Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
59 registered members (bluejei, alphonsus, Bambers, chopinoholic, 14 invisible), 1,668 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2109823 - 06/28/13 04:30 PM Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when?  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
MaggieGirl Offline
500 Post Club Member
MaggieGirl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
Just curious!

Last edited by MaggieGirl; 06/28/13 04:37 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2109833 - 06/28/13 04:47 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 970
dynamobt Offline
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 970
NH
As a student, I say, not with everything. But, there are some times it is almost manditory.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2109859 - 06/28/13 05:41 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
MaggieGirl Offline
500 Post Club Member
MaggieGirl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
What would be an example of a mandatory time to use one?

#2109863 - 06/28/13 05:45 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ten left thumbs  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
Scotland
I tend to use one in the first or second lesson. I just get them to turn it on, off, and slide the wee thingy up and down, guessing whether it makes it faster and slower. I'll sometimes do clapping rhythms to the 'nome.

If is is used for real playing, it is mostly to slow things down, or to prove to the student they really can't do it at the fast speed they want to go at.

But I have mostly beginners and I think serious players tend to use it more, and more wisely.

#2109868 - 06/28/13 05:54 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
MaggieGirl Offline
500 Post Club Member
MaggieGirl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
My daughter has only used one once when her brother insisted she use it (he had to play piano in school). Her teacher has never asked her to use one (which is fine by me), she is told to count when she plays.

#2109882 - 06/28/13 06:25 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 194
Joyce_dup1 Offline
Full Member
Joyce_dup1  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 194
Chicago
Yes, to help correct uneven scales. And to help develop speed.

#2109889 - 06/28/13 06:37 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
bzpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bzpiano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Irvine, CA
I use metronome on FIRST lesson. I asked new or transfer students to clap following the metronome, then I can tell if he can follow or not. For some people, internal rhythm is not something they born with, so, they need extra training.
Beginner books that I use has a CD that comes with it. It counted as "metronome" if student practice with it at home.
So to answer your question, yes, I use metronome from day 1 of piano lesson.


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
#2109894 - 06/28/13 06:42 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
missbelle Offline
Full Member
missbelle  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 233
USA
from the very first lessons, since a strong sense of rhythm is crucial!

I have two free metronome apps on my phone, and one of them has a space where you yourself can tap and it will tell you your speed. I can keep it fairly steady, but it is harder than you think!



Learning as I teach.
#2109918 - 06/28/13 08:32 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:
- How would you like your students to use the metronome, and when?
- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?

#2109926 - 06/28/13 08:47 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:

- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?


My personal opinion, which likely few agree with: never use it for incremental speedup. Example, a piece needs to be at q = 120, I can play it at 90, so I set metronome at 60, play through, move up to 61, play through, etc. Horrible! But widely praised in some circles.

Quote
- How would you like your students to use the metronome, and when?


At all other times! Hee, hee. But especially as a check for continuity between sections, and loss of the strong beat during syncopation. Or at any time rushing or dragging is not detected.

I use one fairly frequently, enough to calibrate my internal pulse.

I doubt any of my handbell ringers owns one. But I make them follow me, which hopefully has some of the same benefits.


gotta go practice
#2109982 - 06/28/13 10:59 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: TimR]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 386
Brinestone Offline
Full Member
Brinestone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 386
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:

- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?


My personal opinion, which likely few agree with: never use it for incremental speedup. Example, a piece needs to be at q = 120, I can play it at 90, so I set metronome at 60, play through, move up to 61, play through, etc. Horrible! But widely praised in some circles.



Can you expound on this? My teacher did this in high school with me, and it seemed to work great. I've used it once or twice with a student as well, and they seem to love the challenge and the discovery that, with practice, they can move the ticker up a few bpm.

To answer the original post, I use metronomes all the time. Rhythm is the #1 thing beginning students struggle with, in my experience. Metronomes don't work if you can't stay with them, so I've had to be wise about my use of them and not prescribe them without any guidance or explanation. Still, when used prudently, I find they're a great teaching tool.


Piano teacher since 2008, member of NFMC
#2109986 - 06/28/13 11:02 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: Brinestone]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
bzpiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bzpiano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Irvine, CA
Originally Posted by Brinestone
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?


My personal opinion, which likely few agree with: never use it for incremental speedup. Example, a piece needs to be at q = 120, I can play it at 90, so I set metronome at 60, play through, move up to 61, play through, etc. Horrible! But widely praised in some circles.


Can you expound on this? My teacher did this in high school with me, and it seemed to work great. I've used it once or twice with a student as well, and they seem to love the challenge and the discovery that, with practice, they can move the ticker up a few bpm.


I have same question mark as you Brinestone!! I do not understand why would be it be horrible, maybe Tim can enlighten us.

smile


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
#2110046 - 06/29/13 02:31 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014
Bobpickle  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Cameron Park, California


"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#2110074 - 06/29/13 05:14 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Michael_99  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Canada Alberta
I have a drum machine, metronomes - but when I began learning the piano - I have never used a metronome because when I had a sax teacher, he taught me to count through the measures.

Now I can't afford a teacher, but when I began piano I was very careful of about knowing the note values and counting the note values through the measures.

So two things occurred. I learned how to read and play the music accurately so I didn't need a recording to listen to how it was supposed to sound.

And I didn't need a metronome because I soon could feel the note values within my body.

Increasing ones ability to play faster is done very slowly over a long period of time/practice, so it isn't the metronome that is of any help in the speed building.

But people who haven't learned note values and knowing how to count and play through the measures accurately are in lots of trouble until they have learned that knowledge.

But when one gets to very complicated music at Presto/200, it may be that a metronome could be used for checking accuracy, but if you play a piece slowly and accurately, you should still be okay as you are speed building if you play in the same fashion - except that as humans we can go slower and faster related to performance, fear, etc. - another issue.

I know when I play I can immediately hear the slightist error of timing.


#2110098 - 06/29/13 07:08 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 970
dynamobt Offline
500 Post Club Member
dynamobt  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 970
NH
Gee, incremental speed up is one of the situations I feel a metronome is manditory. I know it has helped me with Bach and Mozart especially. I also feel that if a metronome is not used during the learning of a piece, it can be very revealing to use it to reveal rushed measures in a nearly finished piece.

Believe it or not, I used to have a riding instructor who had people keep set of keys in there pocket during trotting to help maintain a steady rhythm. Even when heeling a dog for competition it can be helpful to establish and then maintain a steady pace.

Some students have an internal metronome and can keep a beat. Others have to acquire that skill through the use of counting and a metronome. Also, if used early, students get over the fear of using one. It can be a very valuable tool in a student's learning. They should get comfortable using one. Because, it's just a aid and not a big deal to use one.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2110126 - 06/29/13 09:13 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 221
MomOfBeginners Offline
Full Member
MomOfBeginners  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 221
California, USA
I am not a piano teacher, but I use it to slow down my daughter's playing.

Sometimes she works on a short section (say 2-4 measures) and keeps tripping over that section. She tends to keep playing that section again in high speed incorrectly, even when I ask her to slow it down.

But if I set the metronome on a slow speed, and ask her to play that short section following the metronome, she will play that section correctly.


Mom of Two Girls Who Used to Be Beginners
#2110155 - 06/29/13 10:59 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 230
tend to rush Offline
Full Member
tend to rush  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 230
Not a teacher, either, but as one who uses a metronome in regular practice, I think that speed should only be increased as one gets sufficient command of a piece that the current tempo becomes maddeningly slow. I think it would be a mistake to increase the tempo in an effort to "push" yourself to be able to play it faster. That would seem to go against all we've ever been told about the value of slow practice. Really, once you've achieved thorough command of a piece, playing it faster is pretty easy.

From the introduction to the MacFarren Scale and Arpeggio Manual (1915):
"Slow practice is GOLDEN; quick practice is LEADEN".

#2110178 - 06/29/13 11:56 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: tend to rush]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 386
Brinestone Offline
Full Member
Brinestone  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 386
Tend to rush, I love the way you worded this. I am trying to tell my students that all the time, but they don't believe me and "tend to rush." I am tempted to print it up in a pretty font and frame it by my piano. (Okay, maybe not really.)


Piano teacher since 2008, member of NFMC
#2110353 - 06/29/13 09:01 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: Brinestone]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Brinestone
Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:

- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?


My personal opinion, which likely few agree with: never use it for incremental speedup. Example, a piece needs to be at q = 120, I can play it at 90, so I set metronome at 60, play through, move up to 61, play through, etc. Horrible! But widely praised in some circles.



Can you expound on this? My teacher did this in high school with me, and it seemed to work great.


It can work, and it can be counterproductive. I'm short of time, but I'll try to explain a couple of my ideas briefly.

It can work when the main impediment to fast play is unfamiliarity with the piece, rather than lack of technique or incorrect technique. Rostropovich was said to have started learning pieces very slowly, yet clearly he had all the necessary technique to play at tempo.

Caveat: I think like a brass player, not a pianist.

Back to my example: my requirement is 120, my top speed is 90, so I'm going to drop down to 60 and speed up one beat at a time. I'll move right past 90 so slowly I don't even notice.

Q: Why is my current top speed 90? A: Because I'm doing something wrong.

So what happens on the 30 repetitions between 60 and 90 as I speed up incrementally? Practice makes permanent, and I'm practicing the techniques that I've already proven don't work at speed until they are perfect.

I'll usually get past 90, maybe to 95, or even 100. Wrong technique thoroughly practiced can be pushed a little faster. But then you hit a plateau. In the brass world, sometimes for years. Once you've learned something very very well you sometimes build in a speed wall that's hard to get past, sometimes impossible.

Now, another thing happened on those 30 repetitions. You become fatigued, mentally and physically. Fatigue can create error, and error can deviate from wrong technique into right technique. So this approach can sometimes work, for an unusual reason. But there are far more efficient ways.


gotta go practice
#2110443 - 06/30/13 02:59 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014
Bobpickle  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Cameron Park, California
a rephrasing of Tim's answer and a discussion on speed walls and a tunnel-vision reliance on metronomic incremental speed-ups: http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=4282.msg39817#msg39817 (i.e. it's in the motions; don't practice slow - practice in slow motion)


"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#2110623 - 06/30/13 12:34 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: TimR]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
Originally Posted by TimR


It can work, and it can be counterproductive. I'm short of time, but I'll try to explain a couple of my ideas briefly.

It can work when the main impediment to fast play is unfamiliarity with the piece, rather than lack of technique or incorrect technique. Rostropovich was said to have started learning pieces very slowly, yet clearly he had all the necessary technique to play at tempo.

...........

Back to my example: my requirement is 120, my top speed is 90, so I'm going to drop down to 60 and speed up one beat at a time. I'll move right past 90 so slowly I don't even notice.

Q: Why is my current top speed 90? A: Because I'm doing something wrong.

So what happens on the 30 repetitions between 60 and 90 as I speed up incrementally? Practice makes permanent, and I'm practicing the techniques that I've already proven don't work at speed until they are perfect.

I'll usually get past 90, maybe to 95, or even 100. Wrong technique thoroughly practiced can be pushed a little faster. But then you hit a plateau. .............
Now, another thing happened on those 30 repetitions. You become fatigued, mentally and physically.


For the last part, which I've highlighted, am I right in understanding that you are talking about speeding up from 60 to 90, notch by notch, in one sitting on the same day? I can see that that wouldn't work well, for the reason you've stated.

I'm also imagining starting slowly and speeding up to happen over days of practising, and that this practising will include other things. Practising slowly is for the sake of doing things right and having the time to do so. Therefore the technical issues should also be ironed out during your slow practice, in sections. If you are a student taking lessons then hopefully your teacher will point out what you need to work on, and how (physical and strategy). If not you have to figure this out on your own. If you do that, then the technical question you've mentioned is being taken care of. (?) Working only on speeding up would not work very well.

#2110701 - 06/30/13 03:36 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
MaggieGirl Offline
500 Post Club Member
MaggieGirl  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 625
Thanks for all the links! That was a lot of reading this morning. laugh

#2110756 - 06/30/13 05:03 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Michael_99  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Canada Alberta
I addressed the metronome on the context of smoothing out the playing, but speed building as others have said is a slow process.

Whenever you play, it is important to be relaxed. So when you determine the speed that you can play the piece at relaxed and without error, of course, you then increase slowly no more than 5 increments at a time. At the point that you begin to make errors, you have drop the speed to level of having no errors. Speed building has nothing to with the fingers, but the brain nd the brain learns slowly over time.

Generally, you have to be able to play at 20 increments higher than the speed you want to play at to allow - you - your brain to be relaxed and you are able to play without errors.

The time involved is not specific but generally, it takes a month or 2 at 60 to 70, 70 to 80, etc up to 120. for instance. But at speeds of 120 to 200, Presto, it can take 6 months or more, of course, depending on the complexity of the piece, easy for Mary a little lamb and very difficult to play Chopin's Ballade No. 4 at 200. So the higher the speed the longer it takes to increase the speed in small increments.



Last edited by Michael_99; 06/30/13 05:05 PM.
#2110769 - 06/30/13 05:18 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15,048
Canada
I have to admit that I had a couple of things in mind when I asked this question:
Originally Posted by keystring
I'm wondering if an addition to that question might be:
- How would you like your students to use the metronome, and when?
- How would you like them NOT to use the metronome?


What I've heard from more than one teacher as that they do NOT want their students playing with the metronome running, as a general rule. In fact, I did that for a while and it was a dismal failure because I just ignored it (as was pointed out to me one day). Rather, the idea was to use the metronome some of the time to get an idea of the tempo of something, to work with it maybe when not playing the music, or checking yourself after playing a bit.

Part of the idea was for a student to get a feeling for pulse and meter, rather than relying on an external device, and I think also the danger of "playing metronomically". There were times, however, where in certain situations playing with the metronome was called for.

#2110887 - 06/30/13 09:43 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: keystring]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
Virginia, USA
I also hear people talking the other side of it - they don't want to play with the the metronome because it might cause them to become robotic and unable to be musically expressive.

That may be so for some people, but I think it is used as an excuse by people who find playing with a metronome difficult and want to avoid learning to do so.

At least for some people a metronome can be a step along the way to learning to play with others.


gotta go practice
#2110891 - 06/30/13 10:10 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: Michael_99]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,947
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Michael_99
At the point that you begin to make errors, you have drop the speed to level of having no errors.


Well, no.

If your requirement is to make no errors, then you have to simplify.

You can do that through dropping the speed.

You can simplify many other ways as well. You can go HS, you can skeletonize, you can chunk, you can drop notes, you can loop, etc.

One thing I do frequently is to play a difficult passage at tempo, but reducing it to a small piece, or reducing the changes of notes.

For example. Here's a piece from the brass players world. Sorry about that, I know this is a piano forum, but... we're all musicians here. It's not a virtuoso solo piece, it's simply a difficult piece from the standard band repertoire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIgjAY55k1g

Rolling Thunder is a classic circus tempo march, normally played at 160. It's a bit demanding for us trombone players - while I don't expect to ever make a mistake sightreading a Sousa march, this is a different challenge that took considerable effort to play at tempo. The trumpet player is pressing a valve down half an inch, I'm moving a heavy slide a couple of feet.

Playing this one at 80 and incrementing a beat at a time, or steps of 5 or 10 will never get you to tempo. Sorry, I've seen people work for years and not get there. I just had a conversation with a good musician who's worked on lip trills out of Arban with the incremental method for 40 years, and didn't succeed.

Well, there's a caveat here too, I guess. Take an highly skilled trombone player skilled at the genre and let him incrementally speed up, he'll get there with the stepwise motion. The other 98% of trombone players will never play this one.

When I worked this one up, I set the metronome to 160, final tempo. I played the first pattern, but on the first two notes. Hard to explain, and so easy to show! There are 13 notes in the first run. I played the first two notes, but continued to play the second note at tempo for the next 11 notes as if I were moving. C-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F-F Then the first 3 notes in rhythm, and repeated the 3rd note on the rhythm of the next 10. Etc. Master four measures at a time - but sometimes I had to master two notes at a time.

Doing this shows immediately where the difficulty lies. The transition between some notes is easy and others near impossible - and can usually be fixed with a correct fingering choice and a lot of practice.

What I'm saying is yes, you have to simplify; but don't fall into the trap of thinking slowing down is the only way to simplify.

It can be the worst way to simplify.

Once the correct motions at speed are understood, slowing down is often the best way to get real control. But as a first step, particularly for a beginner, it can be very limiting.

I have other objections but they are more philosophical so I'll spare you.


gotta go practice
#2110896 - 06/30/13 10:26 PM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,106
PianoStudent88 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
PianoStudent88  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,106
Maine
Don't stop there! I'd like to hear your philosophical objections.


Piano Career Academy - Ilinca Vartic teaches the Russian school of piano playing
Musical-U - guidance for increasing musicality
Theta Music Trainer - fun ear training games
#2111980 - 07/03/13 03:09 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,247
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,247
Orange County, CA
Wow, there's quite a bit of nonsense in this thread so far.

1. Do you feel students need to use a metronome?

It depends on the student. Some kids innately have a strong sense of pulse, so it would be ludicrous to impose something that the kid doesn't need. On the other extreme, some kids (and adults) have ZERO sense of pulse, and no matter now much you try to shove metronomes down their throats, nothing will help.

Sometimes it's a brain development thing, and you just have to wait it out. It's like Algebra--some kids can do it in 4th grade, most kids can do it in 8th grade, and some kids can't ever do it (and in California that means you don't get to graduate from high school).


2. If so, when?

Two things:
Can the kid clap steadily? Can the kid clap with a metronome? Generally speaking, this happens when the kid turns 8 or 9. Of course, some kids can do it earlier, and some kids will never be able to do it. It really depends on the individual student.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#2111993 - 07/03/13 04:12 AM Re: Do you feel students need to use a metronome? If so when? [Re: MaggieGirl]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member
btb  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,264
Pretoria South Africa
Using a metronome is like having blinkers on ...
no peripheral vision.

And to think that the mighty Beethoven supported it’s first use
after first being patented by Johann Maelzel in 1815.









Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
New Baldwin 7 foot grand
by 7naturals. 11/22/17 01:23 AM
Moonlight Sonata Sostenuto
by Weiyan. 11/22/17 12:53 AM
Experience with Redbird, Concertpianos, and “Maestro”?
by Duke of Dunning. 11/21/17 06:26 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,879
Posts2,673,435
Members89,168
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0