisensor feature is important. Your glowing review is unexpected in that you are clearly making astonishing remarks of the 850's performance. Seems to good to be true.





Wow, you are quite the skeptic. grin

No worries, mate...just teasing.

I think my over-all highly favorable impression of the PX-850 is due to a number of factors.

A) 256-note polyphony, and the extra HP that this specification allows for in terms of sample size, as well as virtual modeling of note decay, string resonance, etc.

B) 3-contact key sensor. Yes, most definitely. I can tell the difference in responsiveness and reaction versus older keyboard with 2-contact key sensor.

C) Virtual modeling of string resonance

D) Virtual modeling of damper response and resonance

Again, I encourage you to read other opinions on Casio's PX-5S (identical keyboard and above features)...which has a healthy thread going on here:

Casio PX-5S thread on PianoWorld Digital Piano Forum


As well as here:

Casio PX-5S thread on MusicPlayer forums

Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115490
07/10/13 01:43 AM
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Quote

. . .
A) 256-note polyphony, and the extra HP that this specification allows for in terms of sample size, as well as virtual modeling of note decay, string resonance, etc.
. . .


PMFJI --

"256-note polyphony" has _nothing_ to do with sample size, or virtual modelling of note decay, or "string resonance".

They're four different, unrelated measures of the sophistication of a digital piano's sound generator.

At least, that's how I understand it. You could build a DP with low polyphony, and big samples, fancy note-decay modelling, and "string resonance".

Or you could build a DP with very high polyphony, short samples, crude note-decay, and no string resonance.

It's not a good idea to use "polyphony" as a proxy for anything else.

. Charles



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115510
07/10/13 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Tritium
B) 3-contact key sensor. Yes, most definitely. I can tell the difference in responsiveness and reaction versus older keyboard with 2-contact key sensor.

AFAIK, the only thing the third sensor does is to allow you to depress the key again and get a sound, without letting the key go all the way back up. It's like the double escapement feature on a grand. Upright acoustics don't usually have the feature. I don't know if that's what you mean by "responsiveness and reaction", but that's all there is to it.


Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2115621
07/10/13 09:50 AM
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"All of these dp's will screw up a serious beginner just in a more subtle fashion if you use the P-155, or at least that is my belief..."

Fair comment. But what really really screws up a beginner is a naff acoustic. There are Loads of those around as you well know. There`s nothing worse except a bad cup o` coffee . . .


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2115643
07/10/13 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by StarvingLion
......yamaha NP-11, P-105, or P-155 ......... All of these dp's will screw up a serious beginner just in a more subtle fashion if you use the P-155, or at least that is my belief.


On the other hand, a beginner who has some talent and love for the sound will not screw up on any of those instruments. Why would they screw up at all? Demigods such as Bach and Haydn made music on the keyboards available at the time - crude and limited compared with a well made digital piano.

Ordinary mortals do the same.

Except if you're talking about a really out of condition acoustic, about which I'm broadly in agreement with PeterWs. Heaven preserve us from those.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115700
07/10/13 01:43 PM
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There are a few comments regarding polyphony "all else being equal". I don't believe there is ever a case of "all else being equal" if two similar pianos have different polyphony. If the tone generators were the same, then the manufacturer would quickly label the "low end" model with the higher polyphony number. Higher polyphony would seem to be indicative of a higher quality tone generator. If a lower quality tone generator could do more polyphony, the manufacturer would advertise it as so.

Everyone in this thread is speculating, so we should keep the postulations simple. Barring the unlikely case of a manufacturer intentionally crippling otherwise identical hardware or falsifying specifications, we can assume that the hardware will be marketed with the best of its capabilities.


Playing: Yamaha GC2
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2115770
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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2116208
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Don`t forget the pictures . . .


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Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: emenelton] #2116223
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Tritium Offline OP
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Western MA, USA
Well this has been an interesting thread. I buy a Casio PX-850, explained some of the personal, subjective reasons that motivated my selection, as well as listed some of the unit's technical features that also were key aspects in my choice.

I didn't expect this thread to devolve into arguments over what I perceived as being of particular value. For example, the sound engine's polyphony rating, and most recently the three contact sensor key system. What is worse, some of the comments imply that I don't have a legitimate reason for listing something as a "feature", and by extension...that I don't really know what I am talking about.

Polyphony has been beat to death...now the latest is the the 3-contact key sensor.

The third sensor provides the capability for a DP's action to emulate the response of an acoustic grand piano action...specifically, in regards to the double escapement feature. This system allows notes to be repeated without requiring full key returns, thereby allowing the player to execute rapid repeats, and in particular, rapid soft repeats and trills. Although Casio doesn't specifically advertise and associate their "Tri-sensor" with the double escapement mechanism, their system reproduces this effect, as do other DPs with a 3-contact key sensors.

Now, I also recognize this double escapement mechanism is not generally featured in an upright acoustic piano. In other words, with most upright acoustic (or a DP with only 2-contact sensor) the key has to more or less fully return before the note can be repeated. The drawback is that this takes extra time, which lowers the speed and facility of making rapid repetitions...and this especially the case when playing pianissimo or mezzo piano rapid repeats and trills.

With that said, the implied questioning for my listing of the PX-850's 3-contact key sensor as an important "feature/benefit" is confusing...especially since I have stated a few times in this thread that I previously owned a Yamaha GA1 Baby Grand acoustic. I learned on, trained on and owned grand piano(s) that have double escapement. Moreover, I play classical pieces in which this feature is appreciated...and that is why the 3-contact sensor is so important for me, personally.

Last edited by Tritium; 07/11/13 04:18 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2116271
07/11/13 05:51 PM
07/11/13 05:51 PM
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StarvingLion Offline
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My harsh tone is a result of a pattern I've noticed within the digital forum:

1. Action is everything. All I need in addition is a "realistic sound" and good price. Yah, a done deal!

2. [6 months later] Can't tolerate the sound of this unit.

3. [Current solution] A stampede into software pianos which I predict will produce a different kind of frustration but in the end...the same fate.

I'm glad I never bought the p-155 because I don't believe I will be happy with any digital piano. Its a computer, not a piano.

[signing off...my last post in the digital forum]


I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2116301
07/11/13 06:30 PM
07/11/13 06:30 PM
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Tritium Offline OP
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Tritium  Offline OP
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Western MA, USA
Originally Posted by StarvingLion
My harsh tone is a result of a pattern I've noticed within the digital forum:

1. Action is everything. All I need in addition is a "realistic sound" and good price. Yah, a done deal!

2. [6 months later] Can't tolerate the sound of this unit.

3. [Current solution] A stampede into software pianos which I predict will produce a different kind of frustration but in the end...the same fate.

I'm glad I never bought the p-155 because I don't believe I will be happy with any digital piano. Its a computer, not a piano.

[signing off...my last post in the digital forum]


StarvingLion, I hope you aren't leaving on my account. I was just trying to clarify a few points that I felt were, IMHO, being misunderstood or misapplied, when it came to commenting on features and/or specifications which were personal, subjective criteria I had used in selecting a particular DP solution.

Certainly, I respect your opinions, and encourage your continued participation.

Also, I agree that a DP is ultimately a compromise, and a series of trade-offs...which have to be balanced, when compared to a true acoustic piano. However, for those of us who want a piano, and for very legitimate reasons cannot select an acoustic piano (in my case, due to the fact that I now live in a Condo)...a Digital Piano is the only viable alternative.



Last edited by Tritium; 07/12/13 01:32 AM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: StarvingLion] #2116303
07/11/13 06:39 PM
07/11/13 06:39 PM
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Michael_99 Offline
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StarvingLion, I have read your post, here:

My harsh tone is a result of a pattern I've noticed within the digital forum:

1. Action is everything. All I need in addition is a "realistic sound" and good price. Yah, a done deal!

2. [6 months later] Can't tolerate the sound of this unit.

3. [Current solution] A stampede into software pianos which I predict will produce a different kind of frustration but in the end...the same fate.

I'm glad I never bought the p-155 because I don't believe I will be happy with any digital piano. Its a computer, not a piano.

[signing off...my last post in the digital forum]

__________________________________

Well, sadly, StarvingLion, you (he) won't be able to read this because he has said good-bye.

Digital pianos are awesome beyond description in the same way that bicycles are awesome beyond description comparing bicycles to harleys and digitals to acoustics. But they are totally different things.

A digital can be dragged onto a bus, shoved under a bed, played 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, any time of the day or night.

Sure, the key action currently is less than perfect - but it is way, way, way, way, better than a spring loaded keyboard action when comes to playing the piano.

Sound to me is worth 1%, weighted key action 99.9999999%, battery operated 25% , lightweight 25%.

As as I have said before, if they made a 48 weighted key battery operated keyboard weighing 10 pounds, it would be priceless because you could carry it everywhere and play/practice it anytime - anywhere - on the planet or in outerspace.

When they make a 48 weighted key piano, it will change the piano world forever in the same way that laptops changed the computer world and cell phones used to be the size of a small motorcycle battery and now cell phones are the size of a medium sized chocolate bar.

Last edited by Michael_99; 07/11/13 06:58 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Michael_99] #2116314
07/11/13 07:09 PM
07/11/13 07:09 PM
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PossumES8Krome61 Offline
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OP- I am glad you are enjoying your PX-850; sounds like you picked the right piano for you. Could you let us know a little bit about the onboard amplification; how is the bass? Have you experimented with the lid settings- those look truly unique compared to others in the price range.


I myself rather play a good digital (such as my SP280 or PX130 etc..) than a mediocre acoustic. Actually i have not touched an acoustic in a while


Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280
Kawai ES8
Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: peterws] #2116356
07/11/13 09:13 PM
07/11/13 09:13 PM
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Tritium Offline OP
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Tritium  Offline OP
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Western MA, USA
Originally Posted by peterws
Don`t forget the pictures . . .


Hi Peterws,

Here is a pic I took a little early this afternoon. Incidentally, the small colored stickers are little Post-It stickers, I used to keep track of the parts and their relation to how they were originally packed in the crate...in case I needed to return the unit if I found a problem/defect. I forgot to take them off before taking the pic:



[Linked Image]

Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2116367
07/11/13 09:30 PM
07/11/13 09:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 38
Ontario, Canada
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semo Offline
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Tritium,

Very nice, congrats! Though it is hard to associate practising Chopin with those nice looking guitars... Enjoy your new instrument.


CA95, Sennheiser HD598
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: semo] #2116371
07/11/13 09:37 PM
07/11/13 09:37 PM
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Tritium Offline OP
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Tritium  Offline OP
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Western MA, USA
Originally Posted by semo
Tritium,

Very nice, congrats! Though it is hard to associate practising Chopin with those nice looking guitars... Enjoy your new instrument.


The first two guitars (sonic blue and candy apple red) are Yngwie Malmsteen Signature Strats. Believe it or not, my guitar playing is in the neo-classical / Yngwie style...so it all kind of fits in. That is not to say I can't play some mean ass blues (Clapton/SRV/Gilmour), when I feel like it. grin cool

Last edited by Tritium; 07/11/13 09:37 PM.
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: Tritium] #2116381
07/11/13 09:58 PM
07/11/13 09:58 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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semo Offline
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Originally Posted by Tritium
The first two guitars (sonic blue and candy apple red) are Yngwie Malmsteen Signature Strats. Believe it or not, my guitar playing is in the neo-classical / Yngwie style...so it all kind of fits in. That is not to say I can't play some mean ass blues (Clapton/SRV/Gilmour), when I feel like it. grin cool


Awesome!!


CA95, Sennheiser HD598
Re: Just pulled trigger on a Casio PX-850 [Re: PossumES8Krome61] #2116440
07/12/13 01:54 AM
07/12/13 01:54 AM
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Tritium Offline OP
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Tritium  Offline OP
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Western MA, USA
Originally Posted by Possum SP280Krome
OP- I am glad you are enjoying your PX-850; sounds like you picked the right piano for you. Could you let us know a little bit about the onboard amplification; how is the bass? Have you experimented with the lid settings- those look truly unique compared to others in the price range.


I myself rather play a good digital (such as my SP280 or PX130 etc..) than a mediocre acoustic. Actually i have not touched an acoustic in a while


Hi Possum,

Yes, I am very favorably impressed with the onboard speaker/sound system. This model can get crazy loud, and as such, I never have the volume dial set beyond noon (12:00) position. Like most DPs, it has line outs, so I could connect it also to my Yamaha MSR100 active monitor. However, I haven't felt the need to.

The onboard speakers/amplification provides more than enough volume...without even breaking a sweat. Mind you, my PX-850 is installed in a modest size room. Obviously, if you were performing in front of an audience, for example in a club or at a church, you would use an outboard active monitor/PA. But in that case, you probably would also be using a slab style unit (e.g. Casio PX-5S or Kawai ES7).

The lid simulator function seems a bit of a "gimmick", IMHO. I just leave it set to the full "open" position (which emulates a grand piano with fully open soundboard). What definitely is not a "gimmick", is the actual physical lid that can be opened on top of the piano console. These are two separate things, and I was at first confused by their similar wording. In any event, when you open up the physical "lid" on the PX-850 console, this directs some of the sound from the speakers directly back at you. It really makes a difference, and provides more ambience and a larger, more immersive soundscape. You also can hear the string and damper resonances better, which in my opinion helps provide a closer interaction and connection between the player and the piano.

The opening up of the top lid on the console, and resulting increase in sound projection, can be seen/heard in this video, at time stamp beginning around 08:00. The entire video is well worth watching (note, at one point, the reviewer accidentally calls the model the "830", but that was a mistake. It is the 850):

Casio PX-150/750/850 overview








Last edited by Tritium; 07/12/13 02:17 AM.
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