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Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia #2108388
06/26/13 01:07 PM
06/26/13 01:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 21
Vancouver
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Koyuki Offline OP
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Koyuki  Offline OP
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Vancouver
I have an upright piano and wanted to get a grand piano that is at least 5'7".

I really like Steinway, but the price is a problem.

I've heard that Estonia is the same class as Steinway but much better in price.

Anyone know the price range?

What are the similarities and differences between the 2 brand?

Where can I find dealers for Steinway and Estonia?

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Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108411
06/26/13 01:47 PM
06/26/13 01:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,269
Richmond, Virginia
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Almaviva Offline
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Richmond, Virginia
Heritage Pianos in Surrey (near Vancouver) carries Estonias. Norbert Marten, the owner (or co-owner), is a regular poster here. He also carries used or rebuilt Steinways, so you can play competing Estonia & Steinway models side-by-side.

New Estonias cost quite a bit less than similarly-sized new Steinways, but a lot of people say that the Estonia models are as good as Steinway.

Good luck.

Last edited by Almaviva; 06/26/13 01:51 PM.
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108413
06/26/13 01:50 PM
06/26/13 01:50 PM
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Hi Koyuki:

I have recently auditioned all top tier grand pianos under 6'3", and in fact Steinway and Estonia are my final two shortlisted. (C. Bechstein is nice but price out of range.)

From budget perspective, Estonia is about 1/2 of the price of Steinway, making Estonia extremely competitive.

From sound perspective, both Steinway (New York) and Estonia are among the top pianos. In my opinion, Steinway sounds better, although the difference is not big. However, the difference could also be very small between a silver and gold Olympic medalist. In other words, differences can be small but substantial, and there is no way to quantify such difference to justify the price based on that.

Again my personal experience, the Steinway sounds substantially better than Estonia. Although expensive, Steinway offers 1-year or 2-year interest-free financing plan.

Disclaimer: I am not involved in the piano industry.

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108414
06/26/13 01:51 PM
06/26/13 01:51 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Minnesota Marty  Offline

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Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
Koyuki - Welcome to Piano World!

Norbert's a good guy. If you want an earful, ask about Ritmuller!

Estonia is a very fine piano. It is one of the best bargains among the truly fine instruments.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108448
06/26/13 02:22 PM
06/26/13 02:22 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,789
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
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Since you indicate price is a problem, you need to compare Steinways and Estonias at whatever price you can afford. I think the largest non concert grand Estonia (at around 7'4") is still less expensive than the smallest Steinway at 5'1".

Many would say that the Steinway S has some tonal problems in the bass inherent in pianos that size, so unless, despite the higher cost and tonal weakness in the bass the Steinway sound is still more appealing overall to you, I would choose the Estonia. Almost any piano purchase under 100K involves some compromise, and only you can decide whether a shorter Steinway is preferable to a much bigger Estonia.

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: pianoloverus] #2108473
06/26/13 02:58 PM
06/26/13 02:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 21
Vancouver
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Koyuki Offline OP
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Vancouver
I went to Tom Lee, and my ideal Steinway would be the Model A (6'2") or the B (6'11"). But the B is a little too big... they do have a financing program, but I have to pay 70% first, the remaining 30% gets split into 12 monthly installments. The price they quoted for the Model A is $74,000 CAD (tax included).

I would love to try the Estonia. Do they only have 4 models?
I guess the one that matches Steinway Model A would be the Parlour Grand 190?



Last edited by Koyuki; 06/26/13 03:04 PM.
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108498
06/26/13 03:38 PM
06/26/13 03:38 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Koyuki,

For questions about the pianos from all manufactures, may I suggest that you check out the "A&D Piano Buyer" by Larry fine. The online edition is free of charge and is available at:

www.pianobuyer.com

It will answer all of your questions including relative pricing. The prices in Canada may differ slightly from those listed for the US market.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108624
06/26/13 06:44 PM
06/26/13 06:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,691
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by Koyuki
I would love to try the Estonia. Do they only have 4 models?
I guess the one that matches Steinway Model A would be the Parlour Grand 190?
They have 5 models, though the 2 newest models (L210 & L225) are quite rare.

For Estonia, like many makers, the model refers to the length in cm. So, a model A-188 is close to model L190 and model B-211 is close to L210.

I think you will have fun comparing these two fine makes.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108645
06/26/13 07:24 PM
06/26/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,811
San Jose, CA
Jeff Clef Offline
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San Jose, CA
What could it hurt to give the Shigeru Kawai a try (if you haven't already considered it). "The poor man's Steinway," some call it. It's just something they say--- I don't think any actually poor people buy them. Then there are the two Charles Walter grands, which are fine instruments and are certainly worth the effort it might take to find them, and compare.

Your mind will be more at ease with your final decision, if you get out and try a wider range of instruments.


Clef

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108658
06/26/13 07:42 PM
06/26/13 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,867
Philadelphia, PA
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jdw Offline
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Philadelphia, PA
If introducing other competitors, you might consider Petrof. I don't think they're quite as trendy these days as Estonia, but worth comparing.


1989 Baldwin R
Currently working on:​
Schubert, Op. 90 no. 2
Sinding, Frühlingsrauschen (Rustle of Spring)
Beethoven, Sonata no. 14 in C# minor (Moonlight)
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: jdw] #2108662
06/26/13 07:45 PM
06/26/13 07:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 21
Vancouver
K
Koyuki Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2013
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Vancouver
Originally Posted by jdw
If introducing other competitors, you might consider Petrof. I don't think they're quite as trendy these days as Estonia, but worth comparing.


Actually the lady at Tom Lee told me that Petrof has been bought by some other company, from now on, they will be Made in China. They stopped carrying the brand.

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108672
06/26/13 07:56 PM
06/26/13 07:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,433
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Tom Lee owned "Euro Music" in Totonto for many years was known to be the Canadian importer of Petrof but appears having recently opted to go with German Schimmel instead.

Apparently this was a simple business decision based on greatly increased pricing for Petrof products.

Petrof continues to operate out of their Czech factory but due to greatly diminished market for their products has expanded major into furniture making.

Sorry, article in German

http://www.shortnews.de/id/754514/t...ller-petrof-stellt-jetzt-auch-moebel-her

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 06/27/13 03:14 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108676
06/26/13 07:59 PM
06/26/13 07:59 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
The lady at the store seems to have some secret information about Petrof that no one else knows. Petrof is a good piano.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108679
06/26/13 08:02 PM
06/26/13 08:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,626
Philadelphia area
D
Dave B Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,626
Philadelphia area
I service a few Estonia's. All I can say is there hasn't been any service problems and the owners love them.

Another brand you might enjoy is Schimmel.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108746
06/26/13 09:42 PM
06/26/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 125
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hotcat Offline
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Hi Koyuki--
For what it's worth, I recently purchased an Estonia L190 and I'm very pleased with it. I was glad I saved the money over purchasing a Steinway, and I'm usually one who prefers to have the "best." I haven't been pining away for a Steinway, in other words, so that says something. I have been playing for hours each day and I never get tired of it. It is really true that new pianos change their sound as they settle in. It has continued to improve, or maybe I'm just getting better at playing it, but it really has a gorgeous tone. I play mostly classical so it suits my repertoire very well. Here is a video you might find interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OZ9oo2AOPs

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2108837
06/27/13 01:33 AM
06/27/13 01:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,638
Hobart, Australia
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ando Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by Koyuki
Originally Posted by jdw
If introducing other competitors, you might consider Petrof. I don't think they're quite as trendy these days as Estonia, but worth comparing.


Actually the lady at Tom Lee told me that Petrof has been bought by some other company, from now on, they will be Made in China. They stopped carrying the brand.


Don't believe everything you hear - especially from salespeople!

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: ando] #2108942
06/27/13 07:55 AM
06/27/13 07:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,960
Northern VA, U.S.
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013
ClsscLib  Offline

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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,960
Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Koyuki
Originally Posted by jdw
If introducing other competitors, you might consider Petrof. I don't think they're quite as trendy these days as Estonia, but worth comparing.


Actually the lady at Tom Lee told me that Petrof has been bought by some other company, from now on, they will be Made in China. They stopped carrying the brand.


Don't believe everything you hear - especially from salespeople!


Mr. Dooley said, "Trust everyone, but cut the cards."


[Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2109106
06/27/13 02:03 PM
06/27/13 02:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
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GGO Offline
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Joined: Jun 2013
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Originally Posted by Koyuki
I went to Tom Lee, and my ideal Steinway would be the Model A (6'2") or the B (6'11"). But the B is a little too big... they do have a financing program, but I have to pay 70% first, the remaining 30% gets split into 12 monthly installments. The price they quoted for the Model A is $74,000 CAD (tax included).

I would love to try the Estonia. Do they only have 4 models?
I guess the one that matches Steinway Model A would be the Parlour Grand 190?

With $74k CAD tax-included, what's the paint?

Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: Koyuki] #2109113
06/27/13 02:28 PM
06/27/13 02:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 137
Sevenoaks, UK
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williambonard Offline
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Sevenoaks, UK
If you're already able to be looking at buying a Steinway then I highly recommend you look at Steingraeber & Söhne. Totally hand-built in Beyreuth in Germany, the tone is to die for and they play so nicely. From a price point I know they are cheaper than Steinways however I'm not sure if they're cheaper or more expensive than Estonia.

Steingraeber produce a model B-192 which is similar in size to the Estonia L190 and Steinway Model A.

They honestly are such beautiful instruments. The first time I played a Steingraeber I fell in love with it.

All the best,

William


Venables & Son Academy-168 grand piano
Aspiring concert pianist
Re: Grand Piano - Steinway vs. Estonia [Re: williambonard] #2109120
06/27/13 02:43 PM
06/27/13 02:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,905
SoCal
Plowboy Offline

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SoCal
Originally Posted by williambonard
From a price point I know they are cheaper than Steinways however I'm not sure if they're cheaper or more expensive than Estonia.


According to Piano Buyer, the B-192 is $117,000. The Steinway Model A is $79,000 and the Estonia L190 is $44,000.

Last edited by Plowboy; 06/27/13 02:45 PM.

Gary
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