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Kawai VPC-1 availability #2111184
07/01/13 12:47 PM
07/01/13 12:47 PM
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UK
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Eggman Offline OP
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Thomann have changed the availability of the VPC-1 again. They had previously stated expected delivery of the next batch from Kawai as end of July. It's now changed to "expected delivery date is unfortunately unknown". I've been waiting 7 weeks for delivery of my order...so far.


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
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Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111299
07/02/13 01:20 AM
07/02/13 01:20 AM
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Eggman Offline OP
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I will be emailing Thomann later to see what happened to the end of July shipment. I seem to remember a few members are also waiting in Thomann for their Kawai VPC delivery. I will post the reply. Don't think I have waited this long for any piece of musical equipment before. Would appreciate any info regarding shipping dates from Kawai James.


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111305
07/02/13 01:28 AM
07/02/13 01:28 AM
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Rocky Mountains
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Oh don't worry. The Japanese Seven Dwarfs are working hard to get your order out. It's worth waiting for. If you want, Kawai can send Snow White over to keep you company while you're waiting. She's lonely with the Dwarfs working so much overtime.
Poor James is supposed to know shipping dates? Gee... You think you've been waiting long. I've been waiting longer on my Godzilla Metronome.


Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon
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Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111325
07/02/13 02:11 AM
07/02/13 02:11 AM
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I'm actually interested in chatting to anyone who has imported a VPC1 into Australia. They aren't available here, and I'm trying to gauge a suitable on-line seller and to hear other's experiences. It really irritates me that Kawai doesn't import all the models into the country, even as a special order.


stng
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111344
07/02/13 03:49 AM
07/02/13 03:49 AM
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Hi STNG, you might be better off importing from Asia. I have scoured European online music retailers for a stock VPC-1, no one as any real clue when they will get any stock. Most retailers first response is 2-3 days, then they back off when questioned.


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111426
07/02/13 08:44 AM
07/02/13 08:44 AM
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Thanks for the advice, Eggman. I've been reading about latency issues with computer based pianos, and that's making me nervous. I basically want a great action coupled to great sounds, but noticeable latency would make all that pointless. I can't seem to get a sense that latency is good enough to make the VPC1 something I'd buy sight unseen. Can anyone chip in with personal experience?


stng
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111444
07/02/13 09:25 AM
07/02/13 09:25 AM
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Eggman Offline OP
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Hi stng, I think it does depend on the type of computer you are trying to run a piano off. I have a 2009 27" i5 iMac and I can run kontakt and a large Imperfect Samples Faziolli grand piano without a feeling of lag. On the other hand I spent most of the early 2000's battling to get low latency on various windows PC and soundcards and never quite achieved a satisfactory result. I believe it is now possible but like I say I moved to a Mac back in 09. What I did learn at the end was it was mostly about the quality of the sound driver supplied with your audio card or external audio module. One thing for sure is the VPC-1 will not make the latency on your setup any worse so it is completely possible to test out running a software piano with your current set up and and without a VPC-1 to see if you can feel a lag.



Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: stng] #2111493
07/02/13 10:52 AM
07/02/13 10:52 AM
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Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by stng
Thanks for the advice, Eggman. I've been reading about latency issues with computer based pianos, and that's making me nervous. I basically want a great action coupled to great sounds, but noticeable latency would make all that pointless. I can't seem to get a sense that latency is good enough to make the VPC1 something I'd buy sight unseen. Can anyone chip in with personal experience?


My personal experience is that I did jump in with both feet and have never had a latency problem.

Now, having said that ... I purchased the recommended equipment (and then some).... a fast computer with a fast internal hard drive and a reasonably good audio interface. If you do that, I don't see a problem for you.

On the other hand, if you try to get by on the cheap ... you may run in to some issues that you have to work out ... meaning buy better equipment.

Some of the computer gurus on this site can tell you they are running and OLD COMPUTER from the early 60's with this and that attached and it works fine. Well, that may be ... but I wanted to avoid headaches. So, I got good stuff and never had a problem.

Note: An inexpensive way to get started with things is to download the demo version of Pianoteq and try it out with your present digital piano attached to the computer via MIDI and see how it goes. You do not need the VPC1 to see if your computer system is going to be good enough.



Last edited by dmd; 07/02/13 10:55 AM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111595
07/02/13 01:27 PM
07/02/13 01:27 PM
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Italy
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I've got mine half month ago... whistle

.... sorry, I couldn't resist! grin


GEM Promega 3 (sold) - Yamaha CLP 170 (sold) - Acuna88 (sold) - Kawai VPC1 + BK7m
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Qbert] #2111655
07/02/13 03:08 PM
07/02/13 03:08 PM
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France
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Originally Posted by Qbert
I've got mine half month ago... whistle

.... sorry, I couldn't resist! grin

Oh! Ivan... (me too grin )


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111678
07/02/13 03:53 PM
07/02/13 03:53 PM
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Eggman Offline OP
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Sob :-(


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111728
07/02/13 05:08 PM
07/02/13 05:08 PM
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France
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Hello Eggman,
Ok! it is true that we had a lot of luck ... Qbert thank you again;) and if the can help you: the VPC1 well worth that one patient.

A musician friend came to see me this Sunday (he owns a beautiful upright piano (130 cm H, I think) he had to pay it € 15,000) and despite everything, he was completely overwhelmed by the quality the VPC1 touch ...

Something else, I reported in another post I had this sensation of feeling the vibrations of the strings and the impact of hammers... well I confirm what I already knew: I 'm not crazy smile and this feeling (quite extraordinary I admit) is quite real.

What i mean by this, is that if i want to buy an instrument, i send this man to try it before... and this is the first time I bought a "big" thing without trying ... and you know what: I made a great purchase, and if I had to wait 2/3 months to get it, think it's worth the wait ...

Imagine that you will meet one of the great love of your life ... after a long wait: you'll like it even more wink

Regards


Kawai VPC1/Synthogy American D/Pianoteq 5 Pro/Galaxy Vintage D

"Remember to take the time ... before time takes you"
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: imyself] #2111748
07/02/13 06:06 PM
07/02/13 06:06 PM
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stng Offline
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Thanks for the guidance, guys. I didn't think of testing it with my current piano. That would really reassure me. I'll do that first and report back on my experience for others who might be in the same boat.

Simon


stng
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: imyself] #2111755
07/02/13 06:21 PM
07/02/13 06:21 PM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by imyself
A musician friend came to see me this Sunday (he owns a beautiful upright piano (130 cm H, I think) he had to pay it € 15,000) and despite everything, he was completely overwhelmed by the quality the VPC1 touch ...


There never has been any doubt, at least in my mind, about the quality of the keyboard touch in the VPC1. After all, it is a Kawai. That is one of their main claims to fame, at least in the digital area.

The only question, for me, is whether I can find a way to get a quality sound out of what I attach that VPC1 to. I have tried many of the software products and have yet to find one that I would be willing to keep as my one and only sound.

There are many possible reasons for that and my sound chain from generation to AIR is probably flawed. But, in any event, if I had to rely solely on software for sound, I am afraid I would not be a happy camper.

But, if you can, then ... absolutely ... the VPC1 is a winner for you. And, hopefully ... the software sounds should be improving with each new generation of sounds. You can just sit back with your VPC1 and enjoy the ride.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2111792
07/02/13 07:31 PM
07/02/13 07:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,615
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by Eggman
Would appreciate any info regarding shipping dates from Kawai James.


I'm afraid I do not have any further information to offer.

However, I encourage you to remain patient while the back-orders are filled. As noted previously, production has been ramped-up significantly, however it takes a while for things to filter through the system.

Your VPC1 is out there somewhere - either at the factory being assembled, or inside a shipping container bound for Europe - and once you receive it, I'm confident the lengthy wait will be thoroughly worthwhile.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Kawai James] #2111951
07/03/13 02:43 AM
07/03/13 02:43 AM
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Well, I said I'd report back on the experience of trying a software piano, and so I am.

I connected my Yamaha P-85 through a USB-MIDI interface to my iMac (3.2Ghz i5, 16GB DDR3 RAM, Fusion drive). I installed Pianoteq4 and used the default piano. I fed the output through (a) the computer's internal speakers, (b) a pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones and (c) via Airplay to an AppleTV and from there to a Linn Majik DSI driving a pair of Martin Logan Theos Electrostatics.

In all cases, I used a sample rate of 96KHz, an audiobuffer size of 128 samples (1.3ms) and a maximum polyphony of 256.

To test the CPU load, I held the sustain down and ran right along the key board. I got a polyphony of about 200, without any appreciable CPU load. I was attempting to see whether I could overload the CPU, introducing any artefacts.

In cases (a) and (b), there was no perceptible latency. I figure that the expected latency from a real piano to my ears would be approximately 1/700th of a second, or about 1.4ms. The only latency I detected was in case (c), and that was to do with the Airplay feed to the AppleTV.

The sound was a big step up from my P-85 internal sound. I also tested the sound by downloading some midi files from midiworld.com (Chopin and Beethoven samples), and the sound through my speakers (c) was fantastic. It felt like I had a piano in the room, although it wasn't perhaps as loud a real piano might have been.

All in all, a successful test.

I expect that the quality of the sound I'm hearing is impacted by the audio engine in the iMac (including the DAC) and the USB link. If I fed bit perfect data out to my amp, which has a much better DAC, it would probably sound better.

I'm not sure whether I'd get the same performance from a sample based software package (such as Ivory II), and I'm not sure whether the it would sound better either. But Pianoteq certainly works well.

Which all means that the VPC1 looks like a viable option. Now I only have to figure out what powered speakers I should use and how to get bit perfect data out of the iMac.

Simon


stng
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: stng] #2112009
07/03/13 06:10 AM
07/03/13 06:10 AM
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Thanks simon, very nice report. It would be nice to see how the fusion drive flairs with some of the sampled piano such as Ivory II or True Keys.


CA95, Sennheiser HD598
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2112119
07/03/13 10:57 AM
07/03/13 10:57 AM
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According to the Kraft Music website in the US (as of just now), the VPC1 is in stock. They also offer free shipping. The other US source, Sweetwater, doesn't have it in stock yet. They also don't offer free shipping on the pianos they don't have.


Jack
Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: stng] #2112176
07/03/13 12:22 PM
07/03/13 12:22 PM
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WOW! Those are speakers!
Originally Posted by stng
I connected my Yamaha P-85 ... to a Linn Majik DSI driving a pair of Martin Logan Theos Electrostatics.

Quite right. Pianoteq does not present much load to the computer:
Originally Posted by stng
To test the CPU load, I held the sustain down and ran right along the key board. I got a polyphony of about 200, without any appreciable CPU load. I was attempting to see whether I could overload the CPU, introducing any artefacts.

Originally Posted by stng
In cases (a) and (b), there was no perceptible latency. I figure that the expected latency from a real piano to my ears would be approximately 1/700th of a second, or about 1.4ms.
From piano to the ears takes much more than 1.4 msec. The strings-to-ear transit might be around that figure. But the hammer transit time is a good deal more. The total exceeds 10 msec, if memory serves. (There was a reference here, some time ago, to a scholarly paper on the subject. Worth a look.)

Originally Posted by stng
The sound was a big step up from my P-85 internal sound.
It's probably a big step up from ANY digital piano, bar none.

Originally Posted by stng
I'm not sure whether I'd get the same performance from a sample based software package (such as Ivory II), and I'm not sure whether the it would sound better either. But Pianoteq certainly works well.
I think Pianoteq is okay, but I prefer the sampled pianos. You should give them a try. I like the sound of the Galaxy series pianos. And they don't overload my computer. (I've not tried the Ivory II.)

Re: Kawai VPC-1 availability [Re: Eggman] #2112258
07/03/13 03:34 PM
07/03/13 03:34 PM
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Eggman Offline OP
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Joflah, thanks for the heads up on Kraft having stock of the Kawai VPC-1. Just been in touch with them and they have a supplier agreement not to ship outside the US :-(

Thomann have got back to me and they reckon I "might" get a delivery mid August but they are not confident since dates and quantities change without notice from Kawai.

Thanks again Joflah, much appreciated.


Kawai VPC1 | Imperfect Samples Walnut Steinway Concert Grand | Galaxy Vintage D | Pianoteq |
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