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Joined: Jan 2006
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Well, if that is the case, then they are REALLY being hypocritical, based on this quote: Older pianos usually suffer collapse of the dome (crown) of the sound board and/ or fracture of the joints in the sound board and micro cracking of the bridge cap. To re-string a piano without attending to these matters is total waste of money. It is not uncommon to find plastic wood filler covered with a liberal layer of varnish in a cracked soundboard to disguise the fact this work has not been done.
Piano Technician/Tuner
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Personally, I prefer the sound of the wood soundboard. However, there are many here who disagree with me on that, so it really is a matter of taste.
In a recent comparison involving some 12 odd grands at Steingraeber factory, I wasn't able to spot which is which. I have to say I find that quite surprising based on my experience being completely opposite and finding the 2 types of boards to sound radically different. If I could think of a stronger adverb I would use it. On second thought, since the carbon fiber boards also had the pheonix bridges, I can't say that I have really compared apples to apples with carbon boards to wood boards and everything else the same. I've played some of the Steingraeber-Phoenix models before carbon fiber was used. It is my opinion that the difference between the two is subtle. For someone who isn't familiar with the Steingraeber sound, and hasn't played the different generations of Phoenix instruments, I think it is likely they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. However, I am confident that I could identify the ones with carbon fiber boards in a blind test. I also compared the older models with wood soundboards, one with the traditional bridge and one with the pheonix bridge, and I didn't find the differences in those pianos subtle in the least. I would be most curious to hear an A/B of 2 Steingraebers with traditional bridges, but one with a spruce board and the other with a carbon fibre board.
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Personally, I prefer the sound of the wood soundboard. However, there are many here who disagree with me on that, so it really is a matter of taste.
In a recent comparison involving some 12 odd grands at Steingraeber factory, I wasn't able to spot which is which. I have to say I find that quite surprising based on my experience being completely opposite and finding the 2 types of boards to sound radically different. If I could think of a stronger adverb I would use it. On second thought, since the carbon fiber boards also had the pheonix bridges, I can't say that I have really compared apples to apples with carbon boards to wood boards and everything else the same. I've played some of the Steingraeber-Phoenix models before carbon fiber was used. It is my opinion that the difference between the two is subtle. For someone who isn't familiar with the Steingraeber sound, and hasn't played the different generations of Phoenix instruments, I think it is likely they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. However, I am confident that I could identify the ones with carbon fiber boards in a blind test. I also compared the older models with wood soundboards, one with the traditional bridge and one with the pheonix bridge, and I didn't find the differences in those pianos subtle in the least. I would be most curious to hear an A/B of 2 Steingraebers with traditional bridges, but one with a spruce board and the other with a carbon fibre board. Oh, I meant comparing a spruce soundboard Phoenix with a carbon fiber soundboard Phoenix. The difference between a spruce soundboard with traditional bridge and a spruce soundboard with Phoenix is definitely not subtle, as you say!
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,656
4000 Post Club Member
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4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,656 |
Personally, I prefer the sound of the wood soundboard. However, there are many here who disagree with me on that, so it really is a matter of taste.
In a recent comparison involving some 12 odd grands at Steingraeber factory, I wasn't able to spot which is which. I have to say I find that quite surprising based on my experience being completely opposite and finding the 2 types of boards to sound radically different. If I could think of a stronger adverb I would use it. On second thought, since the carbon fiber boards also had the pheonix bridges, I can't say that I have really compared apples to apples with carbon boards to wood boards and everything else the same. I've played some of the Steingraeber-Phoenix models before carbon fiber was used. It is my opinion that the difference between the two is subtle. For someone who isn't familiar with the Steingraeber sound, and hasn't played the different generations of Phoenix instruments, I think it is likely they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. However, I am confident that I could identify the ones with carbon fiber boards in a blind test. I also compared the older models with wood soundboards, one with the traditional bridge and one with the pheonix bridge, and I didn't find the differences in those pianos subtle in the least. I would be most curious to hear an A/B of 2 Steingraebers with traditional bridges, but one with a spruce board and the other with a carbon fibre board. Oh, I meant comparing a spruce soundboard Phoenix with a carbon fiber soundboard Phoenix. The difference between a spruce soundboard with traditional bridge and a spruce soundboard with Phoenix is definitely not subtle, as you say! Whew........I was wondering how you could say that.
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Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
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deleted
Last edited by Norbert; 06/25/13 06:45 PM.
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C212. Teaching. Accompaniment.
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Whew........I was wondering how you could say that.
Haha no worries. After all, one of the main points of the Phoenix system is to sound different. As I've said before, I'm a proponent of Phoenix, but I also realize it may not be for everyone, and that's ok, too. I am looking forward to Brian Gatchell's presentation on Phoenix installation at the convention.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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I emailed Hurstwood Farm Pianos on Monday like I said I would. I'm still waiting for a reply at the moment though. I'm tempted to just give them a call!
I'll let you know when I hear back from them about the prices for a 'traditional' Steingraeber and whether they're more/less expensive than the prices I was given for the Steingraeber-Phoenix models I played.
In the meantime, it's back to my Kawai!
Current: Yamaha AvantGrand NU1X
Previous: Venables & Son Academy-168, Kawai K-15 E and Yamaha Clavinova CVP-208
"Insurance broker by day, classically trained pianist by... well, when I'm not working!"
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Joined: Feb 2013
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Hurstwood Phoenix
170 £34602.00
212 £38952.00
232 £44289.00
I am not an expert in Steingraebers, far from it, but I read that the Hurstwood Phoenix is a Steingraeber look-alike, but not a real Steingraeber. So my understanding is that there is Phoenix (Steingraeber inspired creation of Hurstwood), Steingraeber Phoenix (a Steingraeber with carbon fibre sound board), and Steingraeber --u Sohne. Is this a correct reflection of what happens in Kent?
Last edited by Frankni; 06/26/13 10:37 PM.
Yamaha C3, Sauter Delta 185, Sauter Omega 220
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It is a lot of fun to put a couple of great pianos in your shopping basket on that website. And then off to the checkout. Hoping your credit card has a generous limit.
Yamaha C3, Sauter Delta 185, Sauter Omega 220
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Yes, I think you're correct.
That sounds about right from what I remember. The model I played (the A-170) was a Steingraeber-Phoenix.
I'm still waiting to hear from them about the traditional Steingraeber & Söhnes.
Current: Yamaha AvantGrand NU1X
Previous: Venables & Son Academy-168, Kawai K-15 E and Yamaha Clavinova CVP-208
"Insurance broker by day, classically trained pianist by... well, when I'm not working!"
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From reading through threads about S&S I see some prefer carbon fibre, some prefer spruce, some dealers however they do it, come in with much lower floor prices, everyone knows, whether from reputation or personal experience, that an S&S is a fabulous piano but some still prefer Steinway.
For those of you have gone down the S&S road and brought one home, could you speak to what, if anything, you might have done differently during the purchases process. In other words, I'm leaning to S&S myself. Am hoping to pick up on what's been learned from experience and reflection from those who have taken delivery of the piano (meaning what if anything do you think you might have done differently while in the purchase process).
It's possible for me to visit Beyreuth ...
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Hi all, I know it's a bit late and this thread is a bit old now and I've been meaning to put them on here, but I have the prices for some of the Steingraebers!
Initially, I played a Steingraeber-Phoenix A-170 that was £34,602. This price has now gone up to £35,640 - not too large an increase (note: Mr Dain at Hurstwood Farm said all the Steingraeber prices had literally just gone up).
The price he gave me for a traditional model A-170 Steingraeber & Söhne was £41,381. Not bad, if I say so myself. However, I wasn't sure whether I was expecting that to be a little higher or lower. Nonetheless, that's still only around £6,000 more than the Steingraeber-Phoenix model. Mr Dain also said there is a studio version of the A-170 for £35,640.
I also have prices for the B-192. The Steingraeber-Phoenix version was originally £37,499 but went up to £38,624 with the price increase. The traditional Steingraeber & Söhne model was £48,368 (just over £10,000 more than the Phoenix counterpart, a big difference - don't think I expected that one). The studio version of the B-192 is £41,658. Again, a large difference between the traditional and studio model and almost as cheap (I use the word loosely!) as the traditional A-170.
Now, using the current exchange rates, I don't know how these prices rack up to the American price tags you have on the Steingraebers over there. Who knows, it may be cheaper to buy one here in England and have it shipped over!?
Current: Yamaha AvantGrand NU1X
Previous: Venables & Son Academy-168, Kawai K-15 E and Yamaha Clavinova CVP-208
"Insurance broker by day, classically trained pianist by... well, when I'm not working!"
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