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#2079811 - 05/09/13 11:01 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Dipsy Offline
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I'll give that a try - thanks SamS and Morodiene.


Cas - thanks for all the comments on the mendelssohn - the feedback was very encouraging to read.

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#2079829 - 05/09/13 11:49 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Dipsy- my pleasure to give feedback. I think I'm about half way through listening - more to come! It is certainly an even greater pleasure to listen to all the performers. I love the tremendous effort folks put into learning pieces that were very challenging, and the success with which they managed to do so.

I've been reading the last few posts, and looking at the scores in my new book --- I think I'm going to flag it with post it notes so that I can easily find what the others are talking about. Great fun.



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#2079834 - 05/09/13 11:54 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Sam S]  
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Originally Posted by Sam S
You probably know this already, but 3 and against 2 is "not di-fi-cult". Say that out loud, over and over. Tap left hand on "not" and "fi", right hand on "not", "di", "cult". 3 against 2!

Not necessarily, at least not with the durations that I naturally give the syllables. I tend to come out with an eighth note followed by triplet sixteenths.

For me, I have to already know how 2 against 3 sounds to give "not difficult" the right rhythm.

My attempts at 2 against 3 are to count a quick 1-2-3 for the beat or beats that has the three. Then count 1-2-&-3, and the second note of the duplet comes on &:

For the 2 in RH and the 3 in LH:
Code
1     2  &  3
RH       RH 
LH    LH    LH

If you need all the "&'s", that's
Code
1  &  2  &  3  &
RH       RH 
LH    LH    LH

Once I understand what the rhythm is, then using the phrase "not difficult" might be helpful. But if I already understand the rhythm well enough to say "not difficult" in the correct rhythm, then I've gone a long way towards internalizing the rhythm and may not need the words at all.


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#2079861 - 05/09/13 01:22 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Please include me in the book addict club! It's really rather ridiculous around here. Musically, I'm always snapping up deals (like the Scarlatti, Brahms, Satie, Chopin collections I can't play, or the 4-for-3 deals), or things I just get fixated on, whether I can play them or not. The local orchestra is having their annual book fair next week, so I know I am in for trouble! And as far as regular books, between me and BillyO - our bookshelves are overflowing, and there are piles of books on the floor in every room. And I'm getting another shipment today.

Back to Grieg! Started on mine. I am trying to go very very slowly.. my pinky has to play over everything else! Should be interesting to see how it pans out. No tricky timing, really, so I'm safe there. But it is a new challenge, and I'm rather excited about it.

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#2080122 - 05/10/13 01:14 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Originally Posted by Rostosky
wow ganddalf you have been working on your piece since 1968? what chance has anyone else got with only till this september!! lol.


Good for you that this is not a competition grin

#2080712 - 05/11/13 08:47 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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not ..... fi
not dif .....cult

not ..... fi
not dif ......cult


not .... fi
not dif ...... cult

yes it is! (at the moment at any rate). I need a calmer mind to focus for this.
The weather here (sun, showers and a gusty breeze) keeps changing, and every time the sun peeps out it feels like I should go outside

Last edited by Dipsy; 05/11/13 08:54 AM.
#2080719 - 05/11/13 09:03 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Hello all smile Not been around for a while, been real busy. Struggling with my chosen piece, not sure if I can do this lol.

And now I have a non sounding key, (well it does if I hit it lol) Anyways, off to make a new thread, see if I can get some help, laters folks smile


#2080756 - 05/11/13 10:12 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Ganddalf - wow since 1968! I'm so looking forward to listening to it. It is my second favorite after Butterfly.

I'm waiting for my book to be delivered next week but tried the version downloaded off the Internet this morning. Both Puck and Summer's Eve weren't so bad. I need to bring out a child within me to play Puck:) to play it well. My goal is to play Puck rythimically correct and all the articulations etc which will bring out the energy & movement within the piece. Summer's eve is totally different. I will have lots of fun with plenty of rubato.

I do have questions for those folks who already got the books. In measure 16 of Puck, the last note C does not have natural sign on it but after the whole measure rest in measure 18, C has flat on it. I played measure 16 both ways, with and without flat. IMHO it sounds better to play without flat first time and add flat back on in measure 18. Similar pattern comes back later in the piece. I'm not count the measures for that. I think it is a printing mistake. So I will play it with what I think it right until I know which is the right way.



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3) Chopin a flat major Ballade (schubert Impromptu A flat D935 No2)
4) Scriabin op11 prelude #2 and #14 (Re do #2, new #14)
5) Bartok. 4 old tunes and Scherzo)
#2080763 - 05/11/13 10:21 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: FarmGirl]  
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Originally Posted by FarmGirl
Ganddalf - wow since 1968! I'm so looking forward to listening to it. It is my second favorite after Butterfly.

I'm waiting for my book to be delivered next week but tried the version downloaded off the Internet this morning. Both Puck and Summer's Eve weren't so bad. I need to bring out a child within me to play Puck:) to play it well. My goal is to play Puck rythimically correct and all the articulations etc which will bring out the energy & movement within the piece. Summer's eve is totally different. I will have lots of fun with plenty of rubato.

I do have questions for those folks who already got the books. In measure 16 of Puck, the last note C does not have natural sign on it but after the whole measure rest in measure 18, C has flat on it. I played measure 16 both ways, with and without flat. IMHO it sounds better to play without flat first time and add flat back on in measure 18. Similar pattern comes back later in the piece. I'm not count the measures for that. I think it is a printing mistake. So I will play it with what I think it right until I know which is the right way.


In bar 16, the flat for the C is just in the key signature, then there is a one bar rest, and in bar 18 the 3rd note is a C (actually 2 ...C3 and C4) both of which are marked flat. I don't see why it is marked, as there is no natural sign.... they should just all be flats, shouldn't they?

I've never played a piece in a key with six flats! ... I don't even know off the top of my head which key it is!...(Ok, I had to count round the circle of 4ths on my fingers. Gflat ! lol)


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#2080817 - 05/11/13 11:41 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Remembrances Op 71 no 7 is coming right along. Granted, I picked early, so was able to get an easy one. But I'm discovering there is a lot more to the piece besides getting the right notes!! My teacher is working with me on this. So, I should have it ready well before the deadline. Well, especially since my piece comes last of all!!!

These pieces are well named as "lyric pieces". I've listened to quite a few now on YouTube. Beautiful haunting melodies in some of them.

I'm so glad to have found PW!! Now I know that if for any reason I was not still taking lessons, I would still have a place to share my music and motivation to keep learning!!! I'm having loads of fun!!


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#2080855 - 05/11/13 12:37 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: FarmGirl]  
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Originally Posted by FarmGirl

I do have questions for those folks who already got the books. In measure 16 of Puck, the last note C does not have natural sign on it but after the whole measure rest in measure 18, C has flat on it. I played measure 16 both ways, with and without flat. IMHO it sounds better to play without flat first time and add flat back on in measure 18. Similar pattern comes back later in the piece. I'm not count the measures for that. I think it is a printing mistake. So I will play it with what I think it right until I know which is the right way.


FarmGirl, I have the Peters Urtext edition. it's a c natural in measure 16 and a c flat in measure 18. The "melody" is going down (in octaves) starting in measure 15. F, E flat, d flat, c natural, c flat, all leading up to the big forte in measure 19 on b flat.

Notice that the pattern is repeated in measure 74 in a different key. the progression is down again, going b flat, a flat, g flat, f natural, f flat, all leading to the big fortissimo on e flat in measure 78.

Sam

#2080993 - 05/11/13 05:46 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: FarmGirl]  
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Originally Posted by FarmGirl
Ganddalf - wow since 1968! I'm so looking forward to listening to it. It is my second favorite after Butterfly.


In fact, "Wedding day" was the first classical piano piece I played. After some 6 years with the pump organ, mostly playing church music, my parents traded the organ for a piano. My first two years on the piano I spent mostly on pop music and musicals, playing by ear. Then I got the Grieg score as a Christmas gift. I learnt to play it in very short time, but did it really badly. I played fast, skipped many notes and covered up mistakes by overusing the pedal. Hopefully I have slightly improved since then.

#2080995 - 05/11/13 05:48 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Ganddalf]  
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Originally Posted by Ganddalf
Originally Posted by FarmGirl
Ganddalf - wow since 1968! I'm so looking forward to listening to it. It is my second favorite after Butterfly.


In fact, "Wedding day" was the first classical piano piece I played. After some 6 years with the pump organ, mostly playing church music, my parents traded the organ for a piano. My first two years on the piano I spent mostly on pop music and musicals, playing by ear. Then I got the Grieg score as a Christmas gift. I learnt to play it in very short time, but did it really badly. I played fast, skipped many notes and covered up mistakes by overusing the pedal. Hopefully I have slightly improved since then.
Hmm, now we know what to be listening for wink

I love this piece, by the way, and will probably be inspired to learn it after this recital smile


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#2081006 - 05/11/13 05:59 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Sam S]  
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Originally Posted by Sam S


FarmGirl, I have the Peters Urtext edition. it's a c natural in measure 16 and a c flat in measure 18. The "melody" is going down (in octaves) starting in measure 15. F, E flat, d flat, c natural, c flat, all leading up to the big forte in measure 19 on b flat.

Notice that the pattern is repeated in measure 74 in a different key. the progression is down again, going b flat, a flat, g flat, f natural, f flat, all leading to the big fortissimo on e flat in measure 78.

Sam

I've got the Dover edition and it doesn't show the C natural in bar 16, or the F natural in bar 74!

This is rather disconcerting! I wonder how many other errors there are!


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#2081051 - 05/11/13 08:09 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Morodiene]  
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Ganddalf
I played fast, skipped many notes and covered up mistakes by overusing the pedal.
Hmm, now we know what to be listening for wink


*coff coff* Fast, clean left hand arpeggios in polyrhythm at the end of the main theme and restatement smile

Pressure's on Ganddalf!


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#2081184 - 05/12/13 02:49 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Whizbang]  
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Originally Posted by Whizbang
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Ganddalf
I played fast, skipped many notes and covered up mistakes by overusing the pedal.
Hmm, now we know what to be listening for wink


*coff coff* Fast, clean left hand arpeggios in polyrhythm at the end of the main theme and restatement smile

Pressure's on Ganddalf!


Well, being native Norwegian and with piano experience since 1966 I should accept a "handicap" in an ABF recital with Grieg music. And when comes to the time of comments and feedback, I'll be more than happy if I get some constructive critisism.

#2081231 - 05/12/13 06:38 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Ganddalf]  
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by Ganddalf
Originally Posted by Whizbang
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Ganddalf
I played fast, skipped many notes and covered up mistakes by overusing the pedal.
Hmm, now we know what to be listening for wink


*coff coff* Fast, clean left hand arpeggios in polyrhythm at the end of the main theme and restatement smile

Pressure's on Ganddalf!


Well, being native Norwegian and with piano experience since 1966 I should accept a "handicap" in an ABF recital with Grieg music. And when comes to the time of comments and feedback, I'll be more than happy if I get some constructive critisism.
I doubt I'll have any, you play so well! smile


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#2081315 - 05/12/13 09:45 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Andy and Cheryl
Thank you for checking the score you have. I'm happy that at least one edition (Peters) confirms my thought about the flat. I think Dover edition was a little sloppy. When I saw the flat sign on measure 18 and did not see natural sign in measure 16, I thought hmm, they probably missed or did not
bother natural in measure 16 since the flat is in the key signature. So I played it in both ways and the way I thought it should be (measure 16 without flat) sounded better. As Andy mentioned there is similar pattern towards the end. Thanks again



1) Bach c minor fantasy
2) Beethoven sonata g major 14 No. 2 (re do)
3) Chopin a flat major Ballade (schubert Impromptu A flat D935 No2)
4) Scriabin op11 prelude #2 and #14 (Re do #2, new #14)
5) Bartok. 4 old tunes and Scherzo)
#2081347 - 05/12/13 10:36 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Rossy, in the next list update, please take my name off of the 57/1 Vanished Days as a second choice. The Peace of the Woods will be enough for me I think for this recital. Vanished Days is beautiful but more that I want to take on in the next few months. I hope it gets picked up by someone though because it is a lovely piece! Thanks! thumb

#2081355 - 05/12/13 11:01 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: FarmGirl]  
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Originally Posted by FarmGirl
Andy and Cheryl
Thank you for checking the score you have. I'm happy that at least one edition (Peters) confirms my thought about the flat. I think Dover edition was a little sloppy. When I saw the flat sign on measure 18 and did not see natural sign in measure 16, I thought hmm, they probably missed or did not
bother natural in measure 16 since the flat is in the key signature. So I played it in both ways and the way I thought it should be (measure 16 without flat) sounded better. As Andy mentioned there is similar pattern towards the end. Thanks again


You're welcome FarmGirl --- what is "interesting" is that on the back cover of my book it ways "...reprinted here from the original editions published by C.F. Peters of Leipzig...."

I will mark my text, and hope that when I play any other pieces I have a good enough ear to recognize any other glitches! Time will tell!


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#2081390 - 05/12/13 12:27 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Valencia]  
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Originally Posted by Valencia
Rossy, in the next list update, please take my name off of the 57/1 Vanished Days as a second choice. The Peace of the Woods will be enough for me I think for this recital. Vanished Days is beautiful but more that I want to take on in the next few months. I hope it gets picked up by someone though because it is a lovely piece! Thanks! thumb


Well that was timely!

If you don't mind, Valencia, I'll seize the opportunity and take your liberated 57,1 as my first choice - I've been getting progressively disenchanted with my 62,6 (Homeward) which is brisk but too happy for my current mood.

So, Rossy, if you could make the change for me then? My first choice changes from 62,6 to 57,1
Cheers, mate!

#2081516 - 05/12/13 05:34 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: dire tonic]  
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
Originally Posted by Valencia
Rossy, in the next list update, please take my name off of the 57/1 Vanished Days as a second choice. The Peace of the Woods will be enough for me I think for this recital. Vanished Days is beautiful but more that I want to take on in the next few months. I hope it gets picked up by someone though because it is a lovely piece! Thanks! thumb


Well that was timely!

If you don't mind, Valencia, I'll seize the opportunity and take your liberated 57,1 as my first choice - I've been getting progressively disenchanted with my 62,6 (Homeward) which is brisk but too happy for my current mood.

So, Rossy, if you could make the change for me then? My first choice changes from 62,6 to 57,1
Cheers, mate!


Yay! I'm glad you picked up this piece dire tonic! smile From the little bit of dabbling I did with the score, I found it beautiful but very challenging, so am relieved that it is passed on to you! Enjoy!

#2081517 - 05/12/13 05:37 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Dipsy]  
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Two questions: Is it better to learn from a published urtext of this piece or a copy of it from Imslp? I was currently working from a copy from Imslp, but I have see quite a few comments about purchasing a copy of the music. Secondly, I haven't played a piece in 6/8 before and I am having a little trouble transforming my knowledge of the mathematical structure to one of actually playing the notes. I know my teacher could answer all these questions, but I was trying to work on the first page so that I was a little more familiar with the piece before my next lesson, so we could work on more specific things in the lesson.

#2081524 - 05/12/13 05:50 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: IreneAdler]  
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Originally Posted by IreneAdler

Two questions: Is it better to learn from a published urtext of this piece or a copy of it from Imslp? I was currently working from a copy from Imslp, but I have see quite a few comments about purchasing a copy of the music.


I believe the IMSLP version is Peters, which appears to be urtext from a previous poster who is working from this score, so you should be fine.
Quote
Secondly, I haven't played a piece in 6/8 before and I having a little trouble transforming my knowledge of the mathematical structure to one of actually playing the notes. I know my teacher could answer all these questions, but I was trying to work on the first page so that I was a little more familiar with the piece before my next lesson, so we could work on more specific things in the lesson.
You will want to look for the shortest note value to figure out how you should count this. Luckily the rhythm seems to repeat itself quite a bit so if you learn the first measure the inner and lower voices remain the same rhythmically. Just to top note (melody) changes. I would ignore the grace notes for now until you get the rhythm down. It's not hard to add them in later as long as you make fingering choices when not playing them to account for an extra finger available to play it (hope that makes sense).

Also, looks like you only have a few 16th notes (which would mean you'd have to add the 'and' in between the counting of the beats, so 1+2+3+4+5+6+ just in those measures). Otherwise, you just count 123456. 8th notes get one beat, quarters get two beats, dotted quarters get 3, dotted half notes the whole 6 beats.


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#2081531 - 05/12/13 06:09 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Morodiene]  
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Peters was the original publisher for the lyric pieces, so editions or scans of the Peters scores should be pretty good. The edition I have was published in 2007 and is titled the Piano Works Volume I, Lyric Pieces, and is an urtext version. Which doesn't mean that it is free of errors, just that the editors tried to get as close as possible to the original score.

Sam

#2081542 - 05/12/13 06:37 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
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Just got my copy of Sailors Song. I hope I didn't bite off more than I can chew!


Adult beginner since January 2013. My only regret is that I didn't learn sooner.
#2081550 - 05/12/13 06:46 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: IreneAdler]  
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Originally Posted by IreneAdler

Secondly, I haven't played a piece in 6/8 before and I having a little trouble transforming my knowledge of the mathematical structure to one of actually playing the notes.

I just printed out the score, played through part of it (slowly wink ) and then listened to a couple of performances to make sure.

A bit of theory first. There's a kind of time signature which I learned as "compound time" where the top number is a multiple of three: 6/8, 9/8 and 12/8*. Each "three" (eighths in this case) forms one beat as if there were triplets, so 6/8 time has two beats [(1+1+1) (1+1+1)]. Well, like this:
[Linked Image]

If you look at the bass, you get a relentless rhythm:
1--2--3-- / 1-- 2--3
long-short long-short

You can feel these beats of (long-short) (long-short) in the bass and lower notes in the treble. Your melody has its own rhythm, but even it falls inside this feeling of three-pulse beats.

I don't usually like animated scores because they're sort of mechanical, but you can really see this long-short rhythm here. A lot of the more sophisticated performances were less rigid.


* Not every piece with these signatures have this kind of triplet timing, but many do.

#2081581 - 05/12/13 07:51 PM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: FarmGirl]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by FarmGirl
Andy and Cheryl
I think you mean Sam, not Andy!


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2081814 - 05/13/13 09:18 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: Rostosky]  
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,628
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
sinophilia  Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,628
Italy
I have a stupid question...
In this measure, is the second grace note F#, like the note preceding it, or F natural?

[Linked Image]



Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
http://soundcloud.com/sinophilia
[Linked Image]
#2081822 - 05/13/13 09:29 AM Re: Grieg recital: Proposal..... [Re: sinophilia]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by sinophilia
I have a stupid question...
In this measure, is the second grace note F#, like the note preceding it, or F natural?

[Linked Image]



Your case is 100% clear. The main note has an F#, the grace must too.

If it were the other way around, it would perhaps be less clear. Accidentals within ornamentation is slightly open to interpretation but the general rule is: If the accidental occurs within the staff (including ledger lines), it carries forward. If it occurs within the ornamentation symbol, it is less clear and depends on context.


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
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