Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Steinway: world's finest?

No, it's true, Steinway has never been in the same class as Ritmuller.

"Those who are the most competent to judge, concede that the Steinway Piano is the best in the world; presenting to it's admirers a completeness, an artistic finality sought for in vain in other pianos."

Excerpted from a Steinway Ad that Marty posted last week.
Steinway is perhaps the finest piano company in the world in regards to smugness.

Ahem - The ad was from 1905. Hardly unlike any ads from the period for any product. Kitchen gadgets received the same glowing treatment.

Please remember, Norbert didn't set this up as a Steinway Bashing Thread, but the temptation seems to be insurmountable. For what end?

I do believe it is time to start bashing the bashers.

Like the fact that judging by up to now, this is not exactly turning out the most boring thread to date.

But not sure yet if it's going to turn out "best ever"....

Norbert

Marty, you posted this ad, in which this statement was at the very beginning of your Steinway thread.

I don't notice a lot of Steinway bashing on PW. I have noticed several piano companies 'put through the wringer' on various occasions here on PW.
For myself, this is the first reference I've ever made to Steinway in my postings on PW.

Your bashing the bashers idea sounds brilliant.

After playing many wonderful Bosies, Bechsteins, Mason-Hamlins, and Bluethners, I can tell people that Steinway is one of many fine top tier pianos. But, it is certainly "not the only game in town". After all, I have one. :-)

In business, if you have a great product and no marketing, you have NOTHING!
You can make the best piano in the world in your garage but if you can't market it, you have nothing.

I don't see it so impossible that Steinway besides building what I feel is the most beautiful sounding piano, also happens to be a pure business and marketing genius!

This is very frustrating to the other manufacturers but not to all...

Steinway is only geared towards the customers who want and can afford the "best" (and want the name). This is a relatively a small portion of the entire piano market pool and perhaps less profitable due to the fact that the volume is not there.

Perhaps Yamaha and Kawai is happy being what they are. They sell ALOT more pianos per year and in the end, due to shier volume, they make way more money.

The problem is the manufacturers who are also trying to build the "best" piano. What they are learning is that simply building a great piano which may or may not be as good as a Steinway just isn't good enough. It's actually not even close.

For a competing company such as Bosendorfer to compete for Steinway's potential customers, they must penetrate the market which is an extremely hard task! It's like trying to compete with Facebook by making a new facebook but slightly better - NEVER GOING TO WORK!

Bosendorfer would have to pierce through the establishment of Steinway by not only making a great piano, but a piano that will just blow the doors off the Steinway. Side by side, the Steinway must feel, play, and sound like garbage compared. In addition, they will also have to spend loads of money on marketing to open the minds of the so-called brainwashed individuals such as myself to even try a Bosendorfer on the showroom floor and provide extremely price aggressive incentives. In other words, Bosendorfer (as an example) would have to make a piano at least 50% better and be 50% less expensive than a steinway to penetrate that market. A market which in fact is not all that profitable to begin with.
The truth is that most people are not making over 150k / year and can afford a Steinway. What's the average nowdays? 75k/yr? Majority of the public can and will only spend 10-20k on a piano, and Yamaha is happy to greet them with a fine instrument...

So why would Bosendorfer fight so hard in this endless uphill battle against the stigma, and in my opinion - the truth of a Steinway being an incredible instrument. In my opinion, they are trying to make a better piano, and in my opinion, they don't. It simply doesn't sound as good. Perhaps there are various patents which are prohibiting them from creating such sound via the technology, but why fight so hard, with very little chance of success, where they can make way more money, and have much better success if they just gear towards the general public and compete with Yamaha. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a person looking at a Yamaha is much more open minded about another brand than a person shopping for a Steinway...

To answer my question - pride. Although I've played Bosendorfer, Bechstein and haven't been blown away and the steinway always sat a bit higher in regards to my personal taste and the sound it produced, I have alot of respect for those companies. If they wanted to make alot of money and keep the investors happy, they can build a "Yamaha", but they want to build a great instrument.

In a way, this in my opinion keeps Steinway in check. Without competition, Steinway could easily start cutting corners on the manufacturing and increase profit, but they know those companies are lurking just waiting for Steinway to screw up.


It's human nature to speak harshly of No.1 In car racing - No.1 is always the cheater who has the cheater engine. Microsoft is an evil empire. But could it be that Steinway which is commonly considered as No1 by pianists and people who even don't play the piano can recognize the Steinway brand. Could it be that it's No.1 because it's simply great? Could the No.1 fastest driver in the race truly be the most talented???

I'm happy that this thread didn't turn into a Steinway bashing.
In the end, survival of the fittest will do the trick. Fittest piano, with the fittest marketing. An unfit piano with very good marketing would have NEVER lasted 150 years.

(what I present above are my opinions)

Oh Dara, I've bashed Steinway plenty. So have lots of people here.

Just not this last week, maybe.

From a German/European perspective I found this is not being necessarily true.

While there has always been a natural rivalry among the manufacturers, their markets and areas of influence - especially "locally speaking" - are long established.

Companies have learned over the years to respect each other.

Steinway may sell the most concert grands to world's stages, but Grotrian, Steingraeber, Sauter,Bluethner, Bosendorfer etc also sell all they [can] make.

In fact they seem more concerend to not imitate each other, trying to be more unique [if possible..] emphasizing on their own historical roots and identity instead.

Nobody there looks down on another one because these guys know full well there's "nothing to look down to"

Secretly they may mull "mine being finer than yours" but it's certainly not spoken out loud. Nor believed among themselves..

During piano shows you will often find these guys sitting together having a coffee or beer. Or at least shake hands and chat in the hallways.

Claims of supremacy are far less expressed over there because they know nobody would [easily] believe it.

These guys have been around a long time and know "who is who"
Their fathers, grandfathers knew each other and they've been at this game for a long time. Many of those who were trained by one end up working later for another....

In fact, traditionally speaking, there have always been established fan clubs for the Bluethner, Bechstein, Bosendorfer etc crowd.

"Live and let live", if you like.

"Vive la difference", is another...

Norbert

Interesting post. It makes me think maybe it's just the american public that is a die hard Steinway consumer. Maybe because it's so rare that this country is making a truly great product. If not for Steinway, all we are left with is Chevy and Ford hahahaha

God Bless America, we have our own BMW right here in town!!!!

Can anyone on this forum perhaps confirm Norbert's post that lives in Europe? Is the Steinway the end all be all over there? Also, on a personal note, how much demand do you guys have for a NY made Steinway having the NY sound? Do you guys "dig" this?

(this is like talking to aliens, wow!!! There is a different world apart from the USA? No WAY!!!!!)

Steinway cannot sell all the pianos that they can make. Sometimes they have a backlog, and they reduce production. I suspect that is true of all of those other manufacturers as well. There is often more manufacturing capacity for high-end pianos than there are buyers.

Steinway is undoubted the most popular piano brand amoung concert pianists in the UK and Europe, but many more pianists here will (prefer to) play other brands, if they have access to them. It's just that most concert venues have Steinways, and the access to servicing etc that Steinway provides.

When a festival venue acquired a Bösendorfer Imperial a few years ago, they had several calls from concert pianists asking to be included in their program. Long-established Steinway Artists have also taken the opportunity to play other brands in concert, including Yamaha, when they had the chance. Steinway doesn't have the same stronghold on their Artists the way it has in USA. And there are pianists who prefer Fazioli.....and so on.

On both sides of the Atlantic, much depends on the ranking and visibility of the venue. Nobody is going to stop an artist from getting work where they can.

Steinway is ramping up production in Hamburg. They say their bottom line was negatively impacted last year since the Hamburg plant was not able to meet the demand.

I got some "spam" from Steinway today announcing a big, blowout sale of pianos used during the Cliburn

http://www.steinwaypianos.com/piano-sale

So obviously they're not flying off the shelves.

In your opinion, is there a relationship between increased production and reduction in quality control? In other words, now that they have to rush making more pianos, will the quality suffer?

Any figures?

For some of the makes, you can check the serial numbers in the Piano Atlas for an approximation. The named manufacturers' production varies quite a bit from year to year.

So obviously, if you received the "spam," you joined the mailing list from the DFW Steinway Halls.

I had the opportunity to talk with one of the Steinway brass at the Cliburn finals. They are "marketing" the Cliburn pianos (including those used at the host homes) as "limited edition", I believe. Not sure what is special about them, other than the potential historical significance. They might have a special marking.