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#2109142 - 06/27/13 03:15 PM ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes...  
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Here's my dilemma, I know the ES7's action is so much better, but the Kawai weighs substantially more than the Roland; so simply comparing their internal sounds, which would you choose?

I need to be able to easily transport a piano with built-in speakers to small venues, where, with just the addition of a stand and a stool I can perform solo gigs. (I'm already well covered for larger band gigs). I have a bad back, and will likely not have assistance to setup and tear down the equipment. In the past, I have owned the Roland FP-4, FP-7F and RD-64, and also the Kawai MP5 and MP6. I preferred the playability of the FP-7F to the MP6, despite the clearer tone of the Kawai.

I like the harmonic integration and decay qualities of Roland's SN pianos, but I do find them just a little muddy at times.

I did not like the way the FP-7F's internal speakers would distort if a left-hand bass patch was split with piano.

If you have played the FP-50 (or FP-4F), and/or the ES7, please tell me what you like and dislike about them. How well do the speakers respond to acoustic bass split with piano? Are the speakers loud enough for small gigs? Do you find the ES7 too heavy/awkward to move around?

Thanks!


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
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#2109151 - 06/27/13 03:51 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I think I'd go back to your old FP-4! Lightest of the bunch, perfectly workable for your needs, and I think the playability was better than on the FP-4F, which makes me think that it's likely better than the FP-50 as well, but I haven't tried an FP-50 yet.

#2109172 - 06/27/13 04:30 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Wales
Thanks for that, Scott (I think!). You know, I've been scouring the country for another sensibly priced, good condition FP-4, but they've all gone to ground.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109205 - 06/27/13 05:34 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Well, if you have a back problem, you are not going to want to lug the ES7 around. It is pretty heavy. I think you would be happy with the sound system but that weight would wear you out, I am afraid.



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
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#2109209 - 06/27/13 05:40 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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voxpops, I'm afraid I may know the answer to this already, but is it possible you can play-test an ES7 beforehand?

As others have said, if you have had positive experiences with the FP-4, that should probably be at the top of your shopping list (if you can find one). I'm a little curious as to why you parted with the Roland in he first place.

Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2109210 - 06/27/13 05:42 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109214 - 06/27/13 05:46 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
voxpops, I'm afraid I may know the answer to this already, but is it possible you can play-test an ES7 beforehand?

Unfortunately, not a snowball's chance in heck! [Edit: interesting that the software substitutes the word that's printed here for the "down-below" word!]

Quote
As others have said, if you have had positive experiences with the FP-4, that should probably be at the top of your shopping list (if you can find one). I'm a little curious as to why you parted with the Roland in he first place.

It was to pay for the RD-64 (which I didn't keep). Again, there was no chance of trying one here first. Nice LITTLE board, though.

Quote
Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...

Hmmmm... What a tease you are, James. wink

Last edited by voxpops; 06/27/13 05:50 PM.

"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109219 - 06/27/13 06:06 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Kawai, Red, Father Christmas, North Pole, Goodies... No, back up a moment! North... What's the Swedish word for North again?


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109225 - 06/27/13 06:19 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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If I was lugging around my own equipment and gigging with any frequency at all, I'd get the lightest thing available (regardless of whether I had a bad back). What would that be...like a Casio PX-150 maybe? Or Yamaha P105.

We spend a lot of time scrutinizing the various actions and tone generators but the truth is that all these actions are workable and pretty much any modern digital piano will sound good enough for a room full of noisy people. The venue and speakers are likely to be the limiting factor.

#2109231 - 06/27/13 06:32 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: gvfarns]  
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Originally Posted by gvfarns
If I was lugging around my own equipment and gigging with any frequency at all, I'd get the lightest thing available (regardless of whether I had a bad back). What would that be...like a Casio PX-150 maybe? Or Yamaha P105.

We spend a lot of time scrutinizing the various actions and tone generators but the truth is that all these actions are workable and pretty much any modern digital piano will sound good enough for a room full of noisy people. The venue and speakers are likely to be the limiting factor.


Yes, I spent a month with the P-105, and quite liked it. It had two limiting factors for me: 1) the speakers were only 7 watts, a little mid/bass heavy, and distorted when acoustic bass was coupled with piano at reasonable volumes; 2) activating/deactivating splits was clunky. Other than those issues, it's a great little board for straight piano playing, without frills.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109298 - 06/27/13 08:51 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I have played the ES7 and the FP 80. Good action , good AP sounds and good speakers( similar DP). My decision was to buy the FP 80 because it has better EP sounds, more sounds and better rhytms section, but the ES 7 ís a good choice too. I would like to wait the MP 6 replacement but there aren´t any notice about.

#2109299 - 06/27/13 08:55 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Thanks, cabi. Unfortunately, the FP-80 is just simply too bulky and heavy, but at least the sounds should be the same in the 50, although the speakers are not as good.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109300 - 06/27/13 08:56 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I've yet to really try the FP-80 properly - have the EP sounds been improved over the FP-7F?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2109301 - 06/27/13 08:57 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]  
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Yes, thank goodness! There are one or two videos online which highlight the EPs, particularly one made during Musikmesse.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109305 - 06/27/13 09:12 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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We keep a Roland FP-4 in our rental pool. It's great except customers keep trying to screw up the music desk when they pack it.


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#2109307 - 06/27/13 09:14 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Yes, the EPs are better than FP 7-F. The AP sound too, maybe because the FP 80 has better speakers.

#2109308 - 06/27/13 09:15 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
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I'd applaud the first manufacturer that provides a slot in the base of their slab pianos in which to stow the music rest.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109312 - 06/27/13 09:22 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Nice idea, however I'm pretty sure that would affect the instrument's structural rigidity. Certainly for Kawai stage pianos, the action sits on the bottom board, so I doubt there's sufficient space remaining in which to fit a slide in music rest - even temporarily.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2109317 - 06/27/13 10:07 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Nice idea, however I'm pretty sure that would affect the instrument's structural rigidity. Certainly for Kawai stage pianos, the action sits on the bottom board, so I doubt there's sufficient space remaining in which to fit a slide in music rest - even temporarily.

Yes, it would require some ingenious rethinking of the case and possibly the music rest itself. But if Casio can repurpose their speaker slots to be a battery compartment and a set of faders, then who knows what could be slid into the rear or the top of keyboards with a bit of creative thinking, and perhaps a folding scissor or latticework design for the rest? Also, some existing music rests are little more than bent wire - it can't be rocket science to design a clip-on holder underneath the board for such devices, as it's rare for keyboard gigbags etc. to have pockets wide enough for such accessories.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109319 - 06/27/13 10:13 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Originally Posted by voxpops
Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?


Yes, I absolutely am. It has a great Concert Grand sound, which is all I ever use.



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2109322 - 06/27/13 10:14 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I believe the Casio PX-5S chassis is based largely on the PX-350 - removing speakers to create space for a knobs/sliders and a battery compartment is a little different to re-engineering the base for a music.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2109327 - 06/27/13 10:28 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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James, you surprise me. No love for innovation? wink


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109337 - 06/27/13 10:43 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: dmd]  
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by voxpops
Thanks, Don. Yes, I think the ES7 would have to be so astoundingly better that it was worth risking even more damage - which is unlikely. Also, I dislike turning up to a summer's gig bathed in sweat!

Are you enjoying yours?


Yes, I absolutely am. It has a great Concert Grand sound, which is all I ever use.


Good to hear, Don. It would be a nice board to have in a fixed location, or for very occasional trips.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2109338 - 06/27/13 10:43 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Not at all, I believe the PX-5S is a very innovative board. wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2109442 - 06/28/13 02:57 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I am over 70, dodgy back, have carted - and will do so in the near future - my ES7 around. Yes, it's heavy and yes, I don't do it often, but it's possible. I chose it against the FP-7F. Rejected the FP-4F: the ES7 is in a different class: great sounds and action.

#2109448 - 06/28/13 03:13 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Alternatively, you could always wait a little while and see if Father Christmas, dressed in a nice 'Kawai-red' outfit, brings you some nice goodies...


Huh? Kawai-red? And even caring for voxpop's back?

#2109452 - 06/28/13 03:33 AM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: maurus]  
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Originally Posted by maurus
Kawai-red?


Kawai's corporate colour utilises a special type of red ink, affectionately known within the company as 'Kawai-red':

[Linked Image]

(yes, I realise that posting an RGB image as an example defeats the purpose of my previous statement.)

James
x





Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2110258 - 06/29/13 04:26 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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Out of interest has anybody or will anybody submit to the DPBSD thread? for the ES7?

#2110318 - 06/29/13 07:38 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I wonder if you can go past your speaker expectation, and carry some speaker separately, which can be more ear and back friendly. Then you (maybe?) have wider search scope; nothing comes to my mind though.

BTW, I have FP-4, but even in soft case with power cord, jack cable, pedal and music rest whole pack weight is 21kg...

Or some lightweight Casio + laptop + external speaker? Multiple lightweight packages is a way to go. Starting from smallest and cheapest speaker http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_b_205d.htm to any pro speakers. BTW this speaker is NOT as bad as you may think haha smile


Roland FP-4
#2110319 - 06/29/13 07:39 PM Re: ES7 or FP-50 - If you were in my shoes... [Re: voxpops]  
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I believe some folks already have...it's just that dewster is taking a break from examining waveforms for a while.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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