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How well built is Ritmuller piano? #2106073
06/22/13 02:05 AM
06/22/13 02:05 AM
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zhengy4 Offline OP
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I tried a Ritmuller GH160R and the touching and sound really impressed me, but the question is how long does these Chinese piano last generally? Will they become out of tune/broken in say 10 & 20 years more likely than other pianos?

btw, how much did you pay for gh160r? gh170r?

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106084
06/22/13 04:17 AM
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You know, a few years ago, people moaned about Chinese piano quality. A lot of folks thought they would never build a decent piano.

Supposedly, at one tech meeting in Atlanta, they even laughed at themselves gathered up around a Chinese piano, tapping the plate with their tuning hammers and calling out, Ching! Ching!...saying that was the sound of a Chinese piano.

My, have things changed.

Chinese pianos dominate the entry level market and as Yamaha keeps increasing prices, I'm thinking it may not be long before the Chinese conquer a lot of that middle segment as well.

So...how long will a well cared for, decent Chinese piano last?

IMO, if it receives the use of the average American home and you don't play like Jerry Lee Lewis (who has been known to trash a Kawai in one sitting), I'm thinking several decades. Heavy use? That's a better question for the techs among us, but I'm guessing 10 years before major work takes place.


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Jolly] #2106086
06/22/13 04:50 AM
06/22/13 04:50 AM
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zhengy4 Offline OP
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thanks for replying! I am currently torn at whether taking a Kawai ge30 or a Ritmuller 160... Which one lasts longer? the GE30 has carbon fibre actions.

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106167
06/22/13 10:56 AM
06/22/13 10:56 AM
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Norbert Offline
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Zheng:

I can't tell you which piano "lasts longer" but I can tell you that neither piano will require "major work" in ten years.

While both pianos are rated in same tier of Consumer-Grade Pianos they are entirely differently designed and intended for different owners.

http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring13/45.html

If just owning a good, reliable piano doing it's everyday job, the Kawai will be just fine. It's certainly a well built piano.

On the other hand, when Lothar Thomma, Germany's top designer was commissioned by Pearl River to design an entire new line of pianos, they intended a piano with significant quality upgrades.

One which offers a musical experience found in pianos of usually much higher price. The Chinese thought they could do this making the piano in China, having it designed by a top gun and using top German quality components.

Not just B.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5is6iVQG060

By last account, this effort has been hugely successful and the market has received Ritmullers extremely well, a piano now sought out by professional pianists and advanced musicians alike.

It's up to you in which piano and manufacturer you will have more confidence.

What matters most is which piano appeals to you as a musical instrument and companion for long time. It has been designed form the beginning and built for exactly this purpose.

"How long either piano will last" is not exactlty a concern or part of the equation at this time any longer.

In fact, most Germans I know, still believe today that Japanese pianos expected to last about 30-40 years are nowhere near their own home grown makes always thought to last "generations".

Good luck in your choice,

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 09/14/13 11:22 PM.

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106181
06/22/13 11:23 AM
06/22/13 11:23 AM
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Zheng:

I have no idea how the longevity will compare if both pianos are treated the same way. My guess is that they will both last a long time given the proper maintenance. I would recommend focusing on getting the piano whose touch & sound you like more.

I have had a Rit 170 for a year now. There are a couple of other people on this forum who have owned this model for between 2-4 years now. They had been very responsive when I had PM-ed them to ask for their opinions. I suspect that they will be quite willing to share their experience with you.

One recommendation from me: compare the 160 and 170 carefully. To my ears, the 160 was brighter and more immediately attractive in the store. The 170 was noticeably deeper and warmer -- qualities that appealed to me more. I do not know if they are designed to be different, or the pianos that I heard were voiced to be different. But they seemed to have quite different characters to me.

Last edited by rlinkt; 06/22/13 11:24 AM.
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106198
06/22/13 11:54 AM
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I can't comment on this piano specifically. In my dealing with Chinese pianos, two issues often come up. One is loose tuning pins after 5-10 years, and the other is action parts wearing out or failing. As with anything, however, your mileage will vary depending on the manufacturer.

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106211
06/22/13 12:09 PM
06/22/13 12:09 PM
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Quote
I can't comment on this piano specifically. In my dealing with Chinese pianos, two issues often come up. One is loose tuning pins after 5-10 years, and the other is action parts wearing out or failing. As with anything, however, your mileage will vary depending on the manufacturer.


With all respect, this has nothing to do with Ritmuller.

Just because some American makes like Kincaid et al were falling apart at the seams, this would have nothing to do with other "American pianos" such as Steinway, Mason or CW.

It's about time we see the market for what it *is*.

Make by make, model by model...

Like a well-informed professional does.

Norbert thumb

Last edited by Norbert; 06/22/13 01:44 PM.

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106228
06/22/13 12:33 PM
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The same doubts and concerns that are sometimes expressed regarding Chinese pianos are exactly the same things that were said years ago about Japanese pianos. 'Predictions' that never came true.

Although there were some very early examples of both that a short time later were considered unacceptable and had major flaws.

But today, all are well constructed and some like the Ritmuller are very musical, utilizing high grade components and excellent designs.


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106278
06/22/13 01:57 PM
06/22/13 01:57 PM
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Nick:

I know what you're saying but not exactly thinking we as Rit dealers have to defend "Chinese Pianos"
It's a role one is constantly being pushed into but it's not where things are at.

Exactly because the image about "Chinese pianos" Pearl River, world's largest maker, went all out to contradict this.

IMHO they overshot their intention by a considerable margin - no need having to justify themselves at this point...

In building simply a "good" product PR could have taken a similar approach like most others: no need to hire a top huncho from Europe,invest millions of dollars and import some of the finest components,all of which could easily be made in China itself today.

No need to go to the extent of the current Ritmüller Premium, let alone the upcoming Kayserburg Artist series.

These pianos are so different from others anywhere in their price range that it really begs the questions what there actually is to compare.

Indeed it would be very interesting to find out how much a Kawai GE or similar piano would cost in the end if exact same design and components would be used.

The whole thing reminds me somehow on a story when a young Chinese kid once sat down practicing his piano being incessantly told "he'll never make it - because nobody ever did"

Actually a true story.

His name: Lang Lang

Norbert wink

Last edited by Norbert; 06/22/13 02:19 PM.

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106321
06/22/13 03:06 PM
06/22/13 03:06 PM
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Using a 10 year old Chinese piano as an example is hardly indicative of the current level of manufacturing which is imported into the US and Canada.

"They've come a long way, baby."


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2106326
06/22/13 03:15 PM
06/22/13 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Using a 10 year old Chinese piano as an example is hardly indicative of the current level of manufacturing which is imported into the US and Canada.

"They've come a long way, baby."


Although this is true. Go back 10 years and read what dealers were saying about their products back then.


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106330
06/22/13 03:20 PM
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I also tried the pearl river, forgot the model, ritmuller has real wooden black keys while pearl river is plastic, touching-wise, ritmuller is better.

I am in Toronto, and what's the lowest price can be negotiated for a brand new ritmuller gh160r/gh170r?


Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106340
06/22/13 03:41 PM
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Quote

I am in Toronto, and what's the lowest price can be negotiated for a brand new ritmuller gh160r/gh170r?


Free.

Anything above that needs negotiating with your friendly neighborhood Ritmüller dealer....

Norbert grin


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Norbert] #2106376
06/22/13 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Quote

I am in Toronto, and what's the lowest price can be negotiated for a brand new ritmuller gh160r/gh170r?


Free.

Anything above that needs negotiating with your friendly neighborhood Ritmüller dealer....

Norbert grin
Well, you see it is that first note where you don't seem to have much leverage, but if you pool your buying power, they will extend to you a great group buy. You typically have to purchase a container of 88 notes to get the best deal.


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106383
06/22/13 05:14 PM
06/22/13 05:14 PM
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
Well, you see it is that first note where you don't seem to have much leverage, but if you pool your buying power, they will extend to you a great group buy. You typically have to purchase a container of 88 notes to get the best deal.


Useless.

Trying to replenish our own stock of 170 grands for weeks now: sold out.

Perhaps try some of our friendly American neighbors to the South?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFz8ULTvJy8

P.S. thinking this group buying thing may work well with some slightly better attainable other brands...

Norbert f help

Last edited by Norbert; 06/22/13 05:20 PM.

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106386
06/22/13 05:19 PM
06/22/13 05:19 PM
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Norbert, if you are trying to replenish 14,960 notes, I suggest you play a Clementi Piano Sonatina.

wink grin


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106388
06/22/13 05:22 PM
06/22/13 05:22 PM
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"Zum Piepen"

[since you like foreign languages...especially Celtic-Germanic slang]

Norbert grin


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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106401
06/22/13 05:51 PM
06/22/13 05:51 PM
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OK Norbert - ya got me!

(To use twitter? - send a tweet?)


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106456
06/22/13 08:23 PM
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ok, the dealer hinted me that I might be able to get it for 10k$ before tax for gh160r, is it a good deal?

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106458
06/22/13 08:29 PM
06/22/13 08:29 PM
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Norbert Offline
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ok, the dealer hinted me that I might be able to get it for 10k$ before tax for gh160r, is it a good deal?


You need to answer that question yourself.

Check all other new 5'3 grands for 10k and then compare.

Let us know how things turn out after ...

P.S. While at it, why not compare to other new grands at 15k and above?

Norbert sick

Last edited by Norbert; 06/23/13 01:25 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106464
06/22/13 08:35 PM
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BTW, Jerry Lee Lewis is completely nuts IMHO....

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106494
06/22/13 10:01 PM
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Met him, and he is a about a half-bubble off plumb. Like Mickey better, he's probably the most likeable of the three cousins.

Jimmy...well, now...may be one of the sharpest business minds for an old guy, that I've ever ran across.

And he still plays pretty well.


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Norbert] #2106933
06/23/13 07:06 PM
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yamaha dealer quoted me a Cable nelson CN161 for $8800... the price seems to be good, although the sound isn't comparable to ritmuller.

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106950
06/23/13 07:36 PM
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I wouldn't buy a piano whose sound I didn't like, no matter how good the deal...


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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: terminaldegree] #2106961
06/23/13 08:13 PM
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but ritmuller is a bit over priced, now I am more inclined to a Kawai with carbon fibre action

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106964
06/23/13 08:22 PM
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Buy what makes you happy, not what you can get a great deal on.


2012 Kawai K3
Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106971
06/23/13 08:54 PM
06/23/13 08:54 PM
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
but ritmuller is a bit over priced, now I am more inclined to a Kawai with carbon fibre action


A piano is hardly "overpriced" at 40% off:

List price for Rit 160 R: 17,999 - 40% discount = 10,799

applying same discount for Kawai:

List price for GE30: 25,695 - 40% discount = 15,417

At above prices both pianos would be offering you exact same discount, none would be "overpriced".

Bear in mind that list price is not an indicator of quality as pianos have often very different costs of production.

Especially when rated in same tier of quality - personal reasons and preferences aside - it becomes quickly evident which one of the 2 may actually be the "better buy".

http://www.pianobuyer.com/spring13/45.html

Having said that, I personally think you should go with the Kawai. It's a very nice piano and it has features that clearly seem to appear to appeal to you.

Those choosing Ritmuller are usually attracted to the piano relatively quickly due to its amazing tonal and built quality.

By paying [much]more for a piano within same tier group, many shoppers today demand [and can get..] themselves a piano of still larger size, something which raises the bar of 'comparative shopping' by considerable margin once again.

Good luck in your choice - no 'mistake' here either way!

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 06/23/13 09:07 PM.

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Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2106994
06/23/13 09:53 PM
06/23/13 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zhengy4
but ritmuller is a bit over priced, now I am more inclined to a Kawai with carbon fibre action


Why do you think it is over priced and why the carbon fiber action?

Jonathan

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: Jonathan Alford] #2106999
06/23/13 10:21 PM
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I've heard that carbon fibre holds almost eternity and don't swell/shrink due to humidity.

Re: How well built is Ritmuller piano? [Re: zhengy4] #2107000
06/23/13 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zhengy4
I've heard that carbon fibre holds almost eternity and don't swell/shrink due to humidity.


I am no expert, i think the carbon fiber actions are just fine, but are not the only way to go. I believe Kawai is the only maker using them. That leaves a lot of other mfgs thinking wood is the way to go.

Good luck in finding the right piano for you.

Jonathan

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