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Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
#2111302 07/02/13 12:24 AM
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Last edited by erichlof; 07/02/13 12:25 AM.
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111319 07/02/13 12:54 AM
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Wow, very interesting. I wonder if production of the actual pianos will change.

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111349 07/02/13 03:11 AM
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I'm guessing that there will be a slight surge in sales as many will want to secure an instrument before production gets shipped off to China with Boston and Essex.

Now then, if each of you were to donate a small sum to the Stores Foundation, perhaps I can afford that 90k beauty that's been sitting in the local gallery window for the longest time.



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Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
JoelW #2111435 07/02/13 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Wow, very interesting. I wonder if production of the actual pianos will change.


They say no, but we'll see.

Personally, I was surprised to hear the amount. $35/share seems a reasonable price for the stock, but I was surprised to hear the total market cap for LVB was only in the $450m range. (That makes it a small, low-cap stock.)

From what I've read, Kohlberg wants to focus on the international side of the company. I seriously doubt they'll do much with the New York factory, but I wouldn't be surprised if they opened a China factory and expand into Asian markets. The Essex pianos made in China have improved greatly in quality in the past few years, and the Chinese may very well be capable of building a piano worthy of the Steinway label at this point.


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Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111468 07/02/13 09:08 AM
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We?

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111518 07/02/13 10:23 AM
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They'll pull out of New York to harvest the capital in the real estate and move production to Mississippi, or more likely China, and Baldwinize the company. They'll extract everything of value possible. The Steinway name will become a luxury brand, think watches, luxury automobile editions, etc. They'll sell as much as possible in China, until the Chinese consumers figure out they're getting fraudulent goods.

They'll pay themselves million dollar salaries and bonuses, eventually declaring bankruptcy after they finish raping and pillaging the company.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and Samick will up the offer and buy them. Essex and Boston will move to Indonesia and the New York and Hamburg factories will remain operating, much like Seiler.

Last edited by Plowboy; 07/02/13 10:24 AM.

Gary
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
stores #2111542 07/02/13 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stores
I'm guessing that there will be a slight surge in sales as many will want to secure an instrument before production gets shipped off to China with Boston and Essex.

Now then, if each of you were to donate a small sum to the Stores Foundation, perhaps I can afford that 90k beauty that's been sitting in the local gallery window for the longest time.


And then I'll steal it!



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
Plowboy #2111590 07/02/13 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
They'll pull out of New York to harvest the capital in the real estate and move production to Mississippi, or more likely China, and Baldwinize the company. They'll extract everything of value possible. The Steinway name will become a luxury brand, think watches, luxury automobile editions, etc. They'll sell as much as possible in China, until the Chinese consumers figure out they're getting fraudulent goods.

They'll pay themselves million dollar salaries and bonuses, eventually declaring bankruptcy after they finish raping and pillaging the company.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and Samick will up the offer and buy them. Essex and Boston will move to Indonesia and the New York and Hamburg factories will remain operating, much like Seiler.


You seem somewhat pessimistic about the Kohlberg acquisition.


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Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
stores #2111597 07/02/13 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stores

Now then, if each of you were to donate a small sum to the Stores Foundation, perhaps I can afford that 90k beauty that's been sitting in the local gallery window for the longest time.


Time to schedule more concerts and recording dates, hmm? smile Intrigued to hear that D. 959 that you added to your rep. wink

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
Plowboy #2111606 07/02/13 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
They'll pull out of New York to harvest the capital in the real estate and move production to Mississippi, or more likely China, and Baldwinize the company. They'll extract everything of value possible. The Steinway name will become a luxury brand, think watches, luxury automobile editions, etc. They'll sell as much as possible in China, until the Chinese consumers figure out they're getting fraudulent goods.

They'll pay themselves million dollar salaries and bonuses, eventually declaring bankruptcy after they finish raping and pillaging the company.

Or maybe we'll get lucky and Samick will up the offer and buy them. Essex and Boston will move to Indonesia and the New York and Hamburg factories will remain operating, much like Seiler.

Don't kid yourself. Steinway already is a luxury good. wink

The rest is exactly what capital investment companies are known for. Their goal is not to secure American manufacturing. Their goal is to increase shareholder value. If they move production to China, and double sales in China, it makes a heck of a lot more sense to the company and its shareholders than to keep production in America and sell half the number of pianos.

It is interesting that this will be their most famous portfolio company, and by far their most well-known brand. That could be good.. or bad.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111624 07/02/13 01:13 PM
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If they keep the name and don't change ANYTHING in the two factories, nothing real will change.

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111629 07/02/13 01:19 PM
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Let's face it. 2 times 2 is four. So is the Hamburg Steinway a better quality instrument than the New York Steinway.

But, for the time being, I would never, ever, consider a Chinese (please no offense) built Steinway piano an equivalent quality piano to either the New York or the Hamburg Steinway.

I simply would not buy such an instrument, at that price level.

Let us hope that they continue to operate both the New York and Hamburg facilities.


Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
ClsscLib #2111634 07/02/13 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ClsscLib

You seem somewhat pessimistic about the Kohlberg acquisition.


Past experience with private equity investment groups.


Gary
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
Plowboy #2111642 07/02/13 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
Originally Posted by ClsscLib

You seem somewhat pessimistic about the Kohlberg acquisition.


Past experience with private equity investment groups.


This is NOT just a money making business. In fact it probably is not a wise business at this era.

How many of the Kohlberg people are in love with the sound of a Steinway piano? How important for them is the sound of a Steinway piano? Do they value the tradition?

Yes, in part this has to have a business aspect. But that must not be the main initiative. The love for making a high quality unique instrument should be the main objective.

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111668 07/02/13 02:32 PM
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There are a number of things that come to my mind when I think about this:

1) HOW BAD could the new "Steinways" be? We don't even know if the two factories will be shut down or not. (probably not is my guess)

2) Genuine Steinways still exist and TONS of them. There's no shortage. If cared for, every concert grand on Earth will outlast us all.

3) Steinway isn't the only fantastic piano out there...

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111675 07/02/13 02:46 PM
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This is beginning to sound like...buy Baldwin's pre Gibson era only, M&H before 1930's
etc..so now we'll have Steinway's pre Kohlberg era...

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
JoelW #2111683 07/02/13 03:00 PM
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A lot of truth here I think...

Originally Posted by JoelW
There are a number of things that come to my mind when I think about this:

1) HOW BAD could the new "Steinways" be? We don't even know if the two factories will be shut down or not. (probably not is my guess)

2) Genuine Steinways still exist and TONS of them. There's no shortage. If cared for, every concert grand on Earth will outlast us all.

3) Steinway isn't the only fantastic piano out there...


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
Kreisler #2111691 07/02/13 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kreisler
A lot of truth here I think...



Truth? Not at all.

There is a reason why Steinway is so popular than any other concert piano. It has somehow this unique sound that we can't find in any other brand. Most people love it inherently. It has some unique combination of things that touch our soul. A special character. A feeling of full satisfaction.

Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
erichlof #2111699 07/02/13 03:22 PM
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They would be immensly stupid, to just kill the sound and brand. However businesmanss, they are aware what is the strenght of the Steinway: not that this piano is in each concert hall, but the SOUND.

Everybody who is buying the art company, knows that there is something specific that one brand in strong, the other is not.

And yes, STeinway has something unique in it's sound. Perhaps the ability of being dark and bright at the same time, but according to the pianist will.

The other thing is, that without earning no company will survive.

Many of you are telling the story of Baldwin. OK, but Baldwin was known mainly in US. It's a big loss, but Steinway is a synonim of piano. Just go and ask random people "which piano maker do you know"
there are pepole which will tell "none" but the others which ARE NOT interested in music/pianos/pianism etc will say "Steinway... Steinwhatever... Something with S and sons"

To some poster above regardin Boston and Essex:
The first one is made by Kawai in Japan, the second in made by Yound Chang in China.

To the moderators:
Can you merge this topic with than oryginal one from the Piano Section?

Last edited by kapelli; 07/02/13 03:33 PM.
Re: Steinway is bought out... we now play a Kholberg
kapelli #2111705 07/02/13 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kapelli
They would be immensly stupid, to just kill the sound and brand. However businesmanss, they are aware what is the strenght of the Steinway: not that this piano is in each concert hall, but the SOUND.

Everybody who is buying the art company, knows that there is something specific that one brand in strong, the other is not.

And yes, STeinway has something unique in it's sound. Perhaps the ability of being dark and bright at the same time, but according to the pianist will.

The other thing is, that without earning no company will survive.

Many of you are telling the story of Baldwin. OK, but Baldwin was known mainly in US. It's a big loss, but Steinway is a synonim of piano. Just go and ask random people "which piano maker do you know"
there are pepole which will tell "none" but the others which ARE NOT interested in music/pianos/pianism etc will say "Steinway... Steinwhatever... Something with S and sons"

To the moderators:
Can you merge this topic with than oryginal one from the Piano Section?


thumb +1

And on top of it, we are so lucky to have TWO unique sounds.
Hamburg and New York.

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