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#2115606 - 07/10/13 09:08 AM And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,698
CyberGene Online content
1000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,698
Sofia, Bulgaria
... the real acoustic piano laugh Seriously, I bought a cheap piano tuning kit from eBay, and a professional piano tuning app for iPhone (TuneLab - measures inharmonicity and calculates the optimum stretch) and tuned my old upright which hadn't been tuned for 10 years. Wow!!! Just wow! The result is an enormous fun which exceeds any digital/software piano experience in the utmost degree! Well, yeah, it required me few passes of tuning in order to raise the pitch and to get used to setting the pins and the strings but it is definitely worth it. I wholeheartedly recommend you to try it. I am extremely happy I've spent the money for the tuning software rather than for Ivory American. The final experience is organic and heavenly despite the piano being just some old little upright. I wouldn't have had such pleasure with Ivory. Period smile


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
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#2115709 - 07/10/13 01:56 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,631
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,631
Northern England.
Well Done! I done that myself years ago wi an ole Broadway grand. Somebody said you can maintain the tuning by using superglue on the tuning pegs to stop them slipping. But you might not have to!



"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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#2115720 - 07/10/13 02:23 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 984
36251 Offline
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36251  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 984
next, you can tune your own Steinway.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2115731 - 07/10/13 02:47 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: 36251]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 432
kippesc Offline
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kippesc  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 432
United States
Originally Posted by 36251
next, you can tune your own Steinway.

I've done that. But it's been a while. I bought a tuning program many years ago after having a tuner show up with one. I figured that if all he was going to do was start at the bottom A and move up the keyboard, I could do that. But there are, of course, better techs out there who do more than that.

I don't buy this idea that acoustics (even not so good ones) easily win out over digitals. Try the GOOD digitals. Pianoteq U4 is great, for example. The Roland SNs and Yamaha AGs are good too. But Pianoteq is very expressive -- listen to the realistic color change as a note sustains; listen to the damping of the note and even the mechanical noise.

One last thing: while it's fun to learn to tune a piano and fulfilling at first, it starts to get as boring as house painting, mowing the lawn or folding laundry after while -- particularly when you're a slow amateur.


Steinway B
Yamaha AvantGrand N2
Roland RD-700NX
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#2115805 - 07/10/13 05:27 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,698
CyberGene Online content
1000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,698
Sofia, Bulgaria
Pianoteq is a very personal thing. I can't stand it for more than 15 minutes. While it is realistically dynamic, it is also very synthetic and tin like. With each version it gets better yet it is still too metallic sounding to be taken seriously. I have tried each new version so I know what I am talking about. But as I said that's a personal opinion. And tuning a piano would last at least few months if you have done it with even only half of the required skills. So, we're comparing two hours spent in tuning each few months to 15 minutes spent in boredom each time you play Pianoteq. To me that's day and night. Yet, one more time - this is strongly a matter of preference.

Last edited by CyberGene; 07/10/13 05:39 PM.

https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2115818 - 07/10/13 06:08 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 961
johnlewisgrant Offline
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johnlewisgrant  Offline
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Posts: 961
canada
If you can get a fake piano with a really even and realistic action (Kawai and Yamaha keyboards come to mind), the keyboard itself is useful for developing technique (quite apart from the realism issue). I use a tuning program on the real thing, which is also GREAT, because it's perfectly in tune all the time. Once you get good at tuning, you will have much more control over the "sound" of your piano; you get the tuning that YOU like.

Last edited by johnlewisgrant; 07/10/13 06:11 PM.

My take on J. S. Bach, Scarlatti, Shostakovich: https://www.youtube.com/user/dohgrant/playlists

My current thing.... a wee bit of Shostakovich, that underrated Russian composer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C29LqzTOoYM&list=PLP5BZzcdRkq1WU147i5-3K92XlBgTe-kp
#2115871 - 07/10/13 09:24 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 226
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member
StarvingLion  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 226
Very useful information, CyberGene.

Frankly, is one reason (acoustic is too loud) for getting a digital a myth? The middle pedal muffler is not enough in all acoustics?

Last edited by StarvingLion; 07/10/13 09:27 PM.

I'm starting the solid wooden keys revolution in digital pianos. Get'em now or be square!
#2115886 - 07/10/13 10:05 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: StarvingLion]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Mikael L Offline
Junior Member
Mikael L  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
While I also think that these are very subjective issues, I have myself become a believer in DP+software sound as a satisfying replacement for an acoustic piano (something I didn't believe in a week ago). Yamaha CP5 + Pianoteq made me change my mind. Vintage D further helped supporting the new mindset.

The mind need more convincing, though, than when playing an acoustic.

A few years ago I remember sitting in a sailing boat looking at the smooth sea waves, thinking that they looked very unrealistic and computer generated. It's possible that hearing a very clean recording of a perfectly tuned acoustic piano might feel the same.

Anyways. For me, reality is a combination of order and interactions and feedbacks that ultimately result in chaos. A lot of DPs lack the latter. More of that, please smile

Last edited by Mikael L; 07/10/13 10:09 PM.

Estonia Grand (80's)
Yamaha CP5
Mostly interested in jazz
#2116028 - 07/11/13 07:28 AM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: CyberGene]  
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,616
MacMacMac Offline
5000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,616
North Carolina
I think a software piano is a good replacement when compared to a recorded acoustic piano.

But it cannot compare in a live performance. In this case ... if you want proper piano sound, there's no substitute for a proper piano.

#2116416 - 07/11/13 11:51 PM Re: And "the best piano experience" goes to...[tense moment] [Re: MacMacMac]  
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Mikael L Offline
Junior Member
Mikael L  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I think a software piano is a good replacement when compared to a recorded acoustic piano.

But it cannot compare in a live performance. In this case ... if you want proper piano sound, there's no substitute for a proper piano.


Maybe add amplified to that as well? But yes, I suppose there is a lot to be done in the area of replacing strings with speakers. High precision carbon nanotube speakers?


Estonia Grand (80's)
Yamaha CP5
Mostly interested in jazz

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