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I just had a private lesson with the wonderful concert pianist and teacher, Walter Prossnitz. He was describing what separates a gifted student from a professional. I am paraphrasing what he said: the student, (me,) plays the music like the piano is an enemy that must be conquered. I was embarassed to admit he was right on target. He said, no it's your dance partner and it is designed to do exactly what you tell it. Stop fighting it like you are entering a battle. Let the music flow into your heart and then flow back out into the instrument. Pay attention to the moment and don't worry about all the tiny details and that upcoming difficult passage. It will continue to be difficult as long as you think it is. You can play it if you just let go.
I feel like my heart has been freed up from paying too much attention to detail and not enough to the overall soul of the piece. I need to remember to love my piano not conquer it.
Best regards,
Deborah
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To quote Boris the Boglodyte (MIB 3), "I prefer to do both."
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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It will continue to be difficult as long as you think it is. You can play it if you just let go.
I understand the guy, and I agree with the psychology behind the statement. But the first thing that passed across my brain was … "Use the force, Luke … "
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Sometimes a metaphor like this, especially from a musician who is not one's regular teacher, can unlock worlds. That sounds like inspirational teaching, gooddog.
Canadian Walter Prossnitz, a native of Victoria, BC but based for many years in Zurich, Switzerland, has recently taken a position as head of the piano faculty at the Victoria Conservatory. He is now dividing his time between Canada and Switzerland.
Very interesting fellow, very fine pianist, and a kind soul.
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I wonder if the music can flow without a certain amount of time and concentration spent on the details, though.
I've been pondering this question because I've recently had two transformative experiences in two different areas, and wondering if some similar epiphany is possible in piano.
In Argentine tango dancing, I recently had a lesson which gave me one simple key (move into my partner, and don't care at all about doing the steps right) that has moved my dancing to a whole new level of enjoyment and connection. It's like finding nirvana after twenty years of seeking through attention to all sorts of details. But just because I'm not caring about the details now, does that mean I could have done without them? Or does my ability to stay connected with my partner and not fall over my or his feet, even when not paying conscious attention to my feet, come partly from those twenty years of focused attention on my feet?
In my spiritual life, I've just ditched feeling any allegiance of "should believe this" to everything I've learned since about the age of 10. I feel much lighter, and clearer about what's important, than I could have imagined it would be possible to feel. Yet, would it have been possible to be in this current state if I had just not done any of the extensive seeking and study and yearning and wondering that I've been doing from age 10? Or are these 41 years of journeying necessary for me to be where I am now in my faith journey, even as I reject most of the shape of what I thought I was seeking?
T.S. Eliot wrote "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." I have always thought of that as suggesting that we eventually discover that our exploration was unnecessary. But perhaps one needs the exploration in order to know the place we started for the first time, and we couldn't gain that knowledge just by staying home the whole time.
Perhaps it works differently for different people. I know people who seem to catch on to the essence of skilled and effortless Argentine tango dancing much faster than I did, and people who seem to have a much smoother faith journey than I have had (although I'm not sure it's easy to know what struggles a person with a currently confident-seeming faith may have been through).
Bringing this back to piano. I'd like to learn to play my music effortlessly, smoothly, beautifully. Is the secret solely to think "I love the piano" rather than "I am trying to conquer the piano"? Or do I need some amount of just plain doggedly working on the details before I can graduate to just letting the music flow out of my heart and into the instrument? Or is the point that I can (even, must) approach even my apprentice phase of learning the building blocks as if they are music flowing out of my heart into the piano, rather than an obstacle to be surmounted?
Is the revelation gooddog received a revelation for all pianists, no matter how beginner, or only a revelation that can be enjoyed by pianists at a certain level of skill already?
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I suspect strongly that it is a message that requires a certain mastery of basic technique before it is fully relevant.
BTW, this is a superb post, PS88.
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Funny, I've never once regarded my piano as the enemy, more as a very long suffering friend. The enemy as my own ineptitude, lack of concentration, lack of effective tutelage, and a certain neurologic deficit which will never allow for anything approaching a flawless performance. But the piano itself, never. To paraphrase Liszt, the piano is my beloved horse, and I frequently fall off.
Slow down and do it right.
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Canadian Walter Prossnitz, a native of Victoria, BC but based for many years in Zurich, Switzerland, has recently taken a position as head of the piano faculty at the Victoria Conservatory. He is now dividing his time between Canada and Switzerland.
Very interesting fellow, very fine pianist, and a kind soul.
Just to up-date you on Mr. Prossnitz' position in Victoria : He will be returning permanently to Europe this summer, resigning his all-too-brief tenure as Head of the Keyboard Department at the Victoria Conservatory of Music. He will endeavour to maintain his connection with VCM through some (electronic) distance-teaching, but he will no longer be Head of Keyboard nor will he physically be present in this area. Regards,
BruceD - - - - - Estonia 190
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I don't think it's a choice between thinking of the piano as your enemy and "Let the music flow into your heart and then flow back out into the instrument". Neither extreme makes much sense to me.
Haven't the professionals the teacher described spent many years perfecting their technique in great detail and with much thought so that they don't have to think so much about technical considerations compared to an amateur?
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Did the suggestion help with your playing?
Professional pianist and piano teacher.
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Thanks for this news update, Bruce.
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I wonder if the music can flow without a certain amount of time and concentration spent on the details...do I need some amount of just plain doggedly working on the details before I can graduate to just letting the music flow out of my heart and into the instrument? Is the revelation gooddog received a revelation for all pianists, no matter how beginner, or only a revelation that can be enjoyed by pianists at a certain level of skill already? Beautiful post PianoStudent88. Yes, I do believe you first must put in the hours of work before you can freely play the music from your heart unless you are some kind of savant who can immediately play anything without effort. Does this idea help others? I hope so. I know I tend to become so engrossed in taming "the beast", (in this case Chopin's Ballade #3) that I forget how to relax and let the music flow. I think I am too intense, always striving to play it better with less mistakes, more subtlety, more clarity, etc. I get in my own way by overthinking it instead of just letting it flow. I tend to forget the music because I'm having a non-stop inner dialogue with myself, " okay, here comes the leggiero, make it light and quiet, here's that ascending arpeggio-now don't rush it, ah, here comes that hard part, stay loose". It reminds me of the expression, "you can't see the forest for the trees". Walter was reminding me to look beyond the labor and the details and to just take a breath and enjoy the music. Did it help my playing? I think so and I think with time, it will help even more as the idea blooms in my head. Very interesting fellow, very fine pianist, and a kind soul. Yes indeed. I've had a total of 3 lessons with Walter Prossnitz and each one has left me with a gem of an idea that completely changed my direction. He has a great deal to offer and I will miss him.
Best regards,
Deborah
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Well, my teachers Nina Scolnik and Dorothy Taubman just showed you how to make it easy, and expressive.
I wonder if that is what the guy meant?
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I wonder if the music can flow without a certain amount of time and concentration spent on the details, though.
I've been pondering this question because I've recently had two transformative experiences in two different areas, and wondering if some similar epiphany is possible in piano.
In Argentine tango dancing, I recently had a lesson which gave me one simple key (move into my partner, and don't care at all about doing the steps right) that has moved my dancing to a whole new level of enjoyment and connection. It's like finding nirvana after twenty years of seeking through attention to all sorts of details. But just because I'm not caring about the details now, does that mean I could have done without them? Or does my ability to stay connected with my partner and not fall over my or his feet, even when not paying conscious attention to my feet, come partly from those twenty years of focused attention on my feet?
In my spiritual life, I've just ditched feeling any allegiance of "should believe this" to everything I've learned since about the age of 10. I feel much lighter, and clearer about what's important, than I could have imagined it would be possible to feel. Yet, would it have been possible to be in this current state if I had just not done any of the extensive seeking and study and yearning and wondering that I've been doing from age 10? Or are these 41 years of journeying necessary for me to be where I am now in my faith journey, even as I reject most of the shape of what I thought I was seeking?
T.S. Eliot wrote "We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time." I have always thought of that as suggesting that we eventually discover that our exploration was unnecessary. But perhaps one needs the exploration in order to know the place we started for the first time, and we couldn't gain that knowledge just by staying home the whole time.
Perhaps it works differently for different people. I know people who seem to catch on to the essence of skilled and effortless Argentine tango dancing much faster than I did, and people who seem to have a much smoother faith journey than I have had (although I'm not sure it's easy to know what struggles a person with a currently confident-seeming faith may have been through).
Bringing this back to piano. I'd like to learn to play my music effortlessly, smoothly, beautifully. Is the secret solely to think "I love the piano" rather than "I am trying to conquer the piano"? Or do I need some amount of just plain doggedly working on the details before I can graduate to just letting the music flow out of my heart and into the instrument? Or is the point that I can (even, must) approach even my apprentice phase of learning the building blocks as if they are music flowing out of my heart into the piano, rather than an obstacle to be surmounted?
Is the revelation gooddog received a revelation for all pianists, no matter how beginner, or only a revelation that can be enjoyed by pianists at a certain level of skill already? Every once in a while, there is a post on Piano World that makes the time spent here all worthwhile. This is such a post. Thank you so much for sharing, PS88!!! If I may trade a poem with you, cf. Wordsworth, "Ode: Intimations of Immortality." Then, to answer your question with your own answer: move into your piano. It's your partner. (Mine likes to be caressed. )
I may not be fast, but at least I'm slow.
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Um, this is nice but it sounds like a little bit of BS if you ask me. I crappy piano vs a wonderfully regulated Steinway can REALLY change how much I "fight" the instrument...
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Um, this is nice but it sounds like a little bit of BS if you ask me. Give yourself some time to fall, get beat up, bruised and disillusioned. Then, you'll start to see it.
I may not be fast, but at least I'm slow.
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It's definitely a lot easier to carress a piano that is well-tuned & regulated and has a nice tone . I've done a lot of fighting against the limitations of some pretty crappy (is this word OK in this august forum?) junk masquerading as 'pianos' for decades: if their limitations far transcend mine (in terms of my technique), you know they really are bad. Like higher notes so out of tune that their pitch are lower than the notes below them, missing keys, missing strings (= no sound)...you get the idea. But when I play on good pianos, I never feel like it's 'me v the piano'; not even when my technique is felt wanting when trying to master something. The piano is my collaborator, egging me on to achieve the unsurmountable, even the impossible...... .
If music be the food of love, play on!
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gooddog, I have read your post, here:
I just had a private lesson with the wonderful concert pianist and teacher, Walter Prossnitz. He was describing what separates a gifted student from a professional. I am paraphrasing what he said: the student, (me,) plays the music like the piano is an enemy that must be conquered. I was embarassed to admit he was right on target. He said, no it's your dance partner and it is designed to do exactly what you tell it. Stop fighting it like you are entering a battle. Let the music flow into your heart and then flow back out into the instrument. Pay attention to the moment and don't worry about all the tiny details and that upcoming difficult passage. It will continue to be difficult as long as you think it is. You can play it if you just let go.
I feel like my heart has been freed up from paying too much attention to detail and not enough to the overall soul of the piece. I need to remember to love my piano not conquer it. _______________________________
I don't know if I understand this post.
I tried 4 time in my life to take piano lessons but failed because I typed for a living and I just could do both - type and practice piano.
My last chance came when I had a cancer and a stoke and had to learn to walk and talk, but my fingers were okay with a little numbness - so very lucky.
I had learning difficulties my whole life, am dyslexic and failed grades 1 and 3 and decided on a job I could do in grade six, so that was my goal and focused on that trying get through high school with the parents helping me. Finally, I got to college and was slow, of course. I was a bit worried then then that maybe I couldn't do it. Fortunately I was very determined and never ever give up - so I thought if the average student took 2 years to graduate, then I will probably take 4 years to graduate, and that is okay. In the end, I was able to do it in 2 years. A funny thing happened. I subscribed in grade six to a U.S. national magazine of the profession at a student rate for students, of course. After a few years, they wrote me a letter saying you cannot subscribe to this national magazine at a student rate any longer. I wrote them back and said. I am still only in high school and started subscribing when I was in grade 6, so I haven't even got to college yet. Of course, everything was okay.
So as I was saying I took my chance of learning to play the piano at 63. I couldn't afford a teacher because I was on a disability and still am.
When I started to learn the piano, I used Leila Fletcher Piano course book 1. It took me about a year to work through the book of 50 pages, 50 pieces. They say that learning the piano can be a bit difficult. Because I had played as a beginner in a community band as a beginner not doing well and had tired piano lessons 4 times, I expected to be able to play the little book. When I got to page 24, my brain almost exploded when I had to play two notes together at the same time. I figured this could be the end for me. It took several months before I could do two notes together. I could play one hand, of course, but it was a show stopper when I would reach a point where I had to play two notes together. So I was a bit worried. But as a beginner and couldn't afford a teacher, and had played badly, I knew I had to keep a high standard not knowing what I was facing down the road. So my standard was to always play without errors with no exception else I slow down until it was done without errors. So it took me at least 3 to 4 months or more before I could play 2 notes smoothly and witout it being a show stopper. Understand I knew the notes by name without hesitation because I repeated everything I learned over and over everyday day after day for a year so hands together was the isolated issues for my brain. I move to John Thompson book 1 and have just finished it and started book 2 - and am very excited. I am positive, determined, and love learning the piano but everyday I worry that this will be it and I won't be able to do it or have the ability of my brain to do it or continue. I read in the postings that chopin's ballade 4 was perhaps one of most difficult pieces to play. Curious as a beginner, I went out and bought the music. And yes, it is impossible to understand. But I occasionally look at the music and I see it is in 6/8 time so I looked to see if I could count out a measure and, yes, I could count out the measure. No, I couldn't play it. I also saw lot of measures that had notes that were way, way, way below the staff on ledger lines. Now, daily I try to work at learning notes below and above the staff by always writing out the major scales - don't play them much yet - but I have learned to recognize instantly any notes 5 below and above the staff. Looking at difficult music, I learned that most but not all are an octave apart - which was a huge suprise. So now when ever I look at very difficult music and see notes hanging down below the bass clef I look at the top note and then sure enough it is an octave reach. I can't play it as a beginner but I am learning little things. All being well, I hope to be able to play something like chopin's ballade 4 in 10 years if I am able to do it, so I will be 74, if I am still alive. I should say that once I got through the two notes at one time issue - things improved and I have not had any show stoppers yet but there could be in the future of the unknown. I know that some people worry about starting piano late, but I can't think of anything more awesome to give your brain and you such an awesome journey of learning to play the piano. I have traveled the world a bit, but for me, now, traveling the keys of the piano is plenty enough for me.
Last edited by Michael_99; 07/04/13 07:25 AM.
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Just to up-date you on Mr. Prossnitz' position in Victoria : He will be returning permanently to Europe this summer, resigning his all-too-brief tenure as Head of the Keyboard Department at the Victoria Conservatory of Music.
Bruce, Is this just another example of the difficulties that smaller universities in more remote locations have in keeping the tip-top talent that sometimes comes their way? I say that very affectionately about Victoria, since I think it is a jewel of a town. Those difficulties often include (but are not limited to) lower pay, fewer tip-top colleagues than they would have at other places, and less access to a wider colleague network and broader cultural environment.
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When I got to page 24, my brain almost exploded...
Moments like that are great, aren't they? To return to the OP: That is a wonderful insight. It made me think about the concept of "enemy" and what we struggle against in our practicing and playing. Maybe it is a pyrrhic victory when we think we are winning, but some essence is lost from the music.
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